Meeting with VP and Cruise Industry Happening Today

[Anton]

Just announced:  Pence will hold a virtual conference today at 2pm with the cruise industry representatives.

[Yorkvillain]

I’d love to be a fly on the wall for that one.

[bobmacliberty]

14 minutes ago, Yorkvillain said:

I’d love to be a fly on the wall for that one.

 

Agreed.  If the CDC attends (not sure), you'll have 3 different groups with 3 very different motivations.  

[yogimax]

Interesting that it is closed to the press.  What happened to transparency?

[molly361]

What is the meeting supposed to accomplish? 

[sandebeach]

I hope the meeting goes as planned and that the cruise lines post an update on what happened at the meeting. 

Edited October 9, 2020 by sandebeach

[bigrednole]

Complete guess, but it is to get agreement to a common ground to be able to start some sailings from the US starting in December. It is to see how much the WH supports opening, how much the CDC is fighting to stop it, and see if there is any chance at a middle ground. I think the protocols that are in place are valid. The need to get testing at the port terminals. Assuming that happens, I think the other parts are easier:

 

1. Agree on ship capacity to start
2. Agree on protocols that have been proven safe in Europe already
3. Agree on a test run. Maybe each cruise line can sail 1 ship the first time including a small team from the CDC to evaluate. Maybe get a pass on the requirement to visit a foreign port. Have the first runs at 3 or 4-night cruises. Meet with the CDC team during the cruise to address and make recommendations on anything observed. It can be a gap in protocols, passenger issues, or whatever. At least these can be addressed in near real time. The findings can even be shared among the passengers over PA if something needs ship wide attention immediately like "The CDC has observed passengers not adhering to social distancing at the Lido Bar. Follow distancing procedures or be forced to quarantine in your cabin for the remainder of the cruise."

 

I think all passengers should be giving pool noodles too. Anyone gets within striking distance, you are free to hit them with the pool noodle.

Edited October 9, 2020 by bigrednole

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, bobmacliberty said:

 

Agreed.  If the CDC attends (not sure), you'll have 3 different groups with 3 very different motivations.  

 

They should all have the same motivation, getting cruising back on line when it's safe for all parties, not only the cruisers, but the people back home that could be infected by carriers. I know nothing is 100%. How and when they get there is anybody's guess.

[sandebeach]

45 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

Complete guess, but it is to get agreement to a common ground to be able to start some sailings from the US starting in December. It is to see how much the WH supports opening, how much the CDC is fighting to stop it, and see if there is any chance at a middle ground. I think the protocols that are in place are valid. The need to get testing at the port terminals. Assuming that happens, I think the other parts are easier:

 

1. Agree on ship capacity to start
2. Agree on protocols that have been proven safe in Europe already
3. Agree on a test run. Maybe each cruise line can sail 1 ship the first time including a small team from the CDC to evaluate. Maybe get a pass on the requirement to visit a foreign port. Have the first runs at 3 or 4-night cruises. Meet with the CDC team during the cruise to address and make recommendations on anything observed. It can be a gap in protocols, passenger issues, or whatever. At least these can be addressed in near real time. The findings can even be shared among the passengers over PA if something needs ship wide attention immediately like "The CDC has observed passengers not adhering to social distancing at the Lido Bar. Follow distancing procedures or be forced to quarantine in your cabin for the remainder of the cruise."

 

I think all passengers should be giving pool noodles too. Anyone gets within striking distance, you are free to hit them with the pool noodle.

Agree with your thoughts. But the pool noodle is the best of them!!!

[Jeff13]

3 hours ago, yogimax said:

Interesting that it is closed to the press.  What happened to transparency?

People can't be honest with transparency.  The follow up should be transparent.  But initial discussions need to be closed.  Once they come to some kind of understanding, then they can be transparent.  Of course, if they can not come to a common understanding, then the lack of transparency after makes it transparent that they can not agree on what comes next.

[davekathy]

21 minutes ago, Jeff13 said:

People can't be honest with transparency.  The follow up should be transparent.  But initial discussions need to be closed.  Once they come to some kind of understanding, then they can be transparent.  Of course, if they can not come to a common understanding, then the lack of transparency after makes it transparent that they can not agree on what comes next.

Must be a record for saying transparent/transparency in on post. 🤣

[PelicanBill]

Fantastic idea.  Google "social distance pool noodles" to waste some time.

 

 

 

[PelicanBill]

Given how the White House and the Task Force has stomped all over the CDC and Science I don't trust this meeting to produce a safe result.

 

I think we just have to see if the Cruise Lines can get permission to start, and then can manage to pull off what Disney has done.  Hear that Cruise Lines?  Look. at. Disneyworld. Been open for 3 months, no outbreaks traced back, no worker outbreaks.  Something is working there.  #1. Limit the passengers.  #2. Enforce masks and social distance. #3. Implement as much contactless experience as possible.  #4. No shows with packed seating.    All the stuff we already know makes sense.

[A&L_Ont]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

I think all passengers should be giving pool noodles too. Anyone gets within striking distance, you are free to hit them with the pool noodle.

That should be a prerequisite of every cruise.🙂

 

 

[Sunshine3601]

18 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Given how the White House and the Task Force has stomped all over the CDC and Science I don't trust this meeting to produce a safe result.

 

I think we just have to see if the Cruise Lines can get permission to start, and then can manage to pull off what Disney has done.  Hear that Cruise Lines?  Look. at. Disneyworld. Been open for 3 months, no outbreaks traced back, no worker outbreaks.  Something is working there.  #1. Limit the passengers.  #2. Enforce masks and social distance. #3. Implement as much contactless experience as possible.  #4. No shows with packed seating.    All the stuff we already know makes sense.

How does that even compare to living on a cruise ship for days at a time.    Just about everything disney is outdoors and you are constantly moving and doing things for the hours you are there for 1 or 2 days.   I happy they are open and it is working for them but there is no way to know that if someone got infected there.     

[Joseph2017China]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

How does that even compare to living on a cruise ship for days at a time.    Just about everything disney is outdoors and you are constantly moving and doing things for the hours you are there for 1 or 2 days.   I happy they are open and it is working for them but there is no way to know that if someone got infected there.     

Well, you live in PA, which is a state locked down for 7 months, and Florida is a state wide open, and staying pretty flat.  So, the risk will be around for a long time, and it would be up to anyone booking to decide to go or not to go.......I would have no problem going in November 

[little britain]

25 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

 

 

I think we just have to see if the Cruise Lines can get permission to start, and then can manage to pull off what Disney has done.  Hear that Cruise Lines?  Look. at. Disneyworld. Been open for 3 months, no outbreaks traced back, no worker outbreaks.  Something is working there.  #1. Limit the passengers.  #2. Enforce masks and social distance. #3. Implement as much contactless experience as possible.  #4. No shows with packed seating.    All the stuff we already know makes sense.

Or why not just look at the Italians who have been cruising successfully for 2 months... or the Germans....and follow their lead??🤷‍♀️

Edited October 9, 2020 by little britain

[scorpluvsdolphins]

21 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

Given how the White House and the Task Force has stomped all over the CDC and Science I don't trust this meeting to produce a safe result.

 

I think we just have to see if the Cruise Lines can get permission to start, and then can manage to pull off what Disney has done.  Hear that Cruise Lines?  Look. at. Disneyworld. Been open for 3 months, no outbreaks traced back, no worker outbreaks.  Something is working there.  #1. Limit the passengers.  #2. Enforce masks and social distance. #3. Implement as much contactless experience as possible.  #4. No shows with packed seating.    All the stuff we already know makes sense.

Do I understand you correctly?

 

 You want the cruise lines to start cruising because Disney World is doing it right, but want the White House to listen to the CDC who said, NO CRUISING until February 1st?

So, which is it?

[PelicanBill]

4 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

How does that even compare to living on a cruise ship for days at a time.    Just about everything disney is outdoors and you are constantly moving and doing things for the hours you are there for 1 or 2 days.   I happy they are open and it is working for them but there is no way to know that if someone got infected there.     

So I disagree that just about everything is outdoors.

 

You spend considerable time at your resort walking narrow corridors, get on and off transportation, in and out of stores, narrow paths in the parks, in and out of attractions that are mostly housed INSIDE buildings.  Have you see the walk into and out of Space Mountain or Splash Mountain?  All the theaters at EPCOT?  It was a herculean effort to replan thousands of points of social distancing and mark it and train staff to enforce it.

 

There is a lot to learn there.

 

[danv3]

7 minutes ago, little britain said:

Or why not just look at the Italians who have been cruising successfully for 2 months... or the Germans....and follow their lead??🤷‍♀️

 

I'm not sure we can replicate what's happening in Germany or Italy in the US right now.  Our infection numbers are multiple times worse.

[PelicanBill]

Just now, scorpluvsdolphins said:

Do I understand you correctly?

 

 You want the cruise lines to start cruising because Disney World is doing it right, but want the White House to listen to the CDC who said, NO CRUISING until February 1st?

So, which is it?

I didn't say that.  I actually believe there is more work for the cruise lines to do before they can cruise safely... I don't see how the 74 safety measures can be in place for even a few ships by December.  What I am saying is the Pence meeting (doesn't sound like it is a meeting with the rest of the task force, which concerns me) should be listening to the CDC about WHY they thing it is too soon.  I would have expected a compromise. Like January 1, IF the cruise lines can get all the changes in place and tested.  

 

For example.... if they decide same day testing is to be done... we need to see they can source the tests, hire qualified staff to administer, go to a long day of embarcation (2 days even) where you show up to be tested, and then you need to wait around for hours to get a result. One way to do this is accept no arrivals until after disembarcation is done so you can use the arrivals hall to wait. Many hours. how fun. 

This is just one example that I don't see fully worked out. too soon.

 

[ReneeFLL]

4 hours ago, bigrednole said:

Complete guess.........I think all passengers should be giving pool noodles too. Anyone gets within striking distance, you are free to hit them with the pool noodle.

Quit guessing and give me my darn pool noodle and I expect a pink one. 😂😂😂🍹

Edited October 9, 2020 by ReneeFLL

[Domino D]

5 hours ago, bigrednole said:

I think all passengers should be giving pool noodles too. Anyone gets within striking distance, you are free to hit them with the pool noodle.

 

The elevators will be a noodle battleground.  Thank the heavens I take the stairs.  

[Robert_Loblaw]

I would not be surprised if the industry asked the WH for some type of immunity to lawsuits arising from an outbreak on a ship.  I am not sure what form that might take, but I believe that the cruise industry is horrified of an outbreak, the bad press that would arise from another stranded ship offshore, and the hundreds of lawsuits that would inevitably be filed.

 

Once it happens on one ship, everyone will overreact.

[dswallow]

I think if the CDC shutting down cruises stands any longer, there's numerous more important on-land activities that also should be shut down for the same reasons. If the CDC isn't able or doesn't want to have those things on land shut down, they should not be shutting down the cruises.

 

I criticize thee CDC and whomever else is involved for the inconsistent restrictions being applied to cruise ships.

 

Especially when the cruise lines have been creating standardized ways to deal with the numerous issues that have been identified... any other industry doing this?

And the only reason cruise ships were ever really in the news with regard to COVID-19 was because on-land officials refused to permit any evacuation of anyone onboard for an pretty lengthy time, allowing invasive spreading of infections because, too, at the time, no one really knew how it spread or how readily it could spread. Part of the protocol is better isolation onboard AND being able to evacuate affected passengers to land-based isolation facilities so as not to spread it further onboard where isolation is/was less effective.