New updates (5/12/21) to the CSO Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages

[Steelers36]

15 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

But ... still have to wear masks on aircraft, buses and so on. I'm assuming the Executive Order requiring masks in all Federal buildings has not yet been rescinded.

As you know, all CDC can do is put out a recommendation or guidance.  Up to the legislators and TPTB folks to do something.

[ebeluga]

43 minutes ago, beg3yrs said:

But ... still have to wear masks on aircraft, buses and so on. I'm assuming the Executive Order requiring masks in all Federal buildings has not yet been rescinded.

How does one know who is vaccinated and who is not in a public crowded transit hub or buses, trains and airplanes and differentiates mask or no mask?

[oskidunker]

10 minutes ago, ebeluga said:

How does one know who is vaccinated and who is not in a public crowded transit hub or buses, trains and airplanes and differentiates mask or no mask?

You can’t know. 

[Tyme2Cruise]

2 hours ago, Coffeeluvr05 said:

Today the CDC is announcing easing of restrictions that includes no masking outdoors OR indoors (in most places) for those that are vaccinated.  If all cruise pax and crew are vaccinated then we should all be golden, right?  Why would different rules apply whether you are on land or on a cruise ship?  Vaccinated is vaccinated, right?  I am not looking for an argument, I'm just saying that logic and sound reasoning should dictate that it would apply that way.  

That's what I have been saying as well, and I agree with you.

[memoak]

3 hours ago, ebeluga said:

How does one know who is vaccinated and who is not in a public crowded transit hub or buses, trains and airplanes and differentiates mask or no mask?

Staffers in the White House have been told no mask needed at work if you are vaccinated. I believe that as more data comes out the travel recommendations will be changed as well. By mid September I would hope that things would be more back to normal for travel

[Redwing55]

3 hours ago, memoak said:

Staffers in the White House have been told no mask needed at work if you are vaccinated. I believe that as more data comes out the travel recommendations will be changed as well. By mid September I would hope that things would be more back to normal for travel

Yup, they were walking around without masks.  Even the Marines dropped their masks today.  If one can walk around the White House day in and day out without a mask, cruise ships should be a no brainer.

[Ken the cruiser]

9 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

Yup, they were walking around without masks.  Even the Marines dropped their masks today.  If one can walk around the White House day in and day out without a mask, cruise ships should be a no brainer.

That would be nice. Now cruise lines just need to submit their CSO Phase 2A plans to the CDC opting for the 95%/98% vaccinated option, so their applicable ships can get Phase 3 certified to start their Phase 4 restricted cruises, hopefully starting in mid to late July.

[caribill]

Certainly the CDC should state that masks are not required on fully vaccinated people on the outside parts of a cruise ship.

[harkinmr]

10 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

That would be nice. Now cruise lines just need to submit their CSO Phase 2A plans to the CDC opting for the 95%/98% vaccinated option, so their applicable ships can get Phase 3 certified to start their Phase 4 restricted cruises, hopefully starting in mid to late July.

Still a fly in the ointment on US sailings out of Florida. DeSantis continues to dig in his heels. No vaccine requirement allowed for cruise companies. 
 

https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-norwegian-cruise-line/36420109#

[Ken the cruiser]

54 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Still a fly in the ointment on US sailings out of Florida. DeSantis continues to dig in his heels. No vaccine requirement allowed for cruise companies. 
 

https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-norwegian-cruise-line/36420109#

I have to admit there is a lot of "squirrel" meat fling around right now getting everyone to look in all kinds of directions associated with cruising; whether it's with the CSO modifications being continually released by the CDC or what's going on in the courts in Florida or in the Senate regarding Alaska cruises (as of last night) or simply the new perks for being vaccinated versus unvaccinated released yesterday. 

 

It will be definitely be interesting to see in the coming days what happens next. 😎

[AZjohn]

Maybe I'm looking at it differently because of remembering what happen at the beginning of the pandemic. I hope history never repeats US citizens being held captive on a ship in international waters because of covid cases on a cruise ship (guess I'm saying personally I don't want to ever be in that situation).

 

So, CDC states cruises can start with vaccinated crew and passengers. Next, CDC says that vaccinated people can gather and go mask-less. Steps A and B have been defined so lets get going on to C (getting cruise lines going with vaccinated people). 

Edited May 14, 2021 by AZjohn

[pcur]

On 5/12/2021 at 1:36 PM, Tyme2Cruise said:

 We have been vaccinated and have never had Covid-19, so if we are tested and have been vaccinated why do we have to where a mask in any setting?  

To answer your question:  we wear masks because vaccination does not keep us from picking up the virus and transmitting it to an unvaccinated person.  So, not wearing a mask means we each are knowingly transmitting the virus to other people.  No way to tell if you are, but the mask IS the way to know that you are not.

 

I just want an easy conscious about not passing it along to someone who could die. 

[pcur]

Duplicate post

Edited May 14, 2021 by pcur

[memoak]

6 minutes ago, pcur said:

To answer your question:  we wear masks because vaccination does not keep us from picking up the virus and transmitting it to an unvaccinated person.  So, not wearing a mask means we each are knowingly transmitting the virus to other people.  No way to tell if you are, but the mask IS the way to know that you are not.

 

I just want an easy conscious about not passing it along to someone who could die. 

The odds of passing on a virus if you are vaccinated is negligible. Those who refuse to vaccinate are the ones who need to wear the mask

[mustgo]

Just now, memoak said:

The odds of passing on a virus if you are vaccinated is negligible. Those who refuse to vaccinate are the ones who need to wear the mask

What about protecting those who try to protect themselves and others by getting vaccinated but suffer from low or no immunity diseases?

[pcur]

2 minutes ago, memoak said:

The odds of passing on a virus if you are vaccinated is negligible. Those who refuse to vaccinate are the ones who need to wear the mask

 

I just like to be cautious, and appreciate if others are, too:

 

4/2/21, Explore Health newsletter:

 

"It's possible that some people who are fully vaccinated could get COVID-19. The evidence isn't clear whether they can spread the virus to others. We are continuing to evaluate the evidence."

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, mustgo said:

What about protecting those who try to protect themselves and others by getting vaccinated but suffer from low or no immunity diseases?

They are the ones who need to mask up to protect themselves. And the number of those is very low

[mustgo]

1 minute ago, memoak said:

They are the ones who need to mask up to protect themselves. And the number of those is very low

It is insignificant until you become one.  Yes, wear a mask but the mask often protects others more than ones self.

[pcur]

4 minutes ago, mustgo said:

It is insignificant until you become one.  Yes, wear a mask but the mask often protects others more than ones self.

Yes, and you said it better than me!

[Tyme2Cruise]

5 minutes ago, pcur said:

To answer your question:  we wear masks because vaccination does not keep us from picking up the virus and transmitting it to an unvaccinated person.  So, not wearing a mask means we each are knowingly transmitting the virus to other people.  No way to tell if you are, but the mask IS the way to know that you are not.

 

I just want an easy conscious about not passing it along to someone who could die. 

 If you think you should wear a mask, then wear a mask.  As for me, as I stated, if I do not have Covid 19 and have been vaccinated, then I agree with the new CDC policy. I will wear a mask to shop in stores, or other places that require masks, but once outside, I remove it immediately.

[memoak]

21 minutes ago, mustgo said:

It is insignificant until you become one.  Yes, wear a mask but the mask often protects others more than ones self.

To quote the CDC. If you are vaccinated there is no need to wear a mask in most situations. If you choose not vaccinate then you are choosing to take the risk

[voljeep]

we are both fully vaccinated - now 3+ months past 2nd Pfizer shot.  We will continue to wear masks inside Publix, Sam's, Post Office and the local bodega ( scratchers, draw games, beer, cigs )

 

Outside - only on an as needed basis - depending on the facts and circumstances

 

oh, wait - take off the cigs, we don't smoke - never have, never will

[Steelers36]

3 hours ago, pcur said:

To answer your question:  we wear masks because vaccination does not keep us from picking up the virus and transmitting it to an unvaccinated person.  So, not wearing a mask means we each are knowingly transmitting the virus to other people.  No way to tell if you are, but the mask IS the way to know that you are not.

 

I just want an easy conscious about not passing it along to someone who could die. 

You cannot make these broad statements like they are 100% factual.  

 

You can pick up the virus even if wearing a mask because the mask is not the totally effective shield you seem to think it is.

As for vaccination, the learned science is that it is small chances to pick up and transmit a virus once fully vaccinated.

You claim you are "knowingly transmitting" without a mask.  I am not sure if you are vaccinated or not, but you are not knowingly transmitting unless you are Covid-19 positive and able to transmit active virus.  It doesn't mean for sure you are transmitting virus simply by the fact of not wearing a mask. 

 

It just isn't so black & white as you imply and chances are quite low if vaccinated.  I guess you know more than the CDC.

 

[HappyInVan]

IMHO, the American government is taking a big risk in the latest recommendations.

 

There is a rational basis to clear mask wearing among the vaccinated. Real world studies show the benefits of vaccines..

 

“A second shot of the Pfizer vaccine boosted protection further, causing symptomatic infections to fall by 90% and asymptomatic infections by 70%...”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/23/one-dose-of-pfizer-or-oxford-jab-reduces-covid-infection-rate-by-65-study

 

The chance of passing serious covid illness among vax people is greatly reduced.

 

Though we should note the important caveats. That people in this study were operating under safety guidelines and lockdowns. Once the mask wearing and safety restrictions cease, infections may climb in areas with significant community spread.

 

Therefore, there is a real risk that vax people will infect non-vax people who ignore the masking recommendation. I would expect infections to do a roller-coaster in anti-mask cultures.

 

Second, the number of serious illnesses is very low. However, the people in this study were likely following masking/distancing guidelines. So, their exposure were low = low number of serious illnesses.

 

“In February Public Health Scotland revealed that a month after receiving a shot of Pfizer or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation from Covid-19 fell by up to 85% and 94% respectively.”

 

Likely see rise in hospitalizations as vax people don't wear masks. The non-vax people can more easily infect them.

 

I would like to thank the American public for conducting a grand experiment. Canadians will be eagerly watching and waiting.

 

For myself, I (after double dose) intend to continue to wear masks in any community where covid is still active. Particularly in environments which are breeding ground for covid, e.g. cruise ships.

 

[Steelers36]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

IMHO, the American government is taking a big risk in the latest recommendations.

 

There is a rational basis to clear mask wearing among the vaccinated. Real world studies show the benefits of vaccines..

 

“A second shot of the Pfizer vaccine boosted protection further, causing symptomatic infections to fall by 90% and asymptomatic infections by 70%...”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/23/one-dose-of-pfizer-or-oxford-jab-reduces-covid-infection-rate-by-65-study

 

The chance of passing serious covid illness among vax people is greatly reduced.

 

Though we should note the important caveats. That people in this study were operating under safety guidelines and lockdowns. Once the mask wearing and safety restrictions cease, infections may climb in areas with significant community spread.

 

Therefore, there is a real risk that vax people will infect non-vax people who ignore the masking recommendation. I would expect infections to do a roller-coaster in anti-mask cultures.

 

Second, the number of serious illnesses is very low. However, the people in this study were likely following masking/distancing guidelines. So, their exposure were low = low number of serious illnesses.

 

“In February Public Health Scotland revealed that a month after receiving a shot of Pfizer or Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine, the risk of hospitalisation from Covid-19 fell by up to 85% and 94% respectively.”

 

Likely see rise in hospitalizations as vax people don't wear masks. The non-vax people can more easily infect them.

 

I would like to thank the American public for conducting a grand experiment. Canadians will be eagerly watching and waiting.

 

For myself, I (after double dose) intend to continue to wear masks in any community where covid is still active. Particularly in environments which are breeding ground for covid, e.g. cruise ships.

 

US isn't alone - UK loosening up to.  Canada remains in the dark ages bringing up the rear - as usual, unfortunately.

 

People of the World who get vaccinated cannot be expected to be held hostage ad nauseum by those who choose not to get vaccinated.  People don't wear masks to protect against coughs, colds, the flu.  

 

That said, you and anyone else are welcome to continue wearing masks to infinity and beyond.

 

Your characterization of a cruise ship as a "breeding ground" for Covid is unfounded when virtually all of the indications thus far are going towards almost total vaccinated crew and passengers.