Wine - Seabourn & Silversea vs Regent

[RetiredandTravel]

2 hours ago, mraven said:

i've never gotten the hard sell at the TK Grill in the 5 times we've been there.. They show us the list and we politely decline. They they ask we we want wine from the included list. Guess we've been lucky.

 

1 hour ago, dalliowner said:

mraven

That has been my experience as well

 

 

The thread seems to have deviated from my original thread topic.  I'd be interested to hear what you both think of the complimentary wine list.  Personally I'd like to see either the list improved or an option available to purchase wines (package) in the middle ground between the complimentary list and the connoisseur list.   Someone made the point that it will never happen but a man has to dream.

 

thanks

 

 

[sfvoyage]

2 hours ago, dalliowner said:

mraven

That has been my experience as well

 

2 hours ago, mraven said:

i've never gotten the hard sell at the TK Grill in the 5 times we've been there.. They show us the list and we politely decline. They they ask we we want wine from the included list. Guess we've been lucky.

 

2 hours ago, dalliowner said:

duplicate

 

Same here.  I've dined at TK Grill since practically Day One, many times and on all 5 ships, and never once have I been given any sales pitch, let alone sales pressure, in regards to the revenue wine list.

Edited June 11, 2021 by sfvoyage

[cruiseej]

30 minutes ago, sfvoyage said:

I've dined at TK Grill since practically Day One, many times and on all 5 ships, and never once have I been given any sales pitch, let alone sales pressure, in regards to the revenue wine list.

 

In my experience, it's not that it's a hard sales pitch. It's that they hand you the premium list and create an expectation you will choose from that list. It's the lack of mention on the menu, or by a waiter, that the ship's complementary wines are also available. And when you ask for a complementary wine, it's often greeted with unsmiling silence as th premium menu is taken away, rather than being pleased to serve you. Once , when I tried the wine of the day and asked if they could come up with a bottle of the previous day's wine which I enjoyed more, I saw a distinct eye roll and sigh rather than the can-do, happy-to-please-you attitude exhibited in most other instances aboard a Seabourn ship. 

 

59 minutes ago, RetiredandTravel said:

The thread seems to have deviated from my original thread topic... I'd like to see either the list improved or an option available to purchase wines (package) in the middle ground between the complimentary list and the connoisseur list.

 

As I posted earlier in the thread, I think either of those options would be desirable, and a nice improvement over the current complimentary wine selections. But I also unfortunately feel both are unlikely to be implemented. 

[sfvoyage]

25 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

 

In my experience, it's not that it's a hard sales pitch. It's that they hand you the premium list and create an expectation you will choose from that list. It's the lack of mention on the menu, or by a waiter, that the ship's complementary wines are also available. And when you ask for a complementary wine, it's often greeted with unsmiling silence as th premium menu is taken away, rather than being pleased to serve you. Once , when I tried the wine of the day and asked if they could come up with a bottle of the previous day's wine which I enjoyed more, I saw a distinct eye roll and sigh rather than the can-do, happy-to-please-you attitude exhibited in most other instances aboard a Seabourn ship. 

 

Well, that's not been my experience:  no unsmiling silence, no eye roll or sigh, no change in attitude when asking for a non-revenue wine.  (And I'm quite sensitive to bad service and attitude.)

[brittany12]

I see some basic agreements and some differences among all of us involved in this discussion who appreciate good wine and searching for answers.. Let me try to list them.

1. We all agree the "fine complimentary  wines touted by SB are not what they advertise them to be.

2.The list should be improved with more quality offerings. Some are prepared to pay slightly more in the basic fare to achieve this upgrade. Some feel we're already entitled to that because of high fares.

3. I will add my own hope that SB will stop false representations about the "fine" quality of their complimentary selection but don't expect that to happen.

4. Some defend SB and TK for not doing the" hard sell" in their experience and are not bothered  that all TK diners are being manipulated to buy the premium product because, they say, they know the free stuff can also be had and don't feel put upon to ask for it. Or these just want to order solely from the premium list and don't care about the attempted manipulation or the other offerings.

5. Others feel even that even the "soft" sell approach to push the premium list first without a mention or reference anywhere of the free wines being available without having to ask for itself ourselves is offensive, wrong and should be corrected.

6. Smiles by waiters after being rebuffed in their upsell efforts come across as frowns or rolling of eyes to others.

7.Personally,  if I was the waiter and told to try to sell as much premium wine as I could I would not be so subtle after being rebuffed. 

7. I repeat my partial solution that I think wold satisfy all - except probably SB and Keller who want to see the extra money from selling the premiums continue and expand:

        Just have printed on all menus including TK's the simple and open statement that the complimentary   wine selection are available in TK as well as throughout the ship.

 

How can any of us fair minded customers object to that? Its called truth in advertising.

My own prediction? we will see the quality of the complimentary wines further decline as another effort to drive more sales from the premium list. Sorry for the length.

[MightyQuinn]

2 hours ago, cruiseej said:

 

In my experience, it's not that it's a hard sales pitch. It's that they hand you the premium list and create an expectation you will choose from that list. It's the lack of mention on the menu, or by a waiter, that the ship's complementary wines are also available. And when you ask for a complementary wine, it's often greeted with unsmiling silence as th premium menu is taken away, rather than being pleased to serve you.

 

We head them off at the pass.  As soon as a wine steward comes along to welcome us, we don't give him/her an opportunity to pitch the premium list.  We simply say we'd love a glass of ABC to start and then we'll switch to XYZ with the main course.  Any choices we make are always on the complimentary list.  We've done this for years at TK Grill and never had any push-back.

[RetiredandTravel]

Here is the Seabourn complimentary list from 10 years ago.  Notice the deterioration of quality and diversity, in 2011 the list had Chablis (2) and much higher quality wines including a  Bordeaux ($16).  The list is also much more interesting than Josh Merlot and company.   It gives me the impression they are possibly reducing wine quality to improve margins.  

 

In my opinion the best way to remedy the wine quality is to be very vocal in reviews and comments.

 

 

 

White Wine:

 

 

Pinot Grigio Santa Margarita Alto-Aldidge, Italy

Gavi La Scolca Piedmont, Italy

Chardonnay Underwood De Meye, South Africa

Chardonnay Robert Mondavi California, U.S.A

Chardonnay Milton Park, South Australia

Sauvignon Blanc Santa Alicia Maipo Valley, Chile

Sauvignon Blanc Winspang, New Zealand

Petit Chablis Bouchard, Burgandy, France

Grand Ardeche Louis Latour, Ardeche, France

Albarino Don Olegario Rias Baixas, Spain

Chablis W. Fevre, Burgunday, France

La Poule Blanche, Chardonnay, Viognier, Sauvignon Blanc Pays D'Oc, France

Spy Valley Sauvignon Blanc, Malaborough, New Zealand

Foot Print Chardonnay, Western Cape, South Africa

 

 

 

Red Wine:

 

 

Pinot Noir Brassfield Round Mountain High Valley, U.S.A.

Cotes du Rhone Grenache Syrah, France

Merlot Anakena Rapel Valley, Chile

Merlot/Cabernet Sirius Bordeaux Rouge, France

Carmenere Petit Verdot Shiraz Sanat Alicia B2 Blend, Chile

Malbec Los Toneles Mendoza, Argentina

Chianti Superiore Banfi, Tuscany, Italy

Milton Park Shiraz South, Australia

Aromo Cabernet Sauvignon, Maule Valley, Chile

Nudo Merlot Sauvignon, Chile

Borsao Grenache Aragon, Spain

Rosemount Diamond Label Shiraz, Australia

Cote du Rhone Reserve Perrin, Rhone Valley, France

Oyster Bay Pinot Noir, Marlborough, New Zealand

Santa Alicia Merlot, Central Valley, Chile

Nudo Merlot, Colchagua Valley, Chile

 

 

 

Rose:

 

 

JP Chenet Rose, France - Limited

Beringer White Zinfandel, California-Sweet Rose, U.S.A.

Canti Pinot Grigio, Veneto, Italy

 

 

Champagne:

 

 

Nicholas Feuillatte Champagne, France

Prosseco Raso Corona Prosseco IGT, Italy

 

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/topic/1469337-current-complimentary-wines-on-the-legend/

 

 

Edited June 12, 2021 by RetiredandTravel
added update

[Mr Luxury]

I have never had a problem in TK Grill with wine,I order from their list or the Seabourn premium list.

I am never disappointed.

I rarely touch the included list unless I am just having one glass of something and that will be at other bars on the ship.

[lincslady]

But of course, Mr. L.   We would have expected nothing less.

[Covepointcruiser]

Has anyone paid the up charge to receive better wines on Seabourn.   I believe there is a charge per voyage.   Is this a good use of OBCs?   We’ve been able to drink the included wines in past but have they degraded since late 2019?

[frantic36]

34 minutes ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Has anyone paid the up charge to receive better wines on Seabourn.   I believe there is a charge per voyage.   Is this a good use of OBCs?   We’ve been able to drink the included wines in past but have they degraded since late 2019?

Are you meaning the Gold or Silver Package which is just half a dozen of wine? With our discount from our loyalty level and certain restrictions in the package about what you could choose it wasn't worth it to us.

 

I know someone who negotiated at the start of the cruise to get the wines swapped around to get the gold package he wanted but sometimes that seemed difficult if the sommelier preferred to stick by the guidelines. He got his way but who wants the argument  at the start of the cruise?

 

Also unsure what will be offered once cruising restarts.

[jenidallas]

1 hour ago, Covepointcruiser said:

Has anyone paid the up charge to receive better wines on Seabourn.   I believe there is a charge per voyage.   Is this a good use of OBCs?   We’ve been able to drink the included wines in past but have they degraded since late 2019?

I’ve had a Silver package given to me and I thought the list was fairly dull.  The best “value” on there was Far Niente Dolce. The list of included wines was fairly short compared to the included list and most were recognizable winemakers/varietals that are no doubt purchased in bulk and easily provisioned for lists on ships across the Carnival fleet.  

 We’ve preferred to use our Seabourn Club benefit discount to order off the list, particularly the TK Grill list which to us had more interesting selections, but we also liked and had familiarity with a lot of the smaller US vineyards that a good portion of that list was sourced from.

 

I’m not sure anyone will have much perspective yet on whether the list has degraded since late 2019 since most of 2020 and all of 2021 to date has been out of commission.  😉

Edited June 15, 2021 by jenidallas

[RetiredandTravel]

14 hours ago, jenidallas said:

 

 

I’m not sure anyone will have much perspective yet on whether the list has degraded since late 2019 since most of 2020 and all of 2021 to date has been out of commission.  😉

 

 

At the risk of being snarky any degradation may involve some box wines.  Easy access anyway. 🥳

[Isklaar]

Something that we've done, given that the Silver and Gold wine packages are often not to our taste, is to make our own selection from the wines on the premium list and make a deal with the Head Sommelier. We ask for a copy of the premium list when we board, then we discuss our selections with the HS, e.g. 7 bottles for a 14 day cruise. We've been able to negotiate a discount by 'bulk buying' in this way.

That said, we have aleays found both a red and white on the included list that we enjoy, and SB has upped its game on rosé too in the previous couple of years. 
Not to forget the Montaudon is, IMO, far  superior to the NF for those moments when only champagne will do! 

[Isklaar]

Included wines, 25 day Holiday cruise, December 2019:

 

 

Complimentary Wine Selections - Extended Holiday sailing - Sojourn 10 December 2019 - 4 January 2020

 

 

White 

 

La Scolca, Gavi, Piedmonte, Italy

Santa Margarita, Pinot Grigio, Valdadige, Italy

Maison Louis Latour, Grand Ardèche Chardonnay, France

Sebastiani Chardonnay, North Coast, Calif. USA

Virgina Dare Chardonnay, Russian River Valley, Sonoma, Calif. USA

Gruber Roschitz, Riesling, Niederosterreich, Austria

Clarendelle, Bordeaux Blend, Bordeaux, France

Feudi Di San Gregori, Greco di Tufo, Campania, Italy

Paco and Lola 'Lolo' Albarino, Rias Baixas, Spain

Mahan Sauvignon Blanc, Nelson, New Zealand

Flanagan 'Riley's Row's' Sauvignon Blanc, North Coast, Calif. USA

Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc, Marlborough, New Zealand

 

 

Red

 

Canepa "Finisimo" Cabernet Sauvignon, Colchagua Valley, Chile

Betz Family Vineyards L 'Elegance, Columbia Valley, Washington State, USA

Sebastiani Cabernet Sauvignon, Sonoma County, Calif. USA

Bodegas LAN, Rioja Crianza, Spain

Trivento Malbec, Mendoza, Argentina

Gerard Betrand Nature Merlot, Southern France

Masi Poderi BellOvile Serego Alighieri, Tuscany, Italy

Castello Banfi Chianti Superiore, Tuscany, Italy

Chateau Latour Camblanes, Bordeaux, France

Intipalka Reserve Cabernet, Petit Verdot, Peru

Terlato and Chapoutier Shiraz/Viognier Australia

9 Hats Cabernet Sauvignon, Washington, USA

Cardwell Hills Pinot Noir, Willematte, Oregon, USA

 

Sparkling/Rosé/Sauternes

 

 

Mautadon, Champagne ,France

Centine Maschio, Prosecco, Italy

Beringer Main and Vine White Zinfandel, USA

M. Chapoutier Belleruche Rosé, France

Roquesante Provence Rosé, France

 

Domaine Sichel Sauternes, Bordeaux, France.

 

 

[A Tucson Guy]

Not bad and not great on the wine list but that is to be expected.  I don't have a problem paying for a nicer bottle but probably not every night.

[mchell810]

On 6/16/2021 at 4:28 PM, Isklaar said:

Included wines, 25 day Holiday cruise, December 2019:

 

 

 

Complimentary Wine Selections - Extended Holiday sailing - Sojourn 10 December 2019 - 4 January 2020

 

 

White 

 

La Scolca, Gavi, Piedmonte, Italy

Santa Margarita, Pinot Grigio, Valdadige, Italy

Maison Louis Latour, Grand Ardèche Chardonnay, France

Sebastiani Chardonnay, North Coast, Calif. USA

Virgina Dare Chardonnay, Russian River Valley, Sonoma, Calif. USA

Gruber Roschitz, Riesling, Niederosterreich, Austria

Clarendelle, Bordeaux Blend, Bordeaux, France

Feudi Di San Gregori, Greco di Tufo, Campania, Italy

Paco and Lola 'Lolo' Albarino, Rias Baixas, Spain

Mahan Sauvignon Blanc, Nelson, New Zealand

Flanagan 'Riley's Row's' Sauvignon Blanc, North Coast, Calif. USA

Oyster Bay Sauvignon Blanc, Marlborough, New Zealand

 

 

Red

 

Canepa "Finisimo" Cabernet Sauvignon, Colchagua Valley, Chile

Betz Family Vineyards L 'Elegance, Columbia Valley, Washington State, USA

Sebastiani Cabernet Sauvignon, Sonoma County, Calif. USA

Bodegas LAN, Rioja Crianza, Spain

Trivento Malbec, Mendoza, Argentina

Gerard Betrand Nature Merlot, Southern France

Masi Poderi BellOvile Serego Alighieri, Tuscany, Italy

Castello Banfi Chianti Superiore, Tuscany, Italy

Chateau Latour Camblanes, Bordeaux, France

Intipalka Reserve Cabernet, Petit Verdot, Peru

Terlato and Chapoutier Shiraz/Viognier Australia

9 Hats Cabernet Sauvignon, Washington, USA

Cardwell Hills Pinot Noir, Willematte, Oregon, USA

 

Sparkling/Rosé/Sauternes

 

 

Mautadon, Champagne ,France

Centine Maschio, Prosecco, Italy

Beringer Main and Vine White Zinfandel, USA

M. Chapoutier Belleruche Rosé, France

Roquesante Provence Rosé, France

 

Domaine Sichel Sauternes, Bordeaux, France.

 

 

 May I ask how you got the list?  Was it available onboard for all cruisers -- at the bars perhaps? In the dining rooms? Or did you have to request it?  I notice most cruise lines don't really publish the list; although it would be great to have at the start of a cruise.  TIA.

[dalliowner]

If you go to the Square on your first day you can request a copy of list , although that this can change during a cruise.

[Mr Luxury]

Don't forget that the ship will buy in local wines when in port and offer these.

Wine is a funny subject and what is good for one person is not always good for the next person.

Drink what you like and leave well alone what you do not like.

[fdnycruiser]

Louis LaTour was one of the wines at Thomas Keller. It was also available at other locations, but it was a different one at TK at no charge.  BTW, I was on 2 Five week cruises on the Encore and Ovation, and never encountered any attempt to up sell at TK. Never a bad experience there either.