Norovirus Caught on Koningsdam

[annandme]

We’re now on the Koningsdam where my wife picked up a norovirus.  She had a very rough night, spent most of the day in the medical center, and is now resting in our cabin.  The medical staff were great but I’m now expecting a bill for their services and was wondering if anyone with experience in getting a norovirus while on board a HAL ship ever got HAL to accept their responsibility and drop or lower the charges?

 

I kindly ask that people respond who also got a norovirus.

 

Thank you

[FOPMan]

I would expect that you ate not likely to see much, if any, reduction in any charges, save, perhaps, a restaurant fee or, perhaps, a reduction in HIA, if you participated.

 

Could you, perhaps, explain why you think HAL might have any responsibility? Was there a lack of hand sanitizer or hand washing stations available? 

[annandme]

4 minutes ago, FOPMan said:

I would expect that you ate not likely to see much, if any, reduction in any charges, save, perhaps, a restaurant fee or, perhaps, a reduction in HIA, if you participated.

 

Could you, perhaps, explain why you think HAL might have any responsibility? Was there a lack of hand sanitizer or hand washing stations available? 

I was told that full symptoms develop in less than 2 days and we’ve been at sea that whole time with no ports of call.  So, it happened on the ship.

Edited April 16, 2023 by annandme

[Boatdrill]

I hope your wife has a speedy and full recovery. Although she caught the virus on the ship, there's no telling how and when it came aboard. If you can verify that HAL was negligent about hygiene, you may have a case to ask for a discounted medical bill.  Has anyone else onboard been affected ? 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by Boatdrill

[annandme]

10 minutes ago, Boatdrill said:

I hope your wife has a speedy and full recovery. Although she caught the virus on the ship, there's no telling how and when it came aboard. If you can verify that HAL was negligent about hygiene, you may have a case to ask for a discounted medical bill.  Has anyone else onboard been affected ? 

 

I was told there were 4 other cases.

[Guest ldtr]

during this time of the year there are likely to be some cases on just about any large cruise ship operating in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

Cruise ship rates tend to be lower than in the general population.

 

Ships go to enhanced measures with relatively few cases. On Princess that number is 7 or more. Expect that HAL would be similar.

 

Unlikely that Hal has done anything negligent.

 

That said once ships go to enhanced measures and they start announcing that their are cases on board they will usually waive medical costs to encourage people to report cases.

 

Prior to that point, if it just a few cases below their enhanced measured threshold, they might not, and you would need to file with your insurance. You can ask if the costs will be waived.

Edited April 16, 2023 by ldtr

[annandme]

4 minutes ago, ldtr said:

during this time of the year there are likely to be some cases on just about any large cruise ship operating in the Northern Hemisphere.

 

Cruise ship rates tend to be lower than in the general population.

 

Ships go to enhanced measures with relatively few cases. On Princess that number is 7 or more. Expect that HAL would be similar.

 

Unlikely that Hal has done anything negligent.

 

That said once ships go to enhanced measures and they start announcing that their are cases on board they will usually waive medical costs to encourage people to report cases.

 

Prior to that point, if it just a few cases below their enhanced measured threshold, they might not, and you would need to file with your insurance. You can ask if the costs will be waived.

Thanks.  I plan to ask about this but wanted to poll my fellow CC travelers to see what to expect.

 

[oakridger]

It's a question that many people would be interested in.  I appreciate your bringing it up!

 

~Nancy

[oaktreerb]

A few years ago I got noro on a 7 day Alaska cruise.  There was an announcement when we were in Ketchikan (1st port) about an outbreak and we were asked to contact medical if we were ill.  I had symptoms on our excursion so I called to report, the nurse came to my room to take my temp and offer meds which I refused since I already had Imodium.  There was no billing from HAL.  I had to stay in my room for a couple of days.  My traveling partner didn’t get sick so could be out and about on the ship.

 

 I told the nurse I thought it was the crab legs I had for dinner, she said a group who flew in from Calif had symptoms of Noro.  Anyway, no charge for the visit.  Maybe because we were asked to report.  

 

Since then I always pack Musinex, Imodium, Tylenol, and other remedies in my travel bag.  It’s best to take them with you!

Edited April 16, 2023 by oaktreerb

[Alberta Quilter]

I had a similar experience to oaktreerb.  I was ill during the night and reported in the morning.  A nurse came to the room to take my temperature and leave a packet of forms for me to fill out (what I ate, where I was, that type of info).  I was isolated until 24 hours past my last symptom.  There were no charges from medical for the same reasons that oaktreerb mentioned.  I did receive an FCC for the one or two days I was isolated that could be used on my next cruise.  It was the per diem rate of the fare I paid.  This was back in 2015.

[SargassoPirate]

Not trying to be snarky, but since noro is spread by the fecal-oral route, it's easy to prevent.  Break the chain of transmission by washing your hands frequently and sanitize just before you start eating.  Sure, you may washy washy on the way in, but how many surfaces do you touch before you grab that roll to butter it?  The menu?  The bottom of your chair as you pull it in?

 

 

 

[Mary229]

11 hours ago, annandme said:

HAL ship ever got HAL to accept their responsibility and drop or lower the charges?

I am sorry, why should HAL be responsible?  4 cases among 2400+ passengers, perhaps the source is closer than you think. 
 

there is always someone sick everywhere you go.  

Edited April 16, 2023 by Mary229

[VMax1700]

Will your medical/travel insurance not cover the cost?

[CruiserBruce]

34 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I am sorry, why should HAL be responsible?  4 cases among 2400+ passengers, perhaps the source is closer than you think. 
 

there is always someone sick everywhere you go.  

Totally agree. but, of course, some one else is always responsible.

[terrydtx]

This is why we always buy travel insurance to cover expenses like medical on the ship or worse having to be medevacked off the ship. Most travel insurance companies will cover the medical expenses on the ship's infirmary. I had norovirus 10 years ago on a cruise but, I was not confined to the infirmary, and my travel insurance covered the cost of the ship provided meds. You can't really blame HAL for the few cases onboard, blame passengers who do not adhere to common sense sanitizing standards, like washing hands and using sanitizer before dinning.

[AKJonesy]

I had NORO on a cruise to Alaska and I was so sick for about 2 days.  I was NOT as conscientious as I am now with handwashing.  There are so many surfaces that you touch on a cruise ship that you have to be mindful.  I bring my pharmacy WITH me now when I travel especially after having NORO and Covid.  I doubt you can PROVE it's HAL's responsibility and it's sad to miss a few days of a cruise being sick.  Best wishes.  

[SargassoPirate]

Another step to take to protect yourself is to be wary of food workers wearing plastic gloves.  The only thing those gloves prevent is the wearer's hands from getting dirty.  They are, however, an excellent vector for cross contamination when they are worn for hours while touching multiple surfaces, including food contact surfaces and food. 

 

And if you want to have some fun, ask them why they are wearing gloves.  Better yet, ask the supervisors.  I've been doing this since the "magic disinfecting" gloves became ubiquitous during the pandemic.  The common answer is to protect the customers.  That's the perfect opening for my next question - how does touching dirty surfaces and then handling my food protect me?

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2023 by SargassoPirate

[cruising sister]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

Not trying to be snarky, but since noro is spread by the fecal-oral route, it's easy to prevent.  Break the chain of transmission by washing your hands frequently and sanitize just before you start eating.  Sure, you may washy washy on the way in, but how many surfaces do you touch before you grab that roll to butter it?  The menu?  The bottom of your chair as you pull it in?

 

 

 

Unfortunately hand sanitizer does not work on noro. You would need to go wash with soap and water before eating. That is why it is so easily spread. 

[cruising sister]

1 hour ago, Mary229 said:

I am sorry, why should HAL be responsible?  4 cases among 2400+ passengers, perhaps the source is closer than you think. 
 

there is always someone sick everywhere you go.  

4 today means possible 40 tomorrow. There can be exponential spread. That is why when the numbers go up they crack down. 

[ShipWalker]

13 minutes ago, cruising sister said:

Unfortunately hand sanitizer does not work on noro. You would need to go wash with soap and water before eating. That is why it is so easily spread. 

Here is the CDC statement on Norovirus and it's website.

 

"Hand sanitizer does not work well against norovirus.

 

Handwashing is always best. Wash your hands with soap and water for at least 20 seconds. You can use hand sanitizers in addition to hand washing, but hand sanitizer is not a substitute for washing your hands with warm water and soap."

 

Preventing Norovirus| CDC

Edited April 16, 2023 by ShipWalker

[Seasick Sailor]

I was surprised to see the automated hand washing machines in Koningsdam Lido area last month. (You put your hands in the machine and warm water and supposedly soap washes for 12 seconds) I prefer good old soap, water, and a good scrub. 

[SargassoPirate]

1 hour ago, cruising sister said:

Unfortunately hand sanitizer does not work on noro. You would need to go wash with soap and water before eating. That is why it is so easily spread. 

Although anecdotal at best, I've been on over 50 cruises, many many flights, buses, trains, taxis, and traveled in third world countries.  Never had Montezuma's Revenge.

 

I practice rigorous hygiene, wash my hands frequently, AND sanitize after going through the buffet or after handing back the menu in the MDR.  

 

 

 

 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

I was surprised to see the automated hand washing machines in Koningsdam Lido area last month. (You put your hands in the machine and warm water and supposedly soap washes for 12 seconds) I prefer good old soap, water, and a good scrub. 

They have been there for years and are sort of like a nice hand massage😊

[Destiny0315]

1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

I was surprised to see the automated hand washing machines in Koningsdam Lido area last month. (You put your hands in the machine and warm water and supposedly soap washes for 12 seconds) I prefer good old soap, water, and a good scrub. 

15 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

They have been there for years and are sort of like a nice hand massage😊

I too remember these being on HAL ships like the Maasdam and Veendam over a dozen years ago and at the time seeing HAL as being ahead of the curve compared to other lines on addressing the Norovirus issue which was a possible health concern on all ships then and still is.

[Mary229]

Just now, Destiny0315 said:

I too remember these being on HAL ships like the Maasdam and Veendam over a dozen years ago and at the time seeing HAL as being ahead of the curve compared to other lines on addressing the Norovirus issue which was a possible health concern on all ships then and still is.

I sailed on the Maasdam on the first cruise they instituted the service only buffet, that is - no self service.   HAL was a leader in this and is still one of the few that has controlled buffet service.