CDC replied to my email

[drvmywifecrzy]

Good afternoon,

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

Cruising safely and responsibly during a global pandemic is very difficult. CDC and the cruise industry have a shared goal to protect crew, passengers, and communities and will continue to work together to ensure that all necessary public health procedures are in place before cruise ships begin sailing with passengers. The Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) provides a phased approach to resuming passenger operations in a way that mitigates the risk of spreading COVID-19.

Currently, CDC does not have enough information to say when it will be safe for cruise ships to resume passenger operations. The COVID-19 pandemic continues to spread around the world. There have been several recent instances of outbreaks of COVID-19 on board cruise ships in countries that have allowed passenger operations to resume, despite cruise ship operators implementing measures in an attempt to control the disease, highlighting the need for further action prior to resuming passenger operations.

 

Regards,

 

Maritime Unit

Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

eocevent349@cdc.gov

 

[pe4all]

Nice that they answered you.  It doesn't sound like U.S. cruises will be starting up as quickly as we had hoped due to outbreaks on ships already cruising- even with them putting safety measures into place.  Ugh.

[logan25]

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

I remember Hurtigruten during the early days.  What am I forgetting?

[BlerkOne]

Vaccines will go a long way to mitigating CDC concerns - they just need to see a track record before giving the all clear. Effective treatments will mitigate the rest.

[jerseyjjs]

16 minutes ago, logan25 said:

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

I remember Hurtigruten during the early days.  What am I forgetting?

Shipyard workers have tested covid positive on the Odyssey of the Seas.  They haven't even gone to sea trials yet.

[cruisemom42]

20 minutes ago, logan25 said:

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

I remember Hurtigruten during the early days.  What am I forgetting?

 

TUI (German line) had at least one recent outbreak. I think MSC also did.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-covid-outbreak-swiftly-dealt-with/47010

 

[mredandchis]

CDC's answer doesn't feel real hopeful and  we are all anxious to get back to cruising but there is a light at the end of the tunnel but it is a long tunnel.  There has been some positive news coming out hear and there.

 

One thing that continues to bother me is we all took notice to this plague because it was killing off certain groups of people.  SO the idea was to protect the most vulnerable and we locked down , we  wear masks and social distance.  That helped but wasn't the answer.  And it wont be the answer on a cruise ship, even half loaded.  

 

Vaccines have come out and the vulnerable groups are getting the protection they need.  But at this time we have only reached  35pct  herd immunity in the US.  And we are gaining about 1/2 a percent per day, 7 days a week.  The Israelis are way ahead of us yet are only at 62 percent.  They have had a rough time recently  with new cases.  Israel will show the world early how well these vaccines work.  So I am routing for them. But there is no guarantees, we all need to wait and see.  They should hit herd immunity early in April. The US wont be till early June and most of the port of calls will be later than that.  

 

 

 

 

[kennystwin]

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

1 hour ago, logan25 said:

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

I remember Hurtigruten during the early days.  What am I forgetting?

 

TUI (German line) had at least one recent outbreak. I think MSC also did.

 

https://www.cruisehive.com/cruise-ship-covid-outbreak-swiftly-dealt-with/47010

 

The Hurtigruten incident was last July which would seem to be recent by the pace at which the CDC is operating with their Conditional Sailing Order. As I read it (and I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch), the CSO addresses the issues we were bringing up in the beginning of the pandemic, cutting cruises short and returning passengers and crews safely to their homes. We know a lot more now about disease spread, testing, treatment, etc. Plus we have highly effective vaccines which will certainly have a major factor moving forward. But the cruise lines are still waiting on guidance from the CDC on test cruises which supposedly are a gateway to starting back. Guidance on vaccines like "All crew members will be vaccinated" would be a start.

 

I'd like to complement the Cruisehive article above for a factual presentation of theses cases. As the article points out, there will continue to be cases detected aboard ships, but the cruise lines and their medical personnel have the resources and processes in place to address these cases without shutting down the cruise. The CDC could learn a lot from the the processes in place in Europe.

[Honolulu Blue]

13 hours ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

Good afternoon,

 

Thank you for your inquiry.

 

Thanks for sharing.  And thanks to the CDC for replying to you.  The response FEELS generic and it FEELS like something that could have been written any time between November and now.  Have we really not come very far since then?  

[crewsweeper]

Well, the CDC just released another study similar to the one back in October that basically says, masks don't prevent spread, but wear them anyway.  So if they can't be clear on masks how in the heck do you expect them to be clear on when cruise ships can sail again?

[soccersharon]

49 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Well, the CDC just released another study similar to the one back in October that basically says, masks don't prevent spread, but wear them anyway.  So if they can't be clear on masks how in the heck do you expect them to be clear on when cruise ships can sail again?

Could you provide a link to the CDC article?  It seems that masks, when worn correctly, do prevent droplets from entering the air.

[groundloop]

48 minutes ago, crewsweeper said:

Well, the CDC just released another study similar to the one back in October that basically says, masks don't prevent spread, but wear them anyway.  So if they can't be clear on masks how in the heck do you expect them to be clear on when cruise ships can sail again?

 

I'm not sure what CDC study you're talking about.  I've seen article after article where they articulate the fact that mask wearing reduces the chance of getting infected.  The facts are quite clear that masks capture the respiratory droplets which Covid particles cling to.

[skridge]

Realistically in the next few month the vaccine will be available to anyone willing to get it and the cruise industry will do everything in there power to get vaccines for the workers and I believe the industry will be back up and running if they don't run out of cash first.  To bad people couldn't have taken a realistic approach to this the entire time.  It would have saved us from a lot of typing.

[evandbob]

2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Thanks for sharing.  And thanks to the CDC for replying to you.  The response FEELS generic and it FEELS like something that could have been written any time between November and now.  Have we really not come very far since then?  

The CDC reply looked like a standard form letter to me.  So yes, it may have been written months ago, and they just do a  edit for any updates.

[BoozinCroozin]

If this is real and not a canned answer (I think it is), the CDC just proved how little they know. It is the same thing they have been doing for an entire year. I am thankful covid was nice a much worse pandemic because the CDC has proven useless in managing. To declare it is unsafe to be in area of congested people, they agree airlines, WalMart, Home Depot, and many other places are "Covid-free" while other areas are Covid-infestation sites. To also declare that Covid can only be transmitted between the hours of 10PM - 6AM is even more ridiculous. Do you think a person with an ounce of common sense would think a pandemic is more contagious when fewer people are out than when they are slam packed in business is crazy. And to state that 50 people can't be in a restaurant but you can pack kids in a school is even worse.

 

I trust the CDC about as much as I trust the government saying they aren't raising taxes.

[florida eagle]

If anything we have learned in the past dozen years and more is trust is a difficult thing. We want the best but we are not in control. This virus has been here for more then a year at least and there seems to be a sluggish response with  a ping pong game of changes of what to do with it. The real reason is political. And everything else based on it is what is pushed on us and forced on us. So you either trust or do not trust the CDC, Fauci and the politicians. With the media in tow. To those who love cruising. Let the cruise companies control as much as they can and they use safe practices that develops. Do not let government interfere. The cost of everything will double for a several per cent more increase in safety above what the cruise lines will do at the start. We take cruises because they are more affordable. Don't blow it. 

[ProgRockCruiser]

24 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

If this is real and not a canned answer

Of course it is canned.

 

The CDC can't send out tailored responses based on knowledge gathered in the last week, constantly evolving.  Because next week/month the response would have to be different.

 

They have to make generic statements that are "true" but vague for long periods of time, and then a policy update causes a sea change in any future responses.  Anything else and they'd be dealing with constant complaints about "the shifting sands of public statements".

[crewsweeper]

1 hour ago, groundloop said:

 

I'm not sure what CDC study you're talking about.  I've seen article after article where they articulate the fact that mask wearing reduces the chance of getting infected.  The facts are quite clear that masks capture the respiratory droplets which Covid particles cling to.

I believe the October Study was a bit controversial. It did rely on people in a poll saying where they wore a mask or did not. However, you only have to look at the number of positive cases in places with mandatory mask polices like California and places with no mask or loosened mask restrictions to see that there is little difference in the positive test numbers. 

It's always been a semi-established fact that a person with a cold or flu or COVID wearing a mask doesn't spread the heavier particles.  But less proven or substantiated that wearing a mask with no symptoms protects you from getting an airborne virus.

There are videos around where people do vape tests with various types of masks, even double masks and they all leak.   Since airborne viruses don't discriminate where they go, unless you completely cover your face with a skintight membrane, some particles heavy or light could land on you if you are too close and in contact with an infected person for more than 10-20 minutes in an enclosed space.

[kdr69]

17 hours ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

There have been several recent instances of outbreaks of COVID-19 on board cruise ships in countries that have allowed passenger operations to resume, despite cruise ship operators implementing measures in an attempt to control the disease, highlighting the need for further action prior to resuming passenger operations.

My reply would be one that i see alot on Facebook these days....Fact check This reply is incorrect and is missing context that would help the viewer make a more informed decision.😏

 

[kdr69]

58 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

To declare it is unsafe to be in area of congested people, they agree airlines, WalMart, Home Depot, and many other places are "Covid-free" while other areas are Covid-infestation sites.

Agree... I think we can state with a fair degree of confidence that these new variants that are linked to travel did not arrive here via Cruise ship....just sayin😏

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 hours ago, crewsweeper said:

I believe the October Study was a bit controversial. It did rely on people in a poll saying where they wore a mask or did not. However, you only have to look at the number of positive cases in places with mandatory mask polices like California and places with no mask or loosened mask restrictions to see that there is little difference in the positive test numbers. 

It's always been a semi-established fact that a person with a cold or flu or COVID wearing a mask doesn't spread the heavier particles.  But less proven or substantiated that wearing a mask with no symptoms protects you from getting an airborne virus.

There are videos around where people do vape tests with various types of masks, even double masks and they all leak.   Since airborne viruses don't discriminate where they go, unless you completely cover your face with a skintight membrane, some particles heavy or light could land on you if you are too close and in contact with an infected person for more than 10-20 minutes in an enclosed space.

AFAIK, viruses don't (generally) emit from your body as individual virus phages.  They hitch a ride in your mucous membrane fluids - the finest of which would probably be the "mist" when you sneeze.  Which is why wearing a simple mask can be effective in containing the spread from an infected subject - it stops most of the big droplets, and some of the finer ones.

 

Wearing a mask helps a little bit in protecting from virus particles floating about in droplets suspended mid-air, but not super effectively.  So the trick is to stop them being suspended mid-air in the first place.

 

Staying six feet apart is the secondary measure that also helps.

 

Either way you look at it, I don't foresee mass numbers of cruisers wearing masks consistently while on board, so I expect the approach for resuming cruising will be to wait until masks are a moot point: herd immunity and/or only allow the vaccinated to cruise.

Edited March 10, 2021 by ProgRockCruiser

[jfunk138]

17 hours ago, logan25 said:

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

I remember Hurtigruten during the early days.  What am I forgetting?

https://www.cruiselawnews.com/2021/02/articles/disease/cruise-passenger-tests-positive-for-covid-19-on-msc-grandiosa/

"there have been over 200 passengers and crew members who tested positive for COVID-19 during European sailings since cruising was suspended from U.S. ports last year. The cases involved MSC Cruises, Costa Cruises, TUI Group, SeaDream, Hurtigruten and a number of smaller river cruise ships. (You can see a partial list here). The last outbreak occurred on the Mein Schiff 2 ship operated by the TUI Group just last week."

[SeaHunt]

18 hours ago, logan25 said:

Which recent instances aboard cruise ships?

 

If you haven't already, you might read this recent post by cc member Happygcruiser over on the MSC board who was sailing on the MSC Grandiosa when a member of their party was suspected of being exposed to a positive case onboard, and how it was handled by the cruise line. Very interesting!

 

 

 

[Cafedumonde]

All I can say is the upside of this entire experience is I know a lot more about the overpaid people at the cdc and the government in general.  And it is not pretty.  They were better off staying all wizard of oz instead of going emperor has no clothes.  I personally had no idea. 

[ccd228]

I hope the CDC does not expect cruising to happen with no Covid cases appearing. There are many virus people get on cruises.  Colds, Flu, Norovirus etc can happen on any given cruise. Now Covid will be added to the list.  The vaccine is out there. We all have to be responsible enough to decide if we are more at risk when deciding to cruise or not.