Quantum returning to port - possible coronavirus case onboard.

[Pratique]

24 minutes ago, biff-tannen said:

Self swabbing opens up the possibility of people not swabbing properly so I gather it wouldn't be advisable for laypersons. You sound like you work in a clinical environment so you know how to self swab properly. I certainly don't know how to swab myself at the moment.

No I get tested for a school where I teach part-time. It is unbelievably easy to do. They trained me how to do it in less than 5 minutes and gave me a single page of easy-to-follow instructions. 15 seconds in each nostril, place swab in vial. The lab can tell if you didn't do it properly. This is almost idiot proof. If you can brush your teeth you can do this too.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pratique

[biff-tannen]

7 minutes ago, Pratique said:

No I get tested for a school where I teach part-time. It is unbelievably easy to do. They trained me how to do it in less than 5 minutes and gave me a single page of easy-to-follow instructions. 15 seconds in each nostril, place swab in vial. The lab can tell if you didn't do it properly. This is almost idiot proof. If you can brush your teeth you can do this too.

 

 

How far up the nostril does one have to go? Knowing people, some might just swab some where / thing else (tongue, armpit, the sink) and be done with it. 😛

[Sail n Snow]

21 minutes ago, Ethanol95 said:

When will this be done?

Just an opinion that a test day of departure will be considered. Now that it was confirmed as negative I guess we’ll see what changes are actually made. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Sail n Snow

[Pratique]

11 minutes ago, biff-tannen said:

How far up the nostril does one have to go? Knowing people, some might just swab some where / thing else (tongue, armpit, the sink) and be done with it. 😛

As far as you would dare stick a Q-tip, i.e., not very far, just enough to get it moist. Like I said, the lab can tell if it was done right. Armpit/tongue/etc. won't cut it. But it's an honor system, you shouldn't get the sample from someone else. We've been testing thousands of students, faculty and staff for months and the testing is working. So I think doing it on a ship should be trivial. Even if cruising doesn't resume until the vaccine is widely administered I believe testing in one form or another will be required for quite some time thereafter.

[flyguyjake]

I thought they were just going to evacuate the positive passenger and NOT cancel the cruise? This is really stupid. Perhaps vaccines will be required. Qantas Airlines said they will make it mandatory for air travel once the vaccine is widely available. I support airlines, public transit, cruises, movie theaters, concerts, sporting events and any other mass gathering events to require vaccine proof.

[broberts]

RCI is taking a bit of a beating in the US media over this incident. Its made several news shows. Also, Stephen Colbert did a segment. It was not kind. Surprised me that the general media even noticed the story.

[mpk]

15 minutes ago, broberts said:

RCI is taking a bit of a beating in the US media over this incident. Its made several news shows. Also, Stephen Colbert did a segment. It was not kind. Surprised me that the general media even noticed the story.

 

It's been my observation that hatred for cruising comes from many places.  So I'm not surprised one bit.

[Coralc]

Most people don't follow cruising news like we do. It is not surprising that media only picks up the bad news. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Coralc

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, Coralc said:

Most people don't follow cruising news like we do. It is not surprising that media only picks up the bad news. 

 

Sadly, Bad news is good for ratings.  Been that way ever since TV was invented. 

[cured]

3 hours ago, flyguyjake said:

I thought they were just going to evacuate the positive passenger and NOT cancel the cruise? This is really stupid. Perhaps vaccines will be required. Qantas Airlines said they will make it mandatory for air travel once the vaccine is widely available. I support airlines, public transit, cruises, movie theaters, concerts, sporting events and any other mass gathering events to require vaccine proof.

I saw a news blurb this week that CLEAR and other companies are developing an app to show that you have been vaccinated.  It won't store any medical history in the app, just flash green to show proof of vaccination.

 

They are developing the app because they believe that most venues from small restaurants to large concerts are going to require proof of vaccination.

 

So you are not far off as CLEAR is also expecting people will have tobe vaccinated to go to a movie, fly, or goto a football game.

[biff-tannen]

1 hour ago, flyguyjake said:

I thought they were just going to evacuate the positive passenger and NOT cancel the cruise? This is really stupid. Perhaps vaccines will be required. Qantas Airlines said they will make it mandatory for air travel once the vaccine is widely available. I support airlines, public transit, cruises, movie theaters, concerts, sporting events and any other mass gathering events to require vaccine proof.

I guess the prevalent attitude these days is to be safe rather than sorry. 

 

Just read that the 83 year old covid suspect is not infected. 

[FionaMG]

35 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

Sadly, Bad news is good for ratings.  Been that way ever since TV was invented. 

Yep, and that, unfortunately, is true for all news shows. They are full of doom and gloom. I often feel they should be required to counter every bad news story they so gleefully broadcast with a good news one. I know; never going to happen. 

[biff-tannen]

It's confirmed that what happened yesterday was a false positive.

 

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/cruise-passenger-royal-caribbean-test-covid-19-negative-third-13741854

 

[Ocean Boy]

9 hours ago, Pratique said:

This is almost idiot proof. If you can brush your teeth you can do this too.

 

Well, there are a lot of people with a tremendous amount of tooth decay....😉😇

[DCGuy64]

5 hours ago, FionaMG said:

Yep, and that, unfortunately, is true for all news shows. They are full of doom and gloom. I often feel they should be required to counter every bad news story they so gleefully broadcast with a good news one. I know; never going to happen. 

No, it isn't going to happen, but you know what? We can choose to ignore them, which I do on a daily basis. I don't trust the media anymore. I make up my own mind by doing my own research and I leave the fearmongering to the craven, greedy media.

[Formula280SS]

Singapore government reports ~

 

As of 9 December 2020, 12pm, the Ministry of Health (MOH) has confirmed and verified that there are no new cases of locally transmitted COVID-19 infection. There are 6 imported cases, who had already been placed on Stay-Home Notice (SHN) upon arrival in Singapore. Amongst the new cases today, 5 are asymptomatic, and were detected from proactive screening and surveillance, while 1 was symptomatic. 

 

Overall, the number of new cases in the community has remained low, with a total of 1 case in the past week, who is linked to a previous case. 

• Cases in the community: 0

There are no cases in the community today. 

• Cases residing in dormitories: 0

There are no cases residing in dormitories today. 

• Imported cases: 6 (1 symptomatic, 5 asymptomatic)
  Amongst the 6 imported cases, 1 is a Singaporean and 2 are Singapore Permanent Residents who returned from Indonesia and India respectively. Another 3 are Work Permit holders currently employed in Singapore who arrived from Indonesia. They had already been placed on SHN upon arrival in Singapore and were tested while serving SHN.

CRUISE SHIP:

 

Prior to ~ 

 

Update on case from Royal Caribbean International’s Quantum of the Seas 

5.   An 83 year-old male Singaporean on board Royal Caribbean International’s Quantum of the Seas tested positive for COVID-19 infection this morning, and was immediately isolated. He had reported to the medical centre with diarrhoea, and as part of the protocols was tested for COVID-19 using the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) test equipment on board the ship. His original sample has since been re-tested at the National Public Health Laboratory (NPHL), and has come back negative for COVID-19 infection. A second fresh sample tested by NPHL has also come back negative. NPHL will conduct another test tomorrow to confirm his COVID-19 status.

 

***A final confirmatory test conducted by the National Public Health Laboratory (NPHL) on Thursday has confirmed that the 83-year-old male Singaporean on board Royal Caribbean International’s Quantum of the Seas does not have COVID-19 infection.***

6.   In the meantime, all the identified close contacts of the case have been isolated as a precautionary measure. As part of the routine post-arrival protocols, all passengers will undergo mandatory COVID-19 testing before they are allowed to leave the terminal at Marina Bay Cruise Centre. 

 

So, here's the question ~

 

What about the 6 "imported cases" and the response requirements and protocols for such?

 

We can follow their quarantine protocol for the 6, but what about the people on the planes trips of each of 6?  What about the contact tracing up until testing upon arrival?  Are all of the close contacts isolated as is for the cruise line passengers?  Are all of the other air passengers required to get the same mandatory testing before they are allowed to leave the airport as the cruise passengers are to leave the ship?

 

No, and no.

 

An entire Cruise Ship, its passengers and crew, have to go through a completely arduous and different response than any and every other case of the virus and the entire world-wide industry get another slap for, literally, what was originally and finally just a diarrhea experience of an 83 year old passenger.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

Well, there are a lot of people with a tremendous amount of tooth decay....😉😇

So cynical. Don't you want this process to be as easy as possible?

[masteradept]

1 hour ago, Formula280SS said:

What about the 6 "imported cases" and the response requirements and protocols for such?

 

We can follow their quarantine protocol for the 6, but what about the people on the planes trips of each of 6?  What about the contact tracing up until testing upon arrival?  Are all of the close contacts isolated as is for the cruise line passengers?  Are all of the other air passengers required to get the same mandatory testing before they are allowed to leave the airport as the cruise passengers are to leave the ship?

 

While I totally agree that cruise ships get an unfair rap from the media at times, I would like to point out that air passengers aren't having it any easier here. The current protocols are:

 

For five low-risk countries (Australia, New Zealand, China, Vietnam, Brunei) - PCR test on arrival and required to isolate in their own hotel rooms until the results are out. Must use contact tracing app while in Singapore

 

For a couple of medium-risk countries (Fiji, Hong Kong) - 7 day quarantine for all passengers (even with a negative test) at home or in a dedicated hotel room, as well as a PCR test.

 

For all other countries - All arriving passengers (including those 6) are tested, then bussed straight to dedicated hotels to serve a 14 day quarantine - this is really strict. PCR testing is also done before they're allowed to leave on day 15.

 

Just to give a bit of insight into the process here. I think in Singapore, at least, both the government and the media have been pretty fair - if anything the media has been positive. Of course, looks like the coverage differs elsewhere.

[DCGuy64]

Back in the day, on the DC metro system, there was an ad by, I believe, Delta Air lines saying something like “If you don’t want to take our shuttle to New York City at

7:00 am

8:00 am

9:00 am

10:00 am

11:00 am” etc. through something like 9:00 pm, “face it, you don’t want to go to New York City.” LOL

There are some in our society and even here on CC who, it seems, don’t want cruising to ever return to normal. When there’s a report of a COVID-19 outbreak on a cruise ship, they immediately chime in with “well, obviously cruising isn’t safe” or “they restarted too soon” or “no cruising until 2022 at the earliest,” or similar pessimistic predictions. But when a reported outbreak turns out to be a false positive, they never come back and say “I was wrong, maybe cruising is safe after all.” They’ll say they won’t cruise until there’s a vaccine, but after no fewer than THREE vaccines are literally on their way to be distributed (Moderna, Pfizer and AstraZeneca, in record time, no less), they come back with “they’re unproven,” “too many side effects,” not enough clinical trials,” etc. They’ll say cruise lines should practice social distancing and require masks, cruise line only-sponsored excursions, and daily COVID testing, and yet when they do just that, they say “not for me, that’s not a vacation.” I realize I am lumping a lot of people into one category, but you get my drift. However, if you say “I won’t cruise until there are no cases onboard, or a vaccine, or social distancing/masks,” and just that occurs but you still won’t go, then face it, you don’t want to cruise, period. Just admit it.

[suzyluvs2cruise]

13 hours ago, Pratique said:

No I get tested for a school where I teach part-time. It is unbelievably easy to do. They trained me how to do it in less than 5 minutes and gave me a single page of easy-to-follow instructions. 15 seconds in each nostril, place swab in vial. The lab can tell if you didn't do it properly. This is almost idiot proof. If you can brush your teeth you can do this too.

 

 

 

Can you share how the lab would know if you didn't do it properly? We've done the drive-through self-swab so I'm aware of how it works. 

[Formula280SS]

31 minutes ago, masteradept said:

 

While I totally agree that cruise ships get an unfair rap from the media at times, I would like to point out that air passengers aren't having it any easier here. The current protocols are:

 

For five low-risk countries (Australia, New Zealand, China, Vietnam, Brunei) - PCR test on arrival and required to isolate in their own hotel rooms until the results are out. Must use contact tracing app while in Singapore

 

For a couple of medium-risk countries (Fiji, Hong Kong) - 7 day quarantine for all passengers (even with a negative test) at home or in a dedicated hotel room, as well as a PCR test.

 

For all other countries - All arriving passengers (including those 6) are tested, then bussed straight to dedicated hotels to serve a 14 day quarantine - this is really strict. PCR testing is also done before they're allowed to leave on day 15.

 

Just to give a bit of insight into the process here. I think in Singapore, at least, both the government and the media have been pretty fair - if anything the media has been positive. Of course, looks like the coverage differs elsewhere.

 

Thank you for the information.  Hope to visit someday.

 

Yes, it does appear your air protocols are different (than ours in the states).  That is assuring.

 

The issue, I guess for me, is that air travel to and from and from within the states have almost been exempted from the "crushing punitive responses and measures" that have been pejoratively and biased against "non-air travel" cases (whether or not asymptomatic or not or at risk of death or not) that are assumed to have been attributed to restaurants, worshipers and now even inside homes. 

 

At the outset, millions of TSA counts of passengers in the tri-city NY area airports greeted the virus with open arms.  Remember, "we welcome people here" was the bloviation.  Months later, such areas ban anyone from other states with certain % positivity rates (again, with not a single consideration to the underlying data, such as on a thousand "new cases" there were no hospitalizations).  These same states, at the outset in late February, March and into April watched idly by as they let their Trojan Horse infection hot spot residents flee by the hundreds of thousands to second homes and warmer southern states.

 

The conduct has redefined hypocrisy.

 

So, again thank you.  I had no ill intent toward Singapore.  In fact, after 'going through the motions, they are allowing the cruising program to continue.  Also, the 83 passenger is fine (as stated before, IMO >65 and any with a serious comorbidity simply doesn't belong on a cruise ship at this time, pre-vaccine individually and widespread).

 

Our media won't report the above.  It doesn't fit the "narrative."

 

👍

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

So cynical. Don't you want this process to be as easy as possible?

I was joking, geeze. I'll be sure to only be serious with you from now on.

[Pratique]

13 minutes ago, suzyluvs2cruise said:

 

Can you share how the lab would know if you didn't do it properly? We've done the drive-through self-swab so I'm aware of how it works. 

I don't understand the details of how they do it, but there has to be a sufficient amount of mucus cells on the swab for the sample to be valid. I suppose if the swab is placed far enough down the throat it might work too but who's going to do that. I've seen a number of studies that have found self-swabbing is as effective as medically administered tests, so I'm optimistic that this is something that could be implemented on the ships. The system we've been using here has almost become second nature routine and I haven't heard of many issues with it. As with everything, it's evolving over time.

[broberts]

8 hours ago, FionaMG said:

Yep, and that, unfortunately, is true for all news shows. They are full of doom and gloom. I often feel they should be required to counter every bad news story they so gleefully broadcast with a good news one. I know; never going to happen. 

 

News shows are really only interested in ratings / clicks. It drives the content selected for broadcast. If any of these shows followed a fifth fifty rule, I suspect it would rapidly lose audience share. A sad comment on the state of our society.

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

I was joking, geeze. I'll be sure to only be serious with you from now on.

That's fine, but you were expressing pessimism before at the logistics of it.