More ships to leave Carnival Fleet.

[Esprit]

On 8/1/2020 at 5:41 PM, jeanlyon said:

Someone explain to me this need for a special atrium.  I don't get it.  Not being rude at all, but how much time do you actually spend in an Atrium?  I'm not sure I have ever noticed the Atrium at all on any ship.

I think if you visited the Atrium on Celebrity Edge you might “get it”. It has the Martini bar at its heart with an amazing light show to music late at night. There is always live music of all genres.

But if you love the Arcadia atrium then the one on the Edge will not be your cup of tea at all.

[molecrochip]

3 hours ago, Britboys said:

Absolutely right Damian. With the exception of Aurora & Arcadia, all the fleet next year appear to be sailing a very small number of repetitive itineraries. It seems quite a gamble to me as not everyone wants to go to the same old places. Maybe it is an experiment and will change for some of the fleet in 2022...

But that's intentional. P&O moved to what is known as tracked itineraries this year. It allows a more streamlined operation but also has benefits.

 

If you know that Iona is calling at X every Wednesday then you can arrange 30 different tours because you know that 3000 people want to tour. If its Iona one week then Aurora then next, local providers tend to only offer 20 tours because only 1200 people ever want to tour and operationally its easier to miss out every other week than it is to run tours under number.

 

They have thought carefully about which ship goes where. The two week Med cruise is still one of the most popular hence Britannia, Azura is to be the sunshine ship hence the med fly cruise (2021), Iona is the destination ship to capture the 7 day market hence the Fjords. Ventura has a roof over her pool so gets the cruises with more variable weather. The only one they don't now have covered is the Canaries and Gala2 probably would have solved that in 2022 (possibly as fly-cruise).

 

The two adults only ships have to cover all of these destinations plus the smaller destination ports so have to run a mixture of itineraries.

Edited August 24, 2020 by molecrochip

[Britboys]

3 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

But that's intentional. P&O moved to what is known as tracked itineraries this year. It allows a more streamlined operation but also has benefits.

 

If you know that Iona is calling at X every Wednesday then you can arrange 30 different tours because you know that 3000 people want to tour. If its Iona one week then Aurora then next, local providers tend to only offer 20 tours because only 1200 people ever want to tour and operationally its easier to miss out every other week than it is to run tours under number.

 

They have thought carefully about which ship goes where. The two week Med cruise is still one of the most popular hence Britannia, Azura is to be the sunshine ship hence the med fly cruise (2021), Iona is the destination ship to capture the 7 day market hence the Fjords. Ventura has a roof over her pool so gets the cruises with more variable weather. The only one they don't now have covered is the Canaries and Gala2 probably would have solved that in 2022 (possibly as fly-cruise).

 

The two adults only ships have to cover all of these destinations plus the smaller destination ports so have to run a mixture of itineraries.

I can certainly understand the commercial thinking behind this. It is already common amongst the big lines in both the Med area and the USA. On the other hand, those areas have a much bigger market which they draw from across Europe and the USA. In the Med, they draw on the market from both sides of the Atlantic and beyond. I suppose I just wonder how successful it will be when you are only drawing on the UK market and mostly sailing from Southampton. I guess time will tell.

I obviously come from a background of more traditional cruising and I do understand that perhaps the new market P&O are courting will be looking more at the ship as a resort hotel and therefore perhaps the destinations are less important...

[wowzz]

3 hours ago, molecrochip said:

But that's intentional. P&O moved to what is known as tracked itineraries this year. It allows a more streamlined operation but also has benefits.

 

If you know that Iona is calling at X every Wednesday then you can arrange 30 different tours because you know that 3000 people want to tour. If its Iona one week then Aurora then next, local providers tend to only offer 20 tours because only 1200 people ever want to tour and operationally its easier to miss out every other week than it is to run tours under number.

 

They have thought carefully about which ship goes where. The two week Med cruise is still one of the most popular hence Britannia, Azura is to be the sunshine ship hence the med fly cruise (2021), Iona is the destination ship to capture the 7 day market hence the Fjords. Ventura has a roof over her pool so gets the cruises with more variable weather. The only one they don't now have covered is the Canaries and Gala2 probably would have solved that in 2022 (possibly as fly-cruise).

 

The two adults only ships have to cover all of these destinations plus the smaller destination ports so have to run a mixture of itineraries.

Excellent post, describing the marketing strategy that maximises profits.The point about excursions is well made, as we know that these are a significant profit generator for any cruise line.

Whilst some posters complain about boring,  repetitive itineraries,  it seems to me that it is quite easy to find  a cruise that goes to to out of the way destinations,  but it won't be with P&O, and, you will have to pay for the privilege,  for the reasons described by Moley in his post.

 

[DamianG]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

Excellent post, describing the marketing strategy that maximises profits. The point about excursions is well made, as we know that these are a significant profit generator for any cruise line.

Whilst some posters complain about boring,  repetitive itineraries,  it seems to me that it is quite easy to find  a cruise that goes to to out of the way destinations,  but it won't be with P&O, and, you will have to pay for the privilege,  for the reasons described by Moley in his post.

 

 

Moley, Andrew and Wowzz are all correct in my opinion. We're now restricted to school holiday cruises when the prices are the highest and itineraries are limited but I'd rather take a cruise than a land based holiday and as P&O is what we can afford then so be it. It's probably inevitable that we'll end up cruising on a 5k capacity monolith of a ship one day if that is the only affordable option, but we'll always arrange our own days out in port and I don't ever foresee us staying onboard in port anywhere instead of going ashore for part or all of the day.

 

Looking back for photos for the "ABC of Ports" thread has really made me appreciate the opportunities we had in the past on lovely, smaller ships such as Artemis, Adonia, Oceana, Aurora and not least our favourite Oriana.

 

 

[mercury7289]

Reports saying Carnival Imagination on it's way to Turkey, to be scrapped.

 

Reading the report this seems to be extra to those already detailed.

 

Ship Crew News!

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, mercury7289 said:

Reports saying Carnival Imagination on it's way to Turkey, to be scrapped.

 

Reading the report this seems to be extra to those already detailed.

 

Ship Crew News!

Kind off.. they said 13 departures with two extra, cold, layups. They then announced two more ships to leave. Most people put 2&2 together but only yesterday was it confirmed.

[mercury7289]

Just now, molecrochip said:

Kind off.. they said 13 departures with two extra, cold, layups. They then announced two more ships to leave. Most people put 2&2 together but only yesterday was it confirmed.

Would this have been one of the cold layups?

 

[molecrochip]

Indeed together with her sister Carnival Fascination.

[molecrochip]

Breaking: The Administrator’s of CMV expected to announce tomorrow that it’s customer database and booking systems are sold to its former CEO.

 

Rumour has it that CMV has another company internally which bought/leased and operated the ships and then charged CMV for the privilege of using them.
 

This second company was apparently not part of the administration so it’s possible that Carnival had less to lose than previously thought. Who knows, might even mean that the P&O Australia ships will still move to the new CMV it its associated companies.

[terrierjohn]

7 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Breaking: The Administrator’s of CMV expected to announce tomorrow that it’s customer database and booking systems are sold to its former CEO.

 

Rumour has it that CMV has another company internally which bought/leased and operated the ships and then charged CMV for the privilege of using them.
 

This second company was apparently not part of the administration so it’s possible that Carnival had less to lose than previously thought. Who knows, might even mean that the P&O Australia ships will still move to the new CMV it its associated companies.

I believe the ship ownership issue was always known, but I had not seen anything about them not also going into administration.

[Dermotsgirl]

8 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Breaking: The Administrator’s of CMV expected to announce tomorrow that it’s customer database and booking systems are sold to its former CEO.

 

Rumour has it that CMV has another company internally which bought/leased and operated the ships and then charged CMV for the privilege of using them.
 

This second company was apparently not part of the administration so it’s possible that Carnival had less to lose than previously thought. Who knows, might even mean that the P&O Australia ships will still move to the new CMV it its associated companies.

My husband saw an on line article about this yesterday.

 

A lot of people are still owed a lot of money from the collapse of CMV.

 

I have fortunately been refunded through my credit card for the deposit I paid for my CMV cruise that I had booked for next year. I wouldn’t make any more bookings until a lot of dust has settled. 

[PrincessPete]

 

(I know this is not the CMV site but responding to the posts above......................)

This has all the hallmarks of a company going bust owing millions (a lot of which will be to small firms, not just the Banks) and restarting a similar product while not paying the debts of the original company.

I for one will not go anywhere near a cruise line that the former CEO sets up until I know all the CMV debts have been paid.

Fat chance of that happening, I think.

 

[Dermotsgirl]

33 minutes ago, PrincessPete said:

 

(I know this is not the CMV site but responding to the posts above......................)

This has all the hallmarks of a company going bust owing millions (a lot of which will be to small firms, not just the Banks) and restarting a similar product while not paying the debts of the original company.

I for one will not go anywhere near a cruise line that the former CEO sets up until I know all the CMV debts have been paid.

Fat chance of that happening, I think.

 

Agreed, walking away from the mess and starting again doesn’t sit right with me.

[pete14]

39 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Agreed, walking away from the mess and starting again doesn’t sit right with me.

Seems to be another example of an action of a company that is not illegal but should be. 

[terrierjohn]

26 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Seems to be another example of an action of a company that is not illegal but should be. 

I agree with you, but in this particular instance the insolvency was not down to bad management, and if a revived CMV can rise from the ashes then thousands of jobs could be saved, and the new company can then help to reward some of its debtors with new business, even if it has no responsibility for its historic debt.

Edited August 28, 2020 by terrierjohn

[molecrochip]

50 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree with you, but in this particular instance the insolvency was not down to bad management, and if a revived CMV can rise from the ashes then thousands of jobs could be saved, and the new company can then help to reward some of its debtors with new business, even if it has no responsibility for its historic debt.

Not so sure I agree John. Yes, Covid-19 caused them to have problems but when you start hearing of crew having the problems such as those in Bristol which required state authority intervention, something isn't going right.

 

I know a lot of cruise lines had issues with getting staff home due to Covid but all the big lines opened up their passenger cabins for sole-occupancy staff use, allowed staff to use a certain amount of guest facilities etc. Based on media reports, CMV didn't even appear to be providing their crew with industry acceptable standard working conditions.

 

 

[Presto2]

On 8/24/2020 at 7:07 PM, Esprit said:

I think if you visited the Atrium on Celebrity Edge you might “get it”. It has the Martini bar at its heart with an amazing light show to music late at night. There is always live music of all genres.

But if you love the Arcadia atrium then the one on the Edge will not be your cup of tea at all.

 

We used to love the atrium on Oceana and probably the only other ship that has that jaw dropping effect is the EDGE. We absolutely loved our time on her last year and will most definitely return. The light show etc was awesome and the whole place had a real buzz about it. It wasn't always busy though so sometimes quiet. Britannia's atrium was okish and had potential but we don't find any other P&O ship with a wow factor at all.

[Adawn47]

10 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

 

We used to love the atrium on Oceana and probably the only other ship that has that jaw dropping effect is the EDGE. We absolutely loved our time on her last year and will most definitely return. The light show etc was awesome and the whole place had a real buzz about it. It wasn't always busy though so sometimes quiet. Britannia's atrium was okish and had potential but we don't find any other P&O ship with a wow factor at all.

We all have likes and dislikes of the the various ships we've sailed on, but the one thing that has never bothered me are the atriums.  Aurora has a nice atrium,  so did Oceana, but to me there are much more important issues that contribute to the enjoyment of my cruise. I don't spend my cruise in the atrium.

Avril

[jeanlyon]

I have seen people say they wouldn't cruise on a ship because there was no decent atrium?  I mean what difference does it make.  I would rather have a lovely wide walk around prom deck that seems to have disappeared on the big ships, plus the tiered stern to sit out and have breakfast.  Azura put us off the big ones.

[terrierjohn]

12 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

We all have likes and dislikes of the the various ships we've sailed on, but the one thing that has never bothered me are the atriums.  Aurora has a nice atrium,  so did Oceana, but to me there are much more important issues that contribute to the enjoyment of my cruise. I don't spend my cruise in the atrium.

Avril

Avril, you cannot honestly compare Oceana's magnificent atrium  with that on Aurora, granted the giant lalique style wall covering is special, but it is set in such a plain and drab environment that does not make you want to linger.

[Adawn47]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Avril, you cannot honestly compare Oceana's magnificent atrium  with that on Aurora, granted the giant lalique style wall covering is special, but it is set in such a plain and drab environment that does not make you want to linger.

No, I'm not John.😉 I'm simply proving to you how unimportant the atriums are to the enjoyment of our cruises. 😃

[wowzz]

I'm another one that couldn't care less about an Atrium. They just take up space for no purpose.

Just give me a wide prom deck and I'm happy.

[tring]

14 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Breaking: The Administrator’s of CMV expected to announce tomorrow that it’s customer database and booking systems are sold to its former CEO.

 

Rumour has it that CMV has another company internally which bought/leased and operated the ships and then charged CMV for the privilege of using them.
 

This second company was apparently not part of the administration so it’s possible that Carnival had less to lose than previously thought. Who knows, might even mean that the P&O Australia ships will still move to the new CMV it its associated companies.

 

That is good to know from the Carnival position.

 

I thought it was necessary for people with details on the data base to give permission before a data base is handed over regards data protection laws, I am sure a lot of people, including us will not be happy about that considering who is buying it.  Perhaps we will be asked, otherwise we are thinking it sounds like a complain to the Information Commissioner is in order, unless I am wrong about that.

[PrincessPete]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

I agree with you, but in this particular instance the insolvency was not down to bad management, and if a revived CMV can rise from the ashes then thousands of jobs could be saved, and the new company can then help to reward some of its debtors with new business, even if it has no responsibility for its historic debt.

 

According to the original report "the CEO and his former Management team" plan to set up a new company...........my view is that, if not legally then surely morally, it DOES have responsibility for the historic debt.

It would be the same people operating the same company under a different name.