Changes Announced for Captain's Club Member Benefits

[Bruin Steve]

26 minutes ago, weregoingcruising said:

I would like to know the amount over the cruise fair is spent onboard by elite and above on photos, shore excursions and  ect.

You would think they might spend less for two reasons...1)  They get a lot of stuff others pay for as perks...and 2)  Cruise enough and it's somehow less special...the person who has gone on only one or a few cruises in life often wants everything as a memento.  OTOH, the person who cruises a lot likely has more disposable money whereby the one who saved their whole life for one cruise is likely on a tighter budget...

 

However, truth is it is VERY random...There are first time cruisers who spend a lot...and others that pinch pennies...and there are frequent cruisers who pinch pennies so they can afford to cruise more...and others for whom "money is no object".  Similarly, you will find frequent cruisers in inside cabins as well as in suites...and you will find newbie cruisers in every category as well...

 

Newbie cruisers do tend to use shore excursions more...while many frequent cruisers have figured out how to do private tours...But, many frequent cruisers end up going back to shorexes because of the lack of hassle in arranging them and no longer having the need to squeeze everything into each port.

 

So, overall, you can't generalize.

[MamaFej]

OT: @Bruin Steve, whenever I see you post, I think of my grandfather. He did undergrad at UCLA, but Law School at Georgetown and he golfed in Calabasas a few times a week. I wouldn't be surprised if you encountered each other professionally. He practiced mostly in LA. The beginning of your career was toward the end of his. He mostly practiced civil law, however. 

 

Thanks for your logical, insightful posts.

 

 

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

[kathynorth]

1 hour ago, emmamiller said:

So does Elite plus still get  240 min of free basic  internet? If not , this will be the final straw that breaks the camels back.

 

According to the Q&A you will still get your 240 min of free basic internet for cruises already booked outside of the AI program and also if you happen to land one of the after final payment cruise only rates (on a space available basis). 

[TeaBag]

I just object to having to pay for what I am used to getting as a perk for years of loyalty.  We used to ask the powers that be to create another tier between Elite + and Zenith.  How they must have laughed.

As ECC said "no way will I pay Azamara prices for the Celebrity experience".  Totally agree and have just booked our first Azamara cruise.

As for the lounge experience, we quit going there years ago because of the overcrowding.  If you went up to the top lounge at 4:30, there was a long line up even at that time, to get seats.  I always thought Celebrity could have corrected that by stopping the reciprocity.  You either have the capacity for the numbers of Elites and up or you don't.

[ECCruise]

1 hour ago, weregoingcruising said:

I would like to know the amount over the cruise fair is spent onboard by elite and above on photos, shore excursions and  ect.

Why is that even a factor?

Obviously, people who have sailed 50, 60, or 85 times like us do not feel the need to feed the kitty with unwanted additional photos, unsatisfying shore excursions, etc.

But, OTOH, we have put well over a $ Hundred Thousand into the kitty for fares.  Be tough to overcome that with photos or excursion profit.

[ORV]

1 hour ago, jg51 said:

.

Hello, "Bruin Steve."

If you really think that "It's NOT a matter of 'justice,'" then you should never be allowed to sit on a jury, because you do not understand the meaning of the word, "justice."

 

You know perfectly well that Elites (and above) are being cheated.  Otherwise, you would not have said, "Yes, that sucks."  People have to stick together and sound off in unison, to get things changed in a way that is fair and just.  We (jg51) have the guts to seek justice.  We just wish that you (and certain other folks here) had the guts too, instead of just lying down and letting "X" step on your and our heads.  From the point of the "little guy," who is not wealthy [such as us], this is a huge deal.  We cannot afford to cruise at the new fares -- and that's Celebrity's fault, not ours.

.

Are you for real? It's hard for me to fathom people with the logic you use. 

[Bruin Steve]

29 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

...we have put well over a $ Hundred Thousand into the kitty for fares...

The problem with that thinking is that, in exchange for all you've paid in cruise fares, you got to go on a lot of very nice cruises--which is exactly what you bargained for by buying the cruises.  Pay some money, go on the cruise.  That pretty much completes the contract.  The Captains Club program...and its perks are NOT part of your cruise contract.  It's an extra...a marketing ploy..."points" are not a material consideration of the contract...and the actual terms of the contract--EVEN IF accepting everything on the website and other marketing materials as if it becomes incorporated into the contract-- specifically guaranty no value to the points--saying the perks and benefits may be changed at any time.

[ECCruise]

11 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

The problem with that thinking is that, in exchange for all you've paid in cruise fares, you got to go on a lot of very nice cruises--which is exactly what you bargained for by buying the cruises.  Pay some money, go on the cruise.  That pretty much completes the contract.  The Captains Club program...and its perks are NOT part of your cruise contract.  It's an extra...a marketing ploy..."points" are not a material consideration of the contract...and the actual terms of the contract--EVEN IF accepting everything on the website and other marketing materials as if it becomes incorporated into the contract-- specifically guaranty no value to the points--saying the perks and benefits may be changed at any time.

Well aware of the contractual obligations.

But sometimes a relationship with a purveyor, even if it is a nameless, faceless entity like Royal, goes beyond that.  But, alas, that is Corporate mindset, 2020. 

And you cannot answer for me when I booked and paid for those sailings whether consideration of loyalty benefits didn't factor into it.  Don't put words in my mouth because that is the way YOU think.

[CHEZMARYLOU]

3 hours ago, emmamiller said:

So does Elite plus still get  240 min of free basic  internet? If not , this will be the final straw that breaks the camels back.

I don't have the time to read all the replies you got but I didn't see your question answered.  Yes, as Elite plus you will still get 240 minutes of free basic internet unless your cruise is booked under the all inclusive pricing.  If you have a cruise currently booked without the all inclusive and don't have internet as a perk, or if you book a cruise 90 days or less before sailing at a cruise only rate the free 240 minutes would apply. Hope this answers your question.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

Well aware of the contractual obligations.

But sometimes a relationship with a purveyor, even if it is a nameless, faceless entity like Royal, goes beyond that.  But, alas, that is Corporate mindset, 2020. 

And you cannot answer for me when I booked and paid for those sailings whether consideration of loyalty benefits didn't factor into it.  Don't put words in my mouth because that is the way YOU think.

When I was a kid and went to the bank with my mom, the tellers all had a jar with lollipops at the window.  I don't recall when those days left us but did the bank create a contract and thus broke it by taking away the lollipops?  By that reasoning one should no longer bank at that establishment.  

[kearney]

While I am not pleased with the changes... I am not even sure cruising will be fun anymore. If the cruise lines will need to continue with social distancing and mask wearing etc.... How could you have the nightly cocktail party? Frankly not sure how you will be able to maintain 6 ft at any of the bars etc. I suspect the new perks are done with continued CDC control over cruising and are not intended to encourage loyalty. I just hope that vaccines will allow us to return to normal cruising sometime next year... perhaps sometime in the second half of the year. I hope to learn if cruising is till fun before I make my final payment on my Nov 2021 cruise. I have been wanting to go someplace... anyplace for months... but the thought of heading to a resort and spending hundreds a day only to sit in a hotel room having room service is not appealing... I don't want cruising to feel the same way.

[Bruin Steve]

9 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

And you cannot answer for me when I booked and paid for those sailings whether consideration of loyalty benefits didn't factor into it.  Don't put words in my mouth because that is the way YOU think.

Quite to the contrary...First, though, yes, I do not know what YOU might be thinking...Your thought process might be completely irrational.  You might have chosen that cruise because you liked Celebrity's recipe for Chicken Parmesan--and, on that cruise, they never put it on the menu.  You might have chosen that cruise because you liked the pillow last time and this time they changed the pillows...Yes, people choose cruises based on many, many factors...But, in the end, you know those things are SUBJECT TO CHANGE.  But, that is NOT what I am talking about.

 

As a MATTER OF LAW, certain things in a CONTRACT are deemed "material consideration"...in the case of a cruise vacation, the PURCHASE PRICE is material consideration for the cruise line.  If you don't pay the price, they don't have to take you on the cruise.  On your side, the CRUISE itself is material consideration--and, read the small print, there are things about the cruise they can still change--like specific ports, time in port, order of ports, for example--Those specifics are, by definition, NOT material.  They may SEEM that way to you, BUT, BY LAW and according to your contract, they are NOT.

 

The Captain Club points and perks are, BY LAW, NOT MATERIAL.  It doesn't matter what YOU think OR what I assume you think.  It is the law--and centuries of legal cases as precedent--which establish what is material and what is not.

[cl.klink]

On 11/18/2020 at 11:34 AM, danv3 said:

 

To be fair, give the other lines some time.  I suspect X isn't going to be the last brand to devalue its loyalty program coming out of the pandemic.

 

Give it all some time.  When we hit the new steady state, probably a few years down the line, see what lanes are most open to what destinations.  There will still be pathways worth pursuing ... somewhere, in some ways.

 

- Joel

[ECCruise]

10 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

Quite to the contrary...First, though, yes, I do not know what YOU might be thinking...Your thought process might be completely irrational.  You might have chosen that cruise because you liked Celebrity's recipe for Chicken Parmesan--and, on that cruise, they never put it on the menu.  You might have chosen that cruise because you liked the pillow last time and this time they changed the pillows...Yes, people choose cruises based on many, many factors...But, in the end, you know those things are SUBJECT TO CHANGE.  But, that is NOT what I am talking about.

 

As a MATTER OF LAW, certain things in a CONTRACT are deemed "material consideration"...in the case of a cruise vacation, the PURCHASE PRICE is material consideration for the cruise line.  If you don't pay the price, they don't have to take you on the cruise.  On your side, the CRUISE itself is material consideration--and, read the small print, there are things about the cruise they can still change--like specific ports, time in port, order of ports, for example--Those specifics are, by definition, NOT material.  They may SEEM that way to you, BUT, BY LAW and according to your contract, they are NOT.

 

The Captain Club points and perks are, BY LAW, NOT MATERIAL.  It doesn't matter what YOU think OR what I assume you think.  It is the law--and centuries of legal cases as precedent--which establish what is material and what is not.

Thank you, Barrister. 🙂

What a  word salad saying the obvious.  And if I have to approach my travel with a constant eye to legalese, than I will find a different way to occupy my time.

 

Celebrity asked for my loyalty.  I gave it to them.  With a thousand cuts over the last 5 or 6 years, they have devalued that loyalty.  C'est la vie.  Not gonna worry about it.  Really. 

 

[ECCruise]

34 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

When I was a kid and went to the bank with my mom, the tellers all had a jar with lollipops at the window.  I don't recall when those days left us but did the bank create a contract and thus broke it by taking away the lollipops?  By that reasoning one should no longer bank at that establishment.  

You love telling us how much you sail in suites.

If you book said suite, and expect Luminae for dining, or the Retreat for a lounge, and they remove those benefits, does that mean you will still sail in a suite?  For the same price?

Edited November 22, 2020 by ECCruise

[LGW59]

Just now, ECCruise said:

Great analogy.

Not.

Well you can just replace lollipop with gelato 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

You love telling us how much you sail in suites.

If you book said suite, and expect Luminae for dining, or the Retreat for a lounge, and they remove those benefits, does that mean you will still sail in a suite?  For the same price?

Well since I don't have to face that right now, I can't give an answer to something that may or may not happen.  If/when it does, I will make the decision I think best, but I won't whine all over the place about.  And oh yes, the suite life!!!

[basenji56]

3 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Well you can just replace lollipop with gelato 

I keep agitating for an all you can eat gelato package...

 

The gelato person on the S class ships is like the Maytag repairman until the last day when everyone gets their free scoop.

 

[ECCruise]

4 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Well since I don't have to face that right now, I can't give an answer to something that may or may not happen.  If/when it does, I will make the decision I think best, but I won't whine all over the place about.  And oh yes, the suite life!!!

Please cite the whine.

And you really said "oh yes, the suite life!!!"  Really?

[LGW59]

Just now, ECCruise said:

Please cite the whine.

And you really said "oh yes, the suite life!!!"  Really?

Yes, really

[emmamiller]

And in my courtroom, whenever ANYONE uses superfluous/meaningless language such as  , "truthfully" or "with all due respect" or "to be honest with you" or "C'mon", "no offence", "at any rate", "dont take this the wrong way",  "if you will", for the sake of "transparency"....and so much more.....

 

I always have them start again without it....some find it  very difficult to do...as if their crutch is gone, as if just honest/plain  talk  is  not in their DNA. 

 

Apologies, as this is way off my original query, which was, Do Elites Plus ,  still get 240 minutes of internet as a perk of loyalty?

 

Anyone using superfluous language will be ignored. I say that with a smile. 

[C-Dragons]

4 minutes ago, emmamiller said:

And in my courtroom, whenever ANYONE uses superfluous/meaningless language such as  , "truthfully" or "with all due respect" or "to be honest with you" or "C'mon", "no offence", "at any rate", "dont take this the wrong way",  "if you will", for the sake of "transparency"....and so much more.....

 

I always have them start again without it....some find it  very difficult to do...as if their crutch is gone, as if just honest/plain  talk  is  not in their DNA. 

 

Apologies, as this is way off my original query, which was, Do Elites Plus ,  still get 240 minutes of internet as a perk of loyalty?

 

Anyone using superfluous language will be ignored. I say that with a smile. 

Sorry, but I just couldn’t help myself. It's been one of those days...

😁 With all due respect, I believe this is the answer to your question:

58 minutes ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

I don't have the time to read all the replies you got but I didn't see your question answered.  Yes, as Elite plus you will still get 240 minutes of free basic internet unless your cruise is booked under the all inclusive pricing.  If you have a cruise currently booked without the all inclusive and don't have internet as a perk, or if you book a cruise 90 days or less before sailing at a cruise only rate the free 240 minutes would apply. Hope this answers your question.

 

[ECCruise]

26 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Yes, really

Egad.  🙄

[weregoingcruising]

2 hours ago, ECCruise said:

Why is that even a factor?

Obviously, people who have sailed 50, 60, or 85 times like us do not feel the need to feed the kitty with unwanted additional photos, unsatisfying shore excursions, etc.

But, OTOH, we have put well over a $ Hundred Thousand into the kitty for fares.  Be tough to overcome that with photos or excursion profit.

Relax it was only a question I said it being a factor.

[TeaBag]

The way I read it, Emma, is why would you need your 240 minutes of free internet (which we loved) when you're already paying for it with the AI?

I would have no problem if Celebrity gave another option, cruise only, alongside AI. I don't want to wait for this till 90 days before sailing when all the good cabins are gone.