The corporate view as to the future of cruising

[wowzz]

40 minutes ago, Ombud said:

So I wonder how they're going to deal with those who've gotten the Janssen vaccine 

Not yet available over here, so not currently an issue. However, as you normally receive a card showing the date, vaccine type and batch code, it will be easy to let those who have had a single dose vaccine to board.

[Mary229]

CCL, corporate, is hosting another webinar this coming week where many of the health protocols may be addressed.  Google it, I don't know if registration is still open

 

2021 WTTC/Carnival Corporation Global Scientific Summit on COVID-19 

on 

April 15th 

 

 

[Ombud]

3 hours ago, wowzz said:

Not yet available over here, so not currently an issue. However, as you normally receive a card showing the date, vaccine type and batch code, it will be easy to let those who have had a single dose vaccine to board.

Thanks. I'm pretty sure that PCL will follow suit when we are let up ..... hopefully by my Australia December 2021 cruise

[mjmalino]

On 4/10/2021 at 9:36 AM, mv_hana said:

This is very disappointing. I understand the logistics are extremely difficult regarding the crew. However, I'm curious how Royal Caribbean and Norwegian managed to insure vaccinations for their crew members. We're booked in 2022, but just testing the crew would not be acceptable. Vaccinations for all or we will have to make other plans.

I understand. Honestly, when I heard about Royal Caribbean and Norwegian I thought the same thing. The one thing I keep reminding myself is that the webinar that I saw was about 3 weeks prior to the announcements, so a lot could have changed.

[SargassoPirate]

I see lack of mandatory vaccinations for crew and PAX as deal breaker for me.  Not that I am terrified of the virus, but because of the potential for a disrupted cruise, not being allowed to port, wearing masks on board, and less carefree cruise experience.

 

I'm rescheduling cruises to 2023 when hopefully things will be back to normal.

[capriccio]

23 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

I see lack of mandatory vaccinations for crew and PAX as deal breaker for me.  Not that I am terrified of the virus, but because of the potential for a disrupted cruise, not being allowed to port, wearing masks on board, and less carefree cruise experience.

 

I'm rescheduling cruises to 2023 when hopefully things will be back to normal.

We agree.  We have a July 2022 Caribbean cruise booked (replacing the June/July 2020 cruise that was canceled) with our family.  We have all agreed that we will cancel before final payment if mandatory vaccinations for crew and passengers are not required.  We are hoping that our 7 1/2 and almost 3 year old granddaughters will be vaccinated by then or we will cancel.  We also have an April 2023 Round Australia cruise booked with my 3 siblings and spouses.  We have all likewise agreed that vaccinations are mandatory for all. 

[caribill]

On 4/11/2021 at 6:42 AM, Mary229 said:

CCL, corporate, is hosting another webinar this coming week where many of the health protocols may be addressed.  Google it, I don't know if registration is still open

 

2021 WTTC/Carnival Corporation Global Scientific Summit on COVID-19 

on 

April 15th 

 

 

 

 

Some takeaways from the Summit:

 

Vaccines can reduce number of people with who have asymptomatic Covid-19.

 

Vaccines probably reduce ability to spread the virus.

 

Not known how long protection lasts either with vaccine or having had Covid-19.

 

Mayo Clinic tests everyone who comes on the campus. 95% of positives are with those who have not been vaccinated.

 

Because those who have been vaccinated can still catch the virus, masks are still needed to be used as appropriate after being vaccinated.

 

Cleaning surfaces can reduce spread of other viruses.

 

Very little regular flu this flu season.

 

PCR test still better than antigen test, but can be positive weeks after having had Covid-19, detecting remnants of the infection.

 

Must still test people who have been vaccinated as they can still catch the virus.

 

Even most accurate tests can have false positives as well as false negatives.

 

No commercial antibody test can tell if you are protected.

 

- - -

 

Do not know if vaccines will provide longer immunity than having had the disease.

 

Not known if there will be different lengths of immunity with different vaccines.

 

Data so far says if vaccinate a pregnant woman there is no adverse affect foir the baby.

 

The very rare known vaccine side effects can be effectively treated if treated in timely manner.

 

Taking the vaccines can protect you against the most extreme outcomes even if you do then contract the virus.

 

The goal is not to get Covid in the first place, but if you do there are many improvements in treatment.

 

Approved therapies include remdesivir and Dexamethasone. There are also some Emergency Use Authorization therapies such as use of monoclonal antibodies.

 

Antibody therapies are very expensive.

 

Up to 80% of infections are asymptomatic and thus receive no treatment.

 

One of the Panelists: Vaccinated and is still wearing masks, not eating inside in restaurants, avoiding crowds, limited travel (none internationally).

 

- - -

 

Living in a world of Covid-19:

 

We should all get vaccinated (unless there is a medical reason not to). Until vaccination is widespread, must still have restrictions.

 

The more opportunities that remain to be infected, the more opportunities there are to have the virus mutate.

 

Even when vaccinated, must still wear masks as you can still catch the virus and pass it on to others even if at a much lower probability.

 

Israel has reached 80% vaccinated, nearing herd immunity.

 

Individuals and countries have not always done their best to reduce the spread of the virus (masks, lockdowns, etc.)

 

So much more knowledge now than before as to how to prevent transmission and treat the infected.

 

Fully vaccinated means both doses if two are required, not just one.

 

In USA no need for Covid test when traveling within the country. If returning from international trip, should still get tested 5 days after return even when tested before flying back to USA.

 

Getting vaccinated is not a “get out of jail free card.” Means lower risk of severe infection if you do get the virus.

 

Those who have had Covid in the past should still get vaccinated. Vaccines give better protection than having had the disease.

 

All the current vaccines dramatically reduce the need for hospitalization or death even though they have different efficacies in preventing infection. Thus any EUA vaccine is a good vaccine.

 

Ideal situation is everyone gets the vaccines with fewest serious side effects, but even though vaccines with the rare serious side effects are better than no vaccine as long as you look for any signs of these effects in time to be treated for them.

 

World has changed and will not return to what it was pre-Covid.

 

Expect a need for enhanced support programs by employers for employees returning to the office after a long period of dealing with issues such as home school and caring for ill relatives.

 

When should I test, how often should I test and which test should I take?

o Vaccinated or not, if any symptoms consistent with Covid-19, get tested.

o If fully vaccinated, not much benefit of being tested if no symptoms.

o Unvaccinated should have periodic testing.

o Testing is not a substitute for masking and distancing.

o PCR test is very, very sensitive and will give positive result even if dead virus detected. More expensive than antigen tests and longer turnaround time.

o Antigen tests not as sensitive and may have more false negatives, but very likely that a positive result is accurate.

 

For international flights, best practice would be a negative test result before travel and an antigen test (15 minutes for a result) after arrival.

 

It would be great to have acceptable proof of vaccination (“vaccine passport”), but not practical for USA. More practical in countries with a national health care system that has vaccination records in a central database.

 

Some countries are more ready to receive travelers than other countries and are developing protocols to do so.

 

- - -

 

The World Travel and Tourism Council will have a three day summit April 25-27 about travel after Covid. All are invited to view virtually by registering at https://wttc.org/About/Events-Webinars/Global-Summit

 

[Mary229]

@caribill  Thanks for your synopsis.  I missed the last segment and will watch when they send the link for the recording.  

[caribill]

It is a relatively low percentage of people, but of the about 77 million fully vaccinated people in the USA, almost 6000 are known to have contracted the virus and about 400 have been hospitalized.

 

Covering all vaccine eligible age groups, those who contracted the virus after being vaccinated were about 40% age 60 and above.

[CalLuvsCrusingToo]

Many of those seniors were probably frolicking like spring breakers after getting vax.😐

 

We are fully vaccinated too, & Not spring chickens.  We still mask everywhere & doing same

as what weve been doing to stay protected & protect others.

 

Get vaccinated, but gotta keep your common sense.  This thing isn't under control.

Be safe out there.

 

 

[Loreni]

I believe I read above that CCL does not want to be held to a higher standard than the rest of the travel and entertainment industry.

 

But is there any other industry that poses a higher threat to disease spread than the cruise industry?  
 

Is there any other corporation which seeks to bring together UNVACCINATED passengers from all over the world with UNVACCINATED crew from all over the world and place them in a confined space for days and weeks at a time.  And then sail to ports all over the world with local populations that may not be fully vaccinated?  All while new variants are occurring continuously? It seems the very least CCL could do is require all passengers and crew to be vaccinated.

 

It boggles the mind that CCL would even contemplate not requiring vaccines for their passengers AND crew.  Especially when other cruise lines are.  Clearly other lines found it workable and not “impractical”.  It is almost as if CCL doesn’t want the added expense of securing  vaccinated crew because it would somewhat reduce profits.  Frankly it’s unconscionable.  And if it another outbreak occurs in a CCL ship because they implement this policy, I believe they are finished.  People have already noticed that CCL ships were front and center when this pandemic began.  People have noticed that CCL was slow to halt cruising with tragic results.  People have not forgotten the heart hands in Japan.

 

There are other cruise lines.

 

There are other forms of leisure travel.

[AF-1]

Loreni,  I understand your feelings.  Maybe you can still cruise with a line that requires pax and crew to be vaccinated

[caribill]

41 minutes ago, Loreni said:

 It seems the very least CCL could do is require all passengers and crew to be vaccinated.

 

It boggles the mind that CCL would even contemplate not requiring vaccines for their passengers AND crew.  Especially when other cruise lines are.  Clearly other lines found it workable and not “impractical”.  It is almost as if CCL doesn’t want the added expense of securing  vaccinated crew because it would somewhat reduce profits.  Frankly it’s unconscionable. 

 

 

 

Princess had not made any statement for regular cruises as to if vaccines would be required or not required for passengers or crew. Thus it is to early to be concerned about the official policy.

 

For the "Seacations" that Princess is marketing in the UK all passengers must be vaccinated. The crew will not have to be to be vaccinated but will have been initially quarantined and will be tested regularly. I suspect the reason the crew is not required to be vaccinated is because WHO approved vaccines are not yet available to many of them.

 

As to the other cruise lines that indicate their crews must be vaccinated, I have not seen one cruise line that actually says how they are sure this can be accomplished.

 

I, too, would prefer that at the least all passengers eligible for the vaccine should be vaccinated. However, I have yet to see any way a cruise line can verify that  passengers from most countries have been vaccinated, including passengers from the USA.

 

Even for the UK "Seacations" Princess has not yet said what proof of vaccination will be acceptable.

[2 cruises a year]

41 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

Princess had not made any statement for regular cruises as to if vaccines would be required or not required for passengers or crew. Thus it is to early to be concerned about the official policy.

 

For the "Seacations" that Princess is marketing in the UK all passengers must be vaccinated. The crew will not have to be to be vaccinated but will have been initially quarantined and will be tested regularly. I suspect the reason the crew is not required to be vaccinated is because WHO approved vaccines are not yet available to many of them.

 

As to the other cruise lines that indicate their crews must be vaccinated, I have not seen one cruise line that actually says how they are sure this can be accomplished.

 

I, too, would prefer that at the least all passengers eligible for the vaccine should be vaccinated. However, I have yet to see any way a cruise line can verify that  passengers from most countries have been vaccinated, including passengers from the USA.

 

Even for the UK "Seacations" Princess has not yet said what proof of vaccination will be acceptable.

Well said, I think that Princess is being wise by not making any commitments yet.  This is a once in a hundred year event.  No play book or rules to go by.  And the new rules and plays keep changing.  My guess is that behind the scenes, Princess is planning to cover as many possibilities as possible, and when a final rule book comes out, they will have their plays ready to go.  The constant changing of promises as the rules change, is more frustrating than waiting for the final answer.

Edited April 20, 2021 by 2 cruises a year

[caribill]

4 hours ago, 2 cruises a year said:

 The constant changing of promises as the rules change, is more frustrating than waiting for the final answer.

 

Agree

[wowzz]

8 hours ago, Loreni said:

There are other cruise lines.

Name them.