Mixed Vaccines

[Tango99]

18 hours ago, Fouremco said:

The US has already approved AZ for manufacture in the US and for export. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean that it's approved for use in the US. And as far as I know, AZ still hasn't submitted its application for FDA emergency use, let alone final approval. It looks increasingly possible that they will focus on production and export, not domestic US sales.

Strangely enough, our Canadian supply of AZ vaccines came from the US COVAX stockpile produced with the purpose of aid to other countries. Our sunny ways endeared us to the US to add Canada to the list of countries requiring aid from COVAX. And our first 1.5million doses arrived in the form of a loan. And with the opening of the US to foreign air travellers, the US now has to look at opening the approval of Astra Zeneca Oxford version given the many millions of people in the UK who have used this vaccine.  

[Ex-Airbalancer]

40 minutes ago, Tango99 said:

Strangely enough, our Canadian supply of AZ vaccines came from the US COVAX stockpile produced with the purpose of aid to other countries. Our sunny ways endeared us to the US to add Canada to the list of countries requiring aid from COVAX. And our first 1.5million doses arrived in the form of a loan. And with the opening of the US to foreign air travellers, the US now has to look at opening the approval of Astra Zeneca Oxford version given the many millions of people in the UK who have used this vaccine.  

Ford was happy about it 

https://youtu.be/486pSnyXHjM

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, hellopuppies said:

Will do before making final payment. Thanks for your inputs!

I hope it all works out and you have a great cruise!

[bcwife76]

At least it's making headlines:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/discussions-underway-with-countries-to-accept-canadians-with-mixed-vaccines-tam-1.5599084

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, Tango99 said:

Strangely enough, our Canadian supply of AZ vaccines came from the US COVAX stockpile produced with the purpose of aid to other countries. Our sunny ways endeared us to the US to add Canada to the list of countries requiring aid from COVAX. And our first 1.5million doses arrived in the form of a loan. And with the opening of the US to foreign air travellers, the US now has to look at opening the approval of Astra Zeneca Oxford version given the many millions of people in the UK who have used this vaccine.  

It's a strange situation in the US, where there is no AZ approval from the FDA, EUA or final, because AZ hasn't submitted a request. They've been on again and off again with their plans, but nothing concrete as yet. Meanwhile, the CDC recognizes AZ and its approval by the WHO, and its website has numerous references like this:

 

This guidance applies to COVID-19 vaccines currently authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson (J&J)/Janssen COVID-19 vaccines.  This guidance can also be applied to COVID-19 vaccines that have been listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (e.g. AstraZeneca/Oxford). 

 

So when considering who can fly into the US in November, or when considering Canadian land crossings when the border finally opens up, will they only accept FDA approved vaccines or, like the CDC, will they accept WHO approved vaccines? At least @bcwife76's post shows that there continues to be dialogue between countries in an attempt to resolve an issue that impacts a good number of nations. 

[Robjame]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

continues to be dialogue between countries in an attempt to resolve an issue that impacts a good number of nations. 

 

I am sorry but I don't share your optimism.

 

June 18 2021 - Justin Trudeau said that "AstraZeneca recipients will 'not be disadvantaged' when they travel. He said that this will be solved in a matter of weeks. June 18!

 

We had a promise of a Canadian Vaccine Passport for travel. The Immigration Minister projected this for the early fall. I know - dealing with the provinces must be hell but don't predict it, if you can't do it.

 

Canada is still under a Cruise Do Not Travel warning.

 

I see little appetite for change, little progress or reason for optimism. 

I am not a Government Groupie. I am an equal opportunity political party basher.

 

 

•  

 

[Fouremco]

5 minutes ago, Robjame said:

 

I am sorry but I don't share your optimism.

 

June 18 2021 - Justin Trudeau said that "AstraZeneca recipients will 'not be disadvantaged' when they travel. He said that this will be solved in a matter of weeks. June 18!

 

We had a promise of a Canadian Vaccine Passport for travel. The Immigration Minister projected this for the early fall. I know - dealing with the provinces must be hell but don't predict it, if you can't do it.

 

Canada is still under a Cruise Do Not Travel warning.

 

I see little appetite for change, little progress or reason for optimism. 

I am not a Government Groupie. I am an equal opportunity political party basher.

 

 

•  

 

I think that there is plenty of room for optimism. Maybe you didn't read the article linked in @bcwife76's post #304 that starts with this lead paragraph:

 

Canada’s Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam says “active” discussions are underway with various countries, including the U.S., to permit the entry of Canadians with mixed COVID-19 vaccine doses.

 

Contrary to you, I see definite appetite for change, ongoing progress and reason for optimism. My 37+ plus years in government, including working in a number of international fora, makes my perspective somewhat different than yours. For example, whether talking about vaccine acceptance or vaccine passports, the international aspects dictate progress measured in baby steps. And if international negotiations can be difficult, try dealing with all of the provinces and territories!

 

I get it, all of us who cruise, stay at AI resorts, or otherwise vacation abroad would like to see all of these impediments resolved today. But as the pandemic keeps throwing curve balls at us, solutions become more complex, multilateral in nature and, above all, time consuming. 

[broberts]

Now that the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use, can one not get a family doctor to issue a prescription?

[Robjame]

41 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Maybe you didn't read the article linked in @bcwife76's post #304 that starts with this lead paragraph:

I did - in fact I watched Tam when she addressed this. Did you see her?

 

I am encouraged by your optimism. So when a politician says, "in a matter of weeks" what does that mean? - in political/bureucratic terms?

 

However, you are absolutely correct - in business when we make promises, deadlines predictions, then we are held to them.

 

49 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

But as the pandemic keeps throwing curve balls at us, solutions become more complex, multilateral in nature and, above all, time consuming. 

 

Other countries are getting on with it. But I sure hope your expertise proves true. 

 

 

[Fouremco]

15 minutes ago, broberts said:

Now that the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use, can one not get a family doctor to issue a prescription?

I don't think that's how it works. A prescription isn't required for COVID vaccines, just as they aren't required for flu vaccines. I don't believe that the move from EUA to final approval changes that.

[d9704011]

28 minutes ago, broberts said:

Now that the Pfizer vaccine has been approved for use, can one not get a family doctor to issue a prescription?

For what health related purpose?

[broberts]

5 minutes ago, Robjame said:

However, you are absolutely correct - in business when we make promises, deadlines predictions, then we are held to them.

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Urban myth. 

 

Bombardier C Series

PeopleSoft Phoenix Payroll

 

Business has its fair share of broken promises, missed deadlines and abject failures. While occasionally people lose jobs, most of the time people are just transferred and everything is swept under the rug.

 

6 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

I don't think that's how it works. A prescription isn't required for COVID vaccines, just as they aren't required for flu vaccines. I don't believe that the move from EUA to final approval changes that.

 

I was thinking that someone with a mixed AZ vaccination might be able to get their doctor to issue a prescription for a Pfizer vaccination.

[truckswain]

3 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Urban myth. 

 

Bombardier C Series

PeopleSoft Phoenix Payroll

 

Business has its fair share of broken promises, missed deadlines and abject failures. While occasionally people lose jobs, most of the time people are just transferred and everything is swept under the rug.

 

 

I was thinking that someone with a mixed AZ vaccination might be able to get their doctor to issue a prescription for a Pfizer vaccination.

If anyone has any luck getting a script for a mRNA vaccine let us know.  I may call my doctor Monday to see if it is possible or if their office has vaccines that they would administer.

[tert333]

1 hour ago, Fouremco said:

I think that there is plenty of room for optimism. Maybe you didn't read the article linked in @bcwife76's post #304 that starts with this lead paragraph:

 

Canada’s Chief Public Health Officer Dr. Theresa Tam says “active” discussions are underway with various countries, including the U.S., to permit the entry of Canadians with mixed COVID-19 vaccine doses.

 

Contrary to you, I see definite appetite for change, ongoing progress and reason for optimism. My 37+ plus years in government, including working in a number of international fora, makes my perspective somewhat different than yours. For example, whether talking about vaccine acceptance or vaccine passports, the international aspects dictate progress measured in baby steps. And if international negotiations can be difficult, try dealing with all of the provinces and territories!

 

I get it, all of us who cruise, stay at AI resorts, or otherwise vacation abroad would like to see all of these impediments resolved today. But as the pandemic keeps throwing curve balls at us, solutions become more complex, multilateral in nature and, above all, time consuming. 

I was pleased to see that the UK is now accepting mixed vaccines (AZ/mRNA).   They were convinced that it should be an approved vaccine.  Most of Europe accepts mixed vaccines.  Hopefully, the US will see this as well.

[Fouremco]

3 minutes ago, broberts said:

I was thinking that someone with a mixed AZ vaccination might be able to get their doctor to issue a prescription for a Pfizer vaccination.

In some provinces, like Quebec, that's doable, even without a prescription. Ontario, on the other hand, is adamant about restricting third (booster) shots to a select few and to date will not allow them to compensate for AZ-mRNA mixes. 

[armwinder]

Not sure if there is a real clear picture to whether or not a mix of Pfizer and Moderna will be widely accepted to cross the border into the US or if it is one by one by one basis.   As it stands right now the wording is a little ambiguous. Don't want to get to the airport with a negative test and not be able to board the plane. Things are bound to change in the next few months I imagine.

Quote from CDC website;

 

 "At present CDC does not recognize mixed vaccines," said spokesperson Kristen Nordlund.

But there are exceptions to the rule. The CDC says on its website that mixed doses of the two mRNA vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna, are acceptable in "exceptional situations," such as when the vaccine used for the first dose was no longer available.

[Fouremco]

While the US was not allowing entry by people from the vast majority of countries, and the few that were allowed, like Canadians, didn't have to be vaccinated, the mixed vaccine issue received little attention from American authorities. The only people trying to get some type of discussion going were those pesky Canadians, but really, who pays much attention to them anyway. But with the decision to open things up in Novembers to a swath of countries, some of which have also approved mixed vaccinations, all of a sudden there is a chorus of voices singing the same tune as the Canadians. Now, as the leaders of the free world, the US authorities may choose to stick with their "no mix" mantra, but maybe, just maybe, they finally realize that some of the countries that have allowed mixed doses have actually fared better in the fight against COVID than the US has, and that mixing really isn't a bad thing after all. We can only hope! 

[Tango99]

On 9/24/2021 at 4:10 PM, Fouremco said:

It's a strange situation in the US, where there is no AZ approval from the FDA, EUA or final, because AZ hasn't submitted a request. They've been on again and off again with their plans, but nothing concrete as yet. Meanwhile, the CDC recognizes AZ and its approval by the WHO, and its website has numerous references like this:

 

This guidance applies to COVID-19 vaccines currently authorized for emergency use by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration: Pfizer-BioNTech, Moderna, and Johnson & Johnson (J&J)/Janssen COVID-19 vaccines.  This guidance can also be applied to COVID-19 vaccines that have been listed for emergency use by the World Health Organization (e.g. AstraZeneca/Oxford). 

 

So when considering who can fly into the US in November, or when considering Canadian land crossings when the border finally opens up, will they only accept FDA approved vaccines or, like the CDC, will they accept WHO approved vaccines? At least @bcwife76's post shows that there continues to be dialogue between countries in an attempt to resolve an issue that impacts a good number of nations. 

The NCL site has been amended this week to refer also to the WHO recommendations which were not part of the original Presidential Order (The P.O. is based on temporary emergency measures that came into being enabling the CDC first to approve vaccines while the FDA had the final word to include in the normal pharma suite of vaccinations. And use a new name).   The WHO recommends also mixed dosses of 2 mRNA vaccines. NCL now states that for ships arriving or leaving the USA the approved vaccines includes mixed dosing for mRNA vaccines and not AZ. NCL further states that for cruises arriving and departing non-US ports the AZ-Oxford vaccine is acceptable and can be included in mixed dose regime. I believe the version that Canada received from the US has been re-named. Possibly Covishield. 

[Tango99]

On 9/24/2021 at 7:52 PM, broberts said:

 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Urban myth. 

 

Bombardier C Series

PeopleSoft Phoenix Payroll

 

Business has its fair share of broken promises, missed deadlines and abject failures. While occasionally people lose jobs, most of the time people are just transferred and everything is swept under the rug.

 

 

I was thinking that someone with a mixed AZ vaccination might be able to get their doctor to issue a prescription for a Pfizer vaccination.

Supplies are all doled out to the provinces by the feds. Not long ago in our region (Ottawa/eastern Ontario) Moderna had an excess supply and there was rumint of an open call to use them up. Which didn’t happen, as there is bigger need for the elderly to be boosted as their initial vaccines were over 6 months ago. The immunity wanes in the elderly is reduced as time goes on. 

[Ciren219]

On 9/24/2021 at 6:14 AM, abby1257 said:

HI, just wondering....did you get FCC or a refund?

I got a full refund.

[Sistersinlaw]

Just canceled our Xmas cruise, so sad. Our TA said it was too risky to wait it out and see if US would accept the AZ/Pfizer mix, as Carnival is being very accommodating about cancellations right now - hoping to get full refund, versus a mix of refund of FCC.  We're keeping our flights for now as we have up to 24 hours before departure to change it, hoping things change.  Yet another Covid travel plan canceled. Sigh.

[K_e_short]

30 minutes ago, Sistersinlaw said:

Just canceled our Xmas cruise, so sad. Our TA said it was too risky to wait it out and see if US would accept the AZ/Pfizer mix, as Carnival is being very accommodating about cancellations right now - hoping to get full refund, versus a mix of refund of FCC.  We're keeping our flights for now as we have up to 24 hours before departure to change it, hoping things change.  Yet another Covid travel plan canceled. Sigh.

 

It's not whether or not the U.S. will accept AZ/Pfizer mix. It's whether the CDC will change their rules AND the cruise line chooses to make the change.

Right now many cruise lines have interpreted the CDC rules differently 😞

 

Carnival will give you a full refund.

Even if it was a non refundable rate.

They are very understanding of Canadians with mixed vaccines.

 

 

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, K_e_short said:

It's not whether or not the U.S. will accept AZ/Pfizer mix. It's whether the CDC will change their rules AND the cruise line chooses to make the change.

There's a strong likelihood that the US will include Canada in the new November flight requirements to be vaccinated to US standards in order to fly in. So, in addition to what the CDC may do in relation to cruising and the acceptance of AZ/rRNA mixes, @sisterinlaw also has to consider whether or not she and hubby will be even allowed to fly into the US. Given the doubt about both flying and boarding, taking a full refund now seems like a sad but wise decision.

 

Hopefully, international pressure over the mixed vaccine issue will result in a change in what the US will consider to be fully vaccinated to fly in. If that happens, I'd be very surprised if the same change wasn't applied to cruising. If so, we can keep our fingers crossed that @sisterinlaw and her hubby will be able to rebook and enjoy their Xmas cruise.

[Sistersinlaw]

Just got off the phone with our TA - Carnival gave us a full refund. Yay!!  Thanks @K_e_short and @Fouremco for your words of wisdom.  We are keeping our flight for now - lots of time to cancel it, but we are not expecting the rules to change so are 'planning' on a Canadian Christmas this year - again.  

[abby1257]

I actually did not know about the flying into the US with mixed vaccines.  Am I correct in thinking up until November 1st, Canadian's could fly into the US with mixed Azstrzeneca and either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines....but after November 1st we won't....Anybody????