Florida sues to reopen cruise ports

[TeeRick]

11 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

My proposition was purely hypothetical.  My point is at some point the CDC has to stand behind the efficacy of the vaccines.  Once that is affirmed then cruising should commence.  Even the CDC does not have the right to shut down cruising indefinitely.  It seems apparent that the CDC needs to come up with a plan as well.  This is turning into an old fashioned standoff. One side is waiting for the other to blink.

I am pretty sure the CDC acknowledges the efficacy of the vaccines.  It is hard for us avid cruise-a-holics to be patient after more than 1 year operational shutdown when most other things are at least partially open.  The cruises starting in June from non-US ports will perhaps create the data (one way or the other) for the CDC to change the NSO.  Or not.   These cruises play directly into the cards that the CDC is now holding.  No need to actually change anything until they see what happens with these early cruises.  So the cruise industry blinked first in the staring contest.  If they can safely operate these initial cruises then there will be heat on the CDC to move forward.  But if any of these early cruises turns back with outbreaks even with vaccines, then the CDC has positioned themselves in the right spot.  

[Homosassa]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

I am pretty sure the CDC acknowledges the efficacy of the vaccines.  It is hard for us avid cruise-a-holics to be patient after more than 1 year operational shutdown when most other things are at least partially open.  The cruises starting in June from non-US ports will perhaps create the data (one way or the other) for the CDC to change the NSO.  Or not.   These cruises play directly into the cards that the CDC is now holding.  No need to actually change anything until they see what happens with these early cruises.  

As I posted yesterday I went ahead and made final payment on a cruise leaving from Miami on July 24.

 

Part of the reason I did so was that the cruise line, MSC, has been operating cruises on the Grandiosa in Europe and has effective measures in place for a non-vaccinated passenger population.

 

The Grandiosa is "Meraviglia" class and I am booked on the Meraviglia.

 

My confirmation from MSC today had a statement that MSC is actively working with the CDC to restart cruising from the US. Data from their European cruises is being used.

 

Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Ken the cruiser]

I'm wondering based on the progress described in the Seatrade article today by portside organizations in the key Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Cape Canaveral port cities, what other major conflicts would be necessary to overcome in the CDC Phase 2 Technical Instructions?

 

Also consider CDC's recent modification to their cruise travel guidance which seems to correlate with the COVID testing protocols associated with the new non-US home port cruises in the Caribbean starting in June. To me it would appear things are starting to come together. But then, I'm an optimist. 🙃

 

Preparations to resume cruising at key Florida homeports

 

His Tallahassee discussions followed meetings with local government officials and industry executives in Miami, Fort Lauderdale and Cape Canaveral. During those, he was shown the preparations to support cruise resumption.

 

According to an FMC release, it was demonstrated that each port was ready to provide onsite testing; that they have protocols and plans in place to evacuate, isolate and treat passengers in need of medical assistance; and that they have coordinated with appropriate authorities and partners to provide vaccinations.

 

CDC: For those who do cruise, testing before and after, even if vaccinated

 

People who decide to cruise should get tested one to three days before travel and after their trip, even if they are fully vaccinated.

 

In addition to testing, passengers who are unvaccinated should self-quarantine for seven days after cruise travel, even if they test negative. If they do not get tested, they should self-quarantine for 10 days. 

 

Passengers who are fully vaccinated with an FDA-authorized vaccine do not need to self-quarantine after cruise travel.

 

FMC's Sola suggests Port Canaveral for crew vaccinations (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

CDC urges against cruising, advises testing and more for those who go (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

16 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

If A then B and not C.  You connections are not logical.

[Ride-The-Waves]

16 hours ago, mom says said:

Port size is one thing. Are they primarily cargo ports? Having enough passenger terminals is another thing altogether.

They are deep water ports  more than capable of handling cruise ships.  Set up some large tents or temp buildings until more permanent structures are constructed.  Would put a huge damper on Florida's screwing with cruise safety.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

7 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

If A then B and not C.  You connections are not logical.

You will notice I said...”I ALMOST wish”.  

[morechances]

17 hours ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

And, according to the governor, the ship docking in Florida could not ask for proof of vaccination. So it can never happen.

[K.T.B.]

35 minutes ago, morechances said:

And, according to the governor, the ship docking in Florida could not ask for proof of vaccination. So it can never happen.

 

I'd love to see him actually try to enforce it.  Better chance of telling people to not use passports to fly to another country.

[NMTraveller]

37 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

I'd love to see him actually try to enforce it.  Better chance of telling people to not use passports to fly to another country.

Agreed.  It is outside of his jurisdiction.

 

 

[naturelovergirl]

We love cruising... and live in Florida.

We absolutely support getting people back to work here in Florida. This time has been economically and emotionally devastating for workers in specific business fields- not limited to cruise ships, hospitality, the performing arts, and every single business which supports and aids tourism. There is no doubt that certain industries have been adversely affected by the pandemic more than others.
I'm also an advocate for fully vaccinated cruises...
I think both getting people back to the jobs they love and need can fit together with the cruise lines starting back with fully vaccinated crew and guests.

Our personal hope is that we can find a way back as a state to both have our business... and do it safely and effectively.
Time will tell.
 

[Ken the cruiser]

Looks like CDC met with White House staff and cruise line executives on Monday. At least it's a start.

 

CDC Meets with Cruise Industry, White House as Calls for Restart Grows (cruisecritic.com)

[nocl]

20 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Looks like CDC met with White House staff and cruise line executives on Monday. At least it's a start.

 

CDC Meets with Cruise Industry, White House as Calls for Restart Grows (cruisecritic.com)

An article written to indicate that progress has been made yet the key phrase is 

 

CDC Meets with Executives, Doubles Down on Guidance

[4774Papa]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:47 PM, Ken the cruiser said:

Looks like the Florida senators and one from Alaska have decided to take the congressional approach to help get cruises started back up in July.

 

Senators Introduce Bill Allowing To Restart Cruising by July 4 - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

https://www.cruisehive.com/uk-releases-framework-for-resuming-international-cruises/49543?fbclid=IwAR0m0I6LCIJ_W_j4YqN__UYZKortZXsRA3SQ0DH08DXKGokI7qoZ-KWiino

 

[Ken the cruiser]

46 minutes ago, nocl said:

An article written to indicate that progress has been made yet the key phrase is 

 

CDC Meets with Executives, Doubles Down on Guidance

Hey, I'm looking at the cup half full. At least there is a record of them meeting together. That's progress, isn't it? 😉

[nocl]

19 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hey, I'm looking at the cup half full. At least there is a record of them meeting together. That's progress, isn't it? 😉

If the cruises make a serious attempt to put forth what they consider reasonable and put forth an actual position instead of just criticizing the CDC framework.

 

MSC appears to be doing that based upon their sailings in Europe. RCL and CCL lines not so much.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

An article written to indicate that progress has been made yet the key phrase is 

 

CDC Meets with Executives, Doubles Down on Guidance

 

OK. I realize the article is posted on the news side of our host, but really?

 

"The CDC has come under increasing criticism"? Really? Other than on this board? Three Senators (not even 4!) and a handful of very amateurish CEOs is really just sound and fury.

 

"cruise industry forcefully pushed back on the CDC"? I've seen forceful pushback on government policy. The cruise industry hasn't even hit DEFCON 5 on pushback. When they start dragging out mothers who can't feed their kids because of losing their jobs, they're making headway. But most of those mothers aren't in the US... (Not all, but they're not even playing that card!)

 

"in response to a question about the impact that the cruise ban was having on Alaska". 
The ultimate cruise ban impacting Alaska is originating in Canada. Even if everything on the US side changed, without significant immigration and taxation relief, none of the cruise lines are going to Alaska this year.

 

"The CRUISE Act also requires the CDC to issue recommendations for how mitigate the risk of COVID-19 aboard cruise ships by June 1." Done. The industry has chosen to ignore, and not to formally request change. 

 

Submit plans in accordance with the guidance. State where you don't believe you can meet the guidance. Let the regulators make a decision. And would someone please explain how the interagency actually works to Aaron Saunders?

 

/rant

[nocl]

29 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

OK. I realize the article is posted on the news side of our host, but really?

 

"The CDC has come under increasing criticism"? Really? Other than on this board? Three Senators (not even 4!) and a handful of very amateurish CEOs is really just sound and fury.

 

"cruise industry forcefully pushed back on the CDC"? I've seen forceful pushback on government policy. The cruise industry hasn't even hit DEFCON 5 on pushback. When they start dragging out mothers who can't feed their kids because of losing their jobs, they're making headway. But most of those mothers aren't in the US... (Not all, but they're not even playing that card!)

 

"in response to a question about the impact that the cruise ban was having on Alaska". 
The ultimate cruise ban impacting Alaska is originating in Canada. Even if everything on the US side changed, without significant immigration and taxation relief, none of the cruise lines are going to Alaska this year.

 

"The CRUISE Act also requires the CDC to issue recommendations for how mitigate the risk of COVID-19 aboard cruise ships by June 1." Done. The industry has chosen to ignore, and not to formally request change. 

 

Submit plans in accordance with the guidance. State where you don't believe you can meet the guidance. Let the regulators make a decision. And would someone please explain how the interagency actually works to Aaron Saunders?

 

/rant

Since the cruise lines are asking passengers to send letters to congress and since I live in the district of the Chairman of the Coast Guard and Maritime subcommittee, I decided to send him a letter saying that the cruise lines are complaining about the CDCs technical document why not use his committee to ask them to submit their plan about what they are willing to commit to and how it differs from the CDC Framework.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

5 hours ago, morechances said:

And, according to the governor, the ship docking in Florida could not ask for proof of vaccination. So it can never happen.

The Governor was speaking about those citizens in Florida.  Cruise lines can and will demand that all passengers be vaccinated.

[KWW88]

1 minute ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

The Governor was speaking about those citizens in Florida.  Cruise lines can and will demand that all passengers be vaccinated.

Do you mean that they cruise lines can ask all who board for proof of vaccine, other than FL residents?

[CGTNORMANDIE]

1 minute ago, KWW88 said:

Do you mean that they cruise lines can ask all who board for proof of vaccine, other than FL residents?

I mean that cruise lines can make proof of vaccination a requirement when booking a cruise...Florida residents included.

[HS2BS]

A big problem that is on the horizon is that the most of the crews on ships come from countries that vaccinated with the Sino version that has now been found to be only be 25 - 50% effective! That according the the  Director of Chinese Center for Disease Control, GAO Fu, “Chinese vaccines don’t have a high protection rate”. Look this up on news outlets such as Blumberg or The BBC using google.

 

[Baron Barracuda]

Cruising may be on hold but people are still planning summer vacations.  Money that would have gone towards cruises will be spent at hotels and attractions around the US, creating jobs and supporting local businesses.  Florida's loss may be Branson Missouri's gain.   

 

 

[Jeremiah1212]

3 hours ago, markeb said:

"The CRUISE Act also requires the CDC to issue recommendations for how mitigate the risk of COVID-19 aboard cruise ships by June 1."

Wonder if we could get a cushy consulting fee for providing them with this link?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/maritime/recommendations-for-ships.html

CDC: Here is our guidance and plan for you to get back to cruising. Fill in the blanks and respond with appropriate plans. 
 

Cruiseline: No. This is way too hard. We’re not doing any of this or committing to anything.
 

CDC: Your call...

Cruiseline: Contact your congress members! This is absurd. We must cruise safely. We have great plans in place however they are secret. 
 

Congress: yeah this is stupid! We need action. CDC, you give them plans for what to do by June 1 or else!

 

Aren’t we back to square one?? 🤦🏼‍♂️

 

 

[markeb]

18 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

Aren’t we back to square one?? 🤦🏼‍♂️

Blazing Saddles. Harrumph. If you don’t remember it, look it up on YouTube. 
 

And yes. If CLIA needs a consultant I can figure out an hourly rate...

[Denny01]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Cruising may be on hold but people are still planning summer vacations.  Money that would have gone towards cruises will be spent at hotels and attractions around the US, creating jobs and supporting local businesses.  Florida's loss may be Branson Missouri's gain.   

 

 

I can think of 124, no 126, places I’d go to if I can’t cruise instead of Branson........Please!!! I could stay home and call up 50’s has been lounge singers to listen to instead of wasting money going there. 

 

Den