Another tipping question

[candy4040]

I remember years ago there was a sitcom (think it was 3rd Rock from the Sun) with Jane Curtain and John Lithow and they were in a restaurant and John's character placed a stack of one dollar bills on the table and every time he wasn't happy with something he would take one dollar back making sure the server saw it.  It was hilarious.  

[caribill]

10 hours ago, Kay S said:

 I am genuinely excited that there is yet another tipping thread because they are so entertaining.  I also enjoy dress code threads. Good clean fun reading these.

 

If I tip the Maitre d', can I wear shorts to the dining room on a formal evening?

[SargassoPirate]

2 hours ago, caribill said:

 

If I tip the Maitre d', can I wear shorts to the dining room on a formal evening?

You can do that without a tip.😊  Top off those shorts with a wife beater, flip flops, and wear your ballcap backwards and I can almost guarantee you that the staff won't say a thing.  They are afraid to confront anyone for fear of getting a bad review. 

[MissP22]

26 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

You can do that without a tip.😊  Top off those shorts with a wife beater, flip flops, and wear your ballcap backwards and I can almost guarantee you that the staff won't say a thing.  They are afraid to confront anyone for fear of getting a bad review. 

Well that does it.

My DH now refuses to wear his tux any more and I can wear my sweat pants to dinner all the time.

[justafem]

6 minutes ago, MissP22 said:

Well that does it.

My DH now refuses to wear his tux any more and I can wear my sweat pants to dinner all the time.

I have a pair of sweats you'd be certain were dress pants.  So I fake it and wear them!  

[Hlitner]

16 hours ago, Kay S said:

Oh how exciting!  Another tipping thread!

 

I know the subject is cruise lines, but my daughter who waited tables for years (through high school, college, and graduate school) says big tippers get better service in restaurants.  That's her experience.  

 

I don't see the harm done if someone thinks he gets better service if he tips.  I don't see the harm done if someone thinks it makes no difference.  One's experience is always subjective.  However, this is a tipping thread, so let the games begin.

In a way you have made my point.  Your post is all about American tipping culture.  But what often gets ignored (by Americans) is that outside of the USA/Canada, the tipping culture is completely different.  Travel in Australia and you will find that most folks do not tip.  Their culture supports the idea that waiters are paid a "living wage" and they do not expect tips (although that may be slowly changing).  Some of these waiters might be disappointed if they wait on Americans and do not get a tip, but they are actually laughing at the foolish Americans who would leave a tip.   Travel in Japan and leave a tip (even a small tip) and you will get smiles.  But behind that smile they are thinking you are being a typical patronizing American who insults folks by throwing around their money.   Go to most places in Italy and France and a small tip is considered normal.  But if you tip 15, 20 or 25% they will think you are just another American tossing around money (this is resented).

 

We have all heard the term "Ugly American" and this can be applied to Americans who think it is correct to spread their own culture wherever they go rather than trying to adapt to the local norms.  While big tips can sometimes buy a friend, in many cultures it is seen as something that is just ostentatious, patronizing, and does little to make a friend.  I learned this lesson, when as a young man living in Japan, I witnessed some very bad behavior by fellow Americans who were attending Expo 70 (Osaka).  It was embarrassing to see how some folks acted which was very insulting to the local/national culture of Japan.  Folks could improve their travel experience by taking a few minutes to read-up on the local culture//mores of where they are going to visit, and then use that knowledge as a basic guide on how to behave.

 

Hank

[cruzsnooze]

I reduce my auto gratuity to $10-$12 PP PD at guest services on the first day. I have always had great service and never had a complaint. This proves to me that the crew always do the same for everyone without regard to anyone's individual gratuity. 

[Hlitner]

50 minutes ago, cruzsnooze said:

I reduce my auto gratuity to $10-$12 PP PD at guest services on the first day. I have always had great service and never had a complaint. This proves to me that the crew always do the same for everyone without regard to anyone's individual gratuity. 

I am sure there are folks here who would chide you for reducing auto grats.  You have to love that HAL has changed the term to "Crew Appreciation."  But I chide the cruise lines (primarily the mass market lines) for creating this problem with the concept of auto grats.  They could easily follow the lead of most of the higher end luxury lines which have a no-tipping policy.  In fact, the first time we cruised on Seabourn and tried to "slip" some cash to a favorite crew member, she politely refused the tip and suggested we donate to the crew welfare fund that is handled by guest services.  In about 50 years of extensive cruising, it was the first time I had a tip refused.

 

But the mass market lines have created a monster with their tipping schemes.  While they tell you that auto tips are voluntary, there are many subtle ways they do their best to create "tipping guilt" among passengers.  One example is on some mass market lines where you must sign a bar tab and there is a place for "tips" although you have already paid auto-tips and likely had 18% added onto that drink price for another tip (and now they want you to add even more tips).  It is the same at some alternative restaurants where you pay extra to dine in the venue, but you get a "check" at the end of the meal with a place to add extra tips (again this is above the auto grats and the extra you have paid for the venue).  

 

Why do the lines do this?  It is all a "con" so they can market faux lower prices which attract a fair number of customers who shop for price when they cruise.  The luxury lines, on the other hand, know that most of their customers are seeking quality/luxury and the price is secondary.  So they price their product to include just about everything (truly all-inclusive).  My problem on those luxury lines is using up the non-refundable OBC (we once left a Seabourn cruise with over $500 of OBC).

 

It kind of gives me an idea that Southwest airlines should simply market all their flights at $9.99 per ticket and then have a mandatory "tip" add-on of hundreds of dollars :).  Of course this kind of deceptive pricing is illegal in the USA (and most places) when it comes to the airline...but there are still no laws/rules that apply to cruise pricing.   There is now a movement (at both the Federal and State levels) to control or ban so-called "resort fees" charged by many hotels.  It would be nice to see a similar movement regarding the cruise industry or at least some attempt at creating a "cruise passengers bill of rights."   Read the fine print of cruise contracts and you will realize that the customer has no rights when it comes to the cruise industry.

 

Hank

[c-boy]

  " I reduce my auto gratuity to $10-$12 PP PD at guest services on the first day. I have always had great service and never had a complaint. This proves to me that the crew always do the same for everyone without regard to anyone's individual gratuity"   

 

eh, no worries there mate. Someone else will pick up the slack

Edited November 5, 2022 by c-boy

[LouCoop]

18 hours ago, Kay S said:

Oh how exciting!  Another tipping thread!

 

I know the subject is cruise lines, but my daughter who waited tables for years (through high school, college, and graduate school) says big tippers get better service in restaurants.  That's her experience.  

 

I don't see the harm done if someone thinks he gets better service if he tips.  I don't see the harm done if someone thinks it makes no difference.  One's experience is always subjective.  However, this is a tipping thread, so let the games begin.

On the first day of one of our cruises I saw a man give our steward a 50$ bill and told him there is more were this comes from, so you know what to do. I thought this was rude and it seemed to make the steward uneasy as he knew we had heard him.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 There is now a movement (at both the Federal and State levels) to control or ban so-called "resort fees" charged by many hotels.  It would be nice to see a similar movement regarding the cruise industry or at least some attempt at creating a "cruise passengers bill of rights." 

 

 

The resort fee is mandatory. The "crew appreciation" is not with the "Standard" Princess fare. (However, most people agree that the staff deserve to be so appreciated.)

 

However, with Princess expecting 50% of passengers to book with the Plus fare and 25% to book with the Premier fare, both of which include the Crew Appreciation, pricing is like the lines that do include the crew tipping in the fare.

 

Now that Princess is sharing all Crew Appreciation money across the entire fleet, you are no longer truly rewarding those that directly serve you on your cruise unless you tip them directly.

 

[c-boy]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

 Read the fine print of cruise contracts and you will realize that the customer has no rights when it comes to the cruise industry.

fine print, what exactly are you looking for ?

[Bobbiegentry]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I am sure there are folks here who would chide you for reducing auto grats.  You have to love that HAL has changed the term to "Crew Appreciation."  But I chide the cruise lines (primarily the mass market lines) for creating this problem with the concept of auto grats.  They could easily follow the lead of most of the higher end luxury lines which have a no-tipping policy.  In fact, the first time we cruised on Seabourn and tried to "slip" some cash to a favorite crew member, she politely refused the tip and suggested we donate to the crew welfare fund that is handled by guest services.  In about 50 years of extensive cruising, it was the first time I had a tip refused.

 

But the mass market lines have created a monster with their tipping schemes.  While they tell you that auto tips are voluntary, there are many subtle ways they do their best to create "tipping guilt" among passengers.  One example is on some mass market lines where you must sign a bar tab and there is a place for "tips" although you have already paid auto-tips and likely had 18% added onto that drink price for another tip (and now they want you to add even more tips).  It is the same at some alternative restaurants where you pay extra to dine in the venue, but you get a "check" at the end of the meal with a place to add extra tips (again this is above the auto grats and the extra you have paid for the venue).  

 

Why do the lines do this?  It is all a "con" so they can market faux lower prices which attract a fair number of customers who shop for price when they cruise.  The luxury lines, on the other hand, know that most of their customers are seeking quality/luxury and the price is secondary.  So they price their product to include just about everything (truly all-inclusive).  My problem on those luxury lines is using up the non-refundable OBC (we once left a Seabourn cruise with over $500 of OBC).

 

It kind of gives me an idea that Southwest airlines should simply market all their flights at $9.99 per ticket and then have a mandatory "tip" add-on of hundreds of dollars :).  Of course this kind of deceptive pricing is illegal in the USA (and most places) when it comes to the airline...but there are still no laws/rules that apply to cruise pricing.   There is now a movement (at both the Federal and State levels) to control or ban so-called "resort fees" charged by many hotels.  It would be nice to see a similar movement regarding the cruise industry or at least some attempt at creating a "cruise passengers bill of rights."   Read the fine print of cruise contracts and you will realize that the customer has no rights when it comes to the cruise industry.

 

Hank

Diogenes would be proud. 

[bjkTX]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Folks could improve their travel experience by taking a few minutes to read-up on the local culture//mores of where they are going to visit, and then use that knowledge as a basic guide on how to behave.

 

Hank

Before we went on our British Isles cruise a couple of months ago I did a lot of research on tipping and currency requirements.  What I came away with was I really didn't need much in the way of Pounds or Euros because EVERYONE accepts a card since Covid.  As far as tipping I got a mixed response - but most said tipping wasn't expected or required.

 

NO ONE wanted a card for payment on our excursions - EVERYONE wanted cash!  And pretty much everyone stood there when it came to the obvious tipping time with that expecting look!  It was probably because they knew most of us were from America - people adapt quickly 🙂  None of it bothered me - I was prepared either way but I saw the look on the faces of some of our tour passengers as they got off the bus and noticed he was shaking hands with one hand and holding his tips in the other and they hadn't planned on tipping :-)

[avonlady6390]

For those who have cruised in the Caribbean know tipping is expected on shore excursions for the driver and the guide.  I've even experienced tipping in the restrooms particularly in Cozumel and Mexico.

[caribill]

2 minutes ago, avonlady6390 said:

For those who have cruised in the Caribbean know tipping is expected on shore excursions for the driver and the guide.  I've even experienced tipping in the restrooms particularly in Cozumel and Mexico.

 

In that area when tendering is done by private companies, the tender personnel expect to be tipped for bringing you from ship to shore.

[caribill]

When it comes to onboard tipping, the wording used by a number of travel agents is very deceptive.

 

For example, one company says

"Also, receive free drinks, Wi-Fi and gratuities on select sailings booked at eligible rates."

 

Of course the eligible rates are the Plus and Premier rates.

 

Drinks, W-Fi and gratuities are not free as it says. You are paying for them with those rates which only exist to pay for them.

 

[MissP22]

41 minutes ago, avonlady6390 said:

I've even experienced tipping in the restrooms particularly in Cozumel and Mexico.

Also in the Grenada cruise terminal. 

[MissP22]

39 minutes ago, caribill said:

 

In that area when tendering is done by private companies, the tender personnel expect to be tipped for bringing you from ship to shore.

That's a new one I haven't seen yet. 

[Kay S]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

In a way you have made my point.  Your post is all about American tipping culture.  But what often gets ignored (by Americans) is that outside of the USA/Canada, the tipping culture is completely different.  Travel in Australia and you will find that most folks do not tip.  Their culture supports the idea that waiters are paid a "living wage" and they do not expect tips (although that may be slowly changing). 

Yep.  My argument is about tipping in America.  Restaurant workers in America are not paid a living wage (in most cases).  They rely on tips to live.  That is the culture.  Cruise ships are a little different in that they are not always floating idle in American waters.  However, when a ship leaves from an American port, filled with lots of Americans, the tipping culture is likely to be American.

 

You will also see that elsewhere in this thread I have encouraged the "When in Rome" approach.  When in Sydney, do not tip the waiters.  Or in Tokyo or even Lincolnshire.  

[Hlitner]

14 minutes ago, Kay S said:

Yep.  My argument is about tipping in America.  Restaurant workers in America are not paid a living wage (in most cases).  They rely on tips to live.  That is the culture.  Cruise ships are a little different in that they are not always floating idle in American waters.  However, when a ship leaves from an American port, filled with lots of Americans, the tipping culture is likely to be American.

 

You will also see that elsewhere in this thread I have encouraged the "When in Rome" approach.  When in Sydney, do not tip the waiters.  Or in Tokyo or even Lincolnshire.  

I certainly would not leave a big tip in Lincolnshire :).  It might get me a big lecture about Americans.

 

Hank

[donaldsc]

5 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

I reduce my auto gratuity to $10-$12 PP PD at guest services on the first day. I have always had great service and never had a complaint. This proves to me that the crew always do the same for everyone without regard to anyone's individual gratuity. 

 

Do you tip extra at the end of the cruise to make up for the $10 auto gratuity or are you just being frugal?

 

DON

[Ombud]

I don't add to the tip but I don't subtract from the auto tip. I understand that we earn more here but I've seen those wages in the Philippines and know that they're being paid more on the ship. I stock snacks for room service & steward (and yes that's individual chip bags & chocolates, must appreciate them as they help themselves). I do not consider myself 'cheap' and am relieved that they don't stand at my table hoping for more still. I felt that was demeaning.  

 

FWIW I often eat out in the no tipping zone at home. Prefer it just added to the bill here too ~~~ hope that practice becomes more common

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, Kay S said:

or even Lincolnshire.  

Yup, no tips expected here!

[wowzz]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

They could easily follow the lead of most of the higher end luxury lines which have a no-tipping policy. 

Or even a mass market line like P&O that have removed autotips, and state that tips are not required anywhere on the ship.