Curious About Tips

[icft]

1 hour ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I have always pre paid the auto gratuities, but I am now re-thinking this.  I find it interesting they would add 18 % gratuities when you book specialty restaurants and drinks, far in advance of receiving the service.  Despite pre paying this gratuity in good faith, when the bill comes there is a line for “additional gratuity”.  Why do they prompt for this when you have pre paid?  Very aggressive.  I have found the food and service received to be excellent quite often, but occasionally only average.  How do you differentiate if you’re pre-paying gratuities? I can understand why some would remove the gratuities and tip a cash amount to those that give excellent services.  Management would then have to be trusted to properly compensate and esteem the behind the scenes staff.  

I understand what you are saying and you have a valid point. But I think you are just needlessly frustrating yourself. None of these "gratuities" are really gratuities. They are required charges, part of the price, that you can fight if you want and get back. But do you really want to subject yourself to the aggravation while on vacation?

 

We just take the price plus tips as the actual charge with no tipping required. We treat it just like a place that has a no tipping policy. If we receive superior service we put something on that "additional gratuity" line. If blah service we just leave it blank.

 

They are just disguising the real price with this $xx plus 18% that you are required to pay. Just recognize they are slimy and move on. Buy if the price including slime is acceptable to you. Don't buy if it isn't. But don't ruin your vacation fighting about it - you won't change them.

[sparks1093]

20 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I’m not sure about that. Most are pledged as collateral. The individual cruise lines are the operator of the ships under their brand.

So they own the ships the way I own my house.

[firefly333]

On 5/21/2023 at 4:35 PM, MayorDrafty said:

 

 

With a total of $87 for the 6-day cruise.  

$87 for 6 days .. is it 14.75 per day. The math doesnt seem to work when i divide 6 into 87. 

 

Just curious. Hard to remember what every line charges .. sorry. 

[BlerkOne]

There is nothing slimy about cruise line gratuities and is nothing new. It is the industry standard and always has been. The only thing that has changed are the cruisers.

[icft]

50 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

There is nothing slimy about cruise line gratuities and is nothing new. It is the industry standard and always has been. The only thing that has changed are the cruisers.

Honest men often disagree and we disagree on this.

 

Please correct me if I misstate your position, but it appears to be that since it is the industry standard and always has been that it therefore is not slimy.

 

My position is that a gratuity is, as Merriam-Webster says, something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service. I think requiring the "gratuity" be paid before the service is received negates the "voluntary" nature of the payment. The fact there is a line on the receipt for "additional gratuity" while there is no line for reducing the amount you were required to pay up front further negates the voluntary aspect. No mechanism is provided to recoup the "gratuity" one was required to pay. In sum, it is not a gratuity but rather a required payment in order to receive the service.

 

I consider the misrepresentation of a required payment for the services as a gratuity to be slimy.

 

Now, I anticipate some will say, "but it goes to the servers and is therefore a tip." I reject that. If you hire an attorney to handle a matter you will bet a bill that will be itemized. It may have $300 per hour for the lead attorney times the hours put in by that attorney, then $170 per hour for a junior attorney times the hours for the junior attorney, then $100 per hour for a paralegal... But the fact the portions of the bill specify that those amounts are for certain people does not turn those charges into gratuities. The key is they are required payments.

 

The fact the entire industry does it (though I dispute they have always done it) does not make the cruise industry less slimy any more than the industry wide practices of used car salesmen makes them any less slimy.

 

We just disagree.

[MayorDrafty]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

$87 for 6 days .. is it 14.75 per day. The math doesnt seem to work when i divide 6 into 87. 

 

Just curious. Hard to remember what every line charges .. sorry. 

$14.50 per day.  This was back in late Feb/early March.

[n6uqqq]

I always prepay my gratuities and have no issue with it. I, however, do not care for how the drink receipts are printed out. The receipts on the Spirit for drinks call the built in tip of 18 percent a "service charge" and then list at the bottom "gratuity" (optional). I find this to be rather misleading and giving the appearance that you have not provided a tip. Most everyone out here knows this, but there are lots of blue cards that may not have a clue and then feel like they need to add a tip. On some ships I have seen it properly listed as "additional gratuity" which is a much fairer representation of what is actually going on.

[BlerkOne]

Some often accuse cruise lines of cutting back, but that reminds me of a pot calling the kettle black.

[coffeeboy77]

I think part of the problem lies with expectations.  Carnival used to say, and in fact JH has recently said that if you pay the gratuities, you’re done.  No further tipping is required and it’s not expected by the staff.  I used to believe this but not anymore.  The staff , I believe at times, definitely expect ‘additional gratuity’, either on the bill or cash.  

[Haljo1935]

14 hours ago, icft said:

...None of these "gratuities" are really gratuities. They are required charges, part of the price, that you can fight if you want and get back. But do you really want to subject yourself to the aggravation while on vacation?

 

...But don't ruin your vacation fighting about it - you won't change them.

@icft Respectfully, the "gratuities" (your quotes) are not required and there is no fight involved in getting them removed or adjusted  - a trip to Guest Services to fill out a very simple form handles it. If you want to retain the option to have them removed or adjusted, don't prepay them, as those cannot be adjusted. 

[icft]

11 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

@icft Respectfully, the "gratuities" (your quotes) are not required and there is no fight involved in getting them removed or adjusted  - a trip to Guest Services to fill out a very simple form handles it. If you want to retain the option to have them removed or adjusted, don't prepay them, as those cannot be adjusted. 

I was responding to another poster who was lamenting the gratuities on on specialty dining. If you book before the cruise you have to pay the gratuity and I was saying they should just consider it part of the price and move on; their vacation shouldn't be taken up standing in lines etc.to fix such minor things. One's time and peace of mind is valuable.

 

Just out of curiosity, since we have never had occasion to look into it, can you dine at a specialty restaurant then, after having signed the bill with the gratuity on it, go to guest services and have the gratuity removed? We don't worry about such things normally but if the waiter were to spill red wine all over us, then be seen dropping my meal and picking the steak off the floor and putting it back on the plate before serving it (of course I would send it back for another) I could be moved to go to guest services to complain and if removing the gratuity is an option I would probably do so while there.

[d9704011]

14 minutes ago, icft said:

We don't worry about such things normally but if the waiter were to spill red wine all over us, then be seen dropping my meal and picking the steak off the floor and putting it back on the plate before serving it (of course I would send it back for another) I could be moved to go to guest services to complain and if removing the gratuity is an option I would probably do so while there.

You're a model of grace.  I think I'd immediately bring this to the attention of the person in charge at the venue and work things out from there PDQ!

[n6uqqq]

On 5/25/2023 at 6:50 AM, jimbo5544 said:

I am sure that would warm their inner being….starve their families, but that open communication you would offer overides all those trivial items like basic subsidence.    

I thinks you mean subsistence? 

Edited May 27, 2023 by n6uqqq

[Old Fart Cruisers]

1 hour ago, n6uqqq said:

I thinks you mean subsistence? 

How many points are going to deduct for spelling?  But if you are going to be critical, shouldn't that by I think, not I thinks?

[n6uqqq]

11 minutes ago, Old Fart Cruisers said:

How many points are going to deduct for spelling?  But if you are going to be critical, shouldn't that by I think, not I thinks?

I am not being critical, they are two entirely different words. And the thinks part was intentional but grammatically incorrect for effect. Subsidence is the gradual caving in or sinking of a land. 

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, n6uqqq said:

I am not being critical, they are two entirely different words. And the thinks part was intentional but grammatically incorrect for effect. Subsidence is the gradual caving in or sinking of a land. 

I believe you ought to have phrased it 'Me thinks...' for clarity.

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, icft said:

I was responding to another poster who was lamenting the gratuities on on specialty dining. If you book before the cruise you have to pay the gratuity and I was saying they should just consider it part of the price and move on; their vacation shouldn't be taken up standing in lines etc.to fix such minor things. One's time and peace of mind is valuable.

 

Just out of curiosity, since we have never had occasion to look into it, can you dine at a specialty restaurant then, after having signed the bill with the gratuity on it, go to guest services and have the gratuity removed? We don't worry about such things normally but if the waiter were to spill red wine all over us, then be seen dropping my meal and picking the steak off the floor and putting it back on the plate before serving it (of course I would send it back for another) I could be moved to go to guest services to complain and if removing the gratuity is an option I would probably do so while there.

No, because the specialty restaurant upcharge is a service charge .  You aren't charged 18% ontop of the $42 steakhouse.  You still ate the steak.   

[Elaine5715]

3 hours ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I think part of the problem lies with expectations.  Carnival used to say, and in fact JH has recently said that if you pay the gratuities, you’re done.  No further tipping is required and it’s not expected by the staff.  I used to believe this but not anymore.  The staff , I believe at times, definitely expect ‘additional gratuity’, either on the bill or cash.  

Actually, they don't.  Posters on social media make it sounds like it rains cash on board but reality is the opposite.  I spend many hours sitting at the bar and the vast majority of people just sign their name without writing in an extra tip.  The bartenders don't even glance at the receipt. 

[Haljo1935]

8 minutes ago, Elaine5715 said:

No, because the specialty restaurant upcharge is a service charge .  You aren't charged 18% ontop of the $42 steakhouse.  You still ate the steak.   

Steakhouse does incur the additional 18% - it shows on the receipt. 

[Elaine5715]

19 hours ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I have always pre paid the auto gratuities, but I am now re-thinking this.  I find it interesting they would add 18 % gratuities when you book specialty restaurants and drinks, far in advance of receiving the service.  Despite pre paying this gratuity in good faith, when the bill comes there is a line for “additional gratuity”.  Why do they prompt for this when you have pre paid?  Very aggressive.  I have found the food and service received to be excellent quite often, but occasionally only average.  How do you differentiate if you’re pre-paying gratuities? I can understand why some would remove the gratuities and tip a cash amount to those that give excellent services.  Management would then have to be trusted to properly compensate and esteem the behind the scenes staff.  

You don't prepaid 18% and the service charge for the steakhouse.  The $48 upcharge includes the gratuities.  You now prepaid for the meal thanks to the guests who would make reservations and then not show up.   

[Elaine5715]

2 minutes ago, Haljo1935 said:

Steakhouse does incur the additional 18% - it shows on the receipt. 

No, you don't, 

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, n6uqqq said:

I thinks you mean subsistence? 

You thinks correctly

[Haljo1935]

1 hour ago, Elaine5715 said:

No, you don't, 

That's pre-paid; I was talking about onboard. So we're likely talking different scenarios. 

[sparks1093]

16 hours ago, coffeeboy77 said:

I think part of the problem lies with expectations.  Carnival used to say, and in fact JH has recently said that if you pay the gratuities, you’re done.  No further tipping is required and it’s not expected by the staff.  I used to believe this but not anymore.  The staff , I believe at times, definitely expect ‘additional gratuity’, either on the bill or cash.  

I've never had a staff member on any line that has even come remotely close to articulating they expect additional. If they have done something over and above for us they get extra. If they have only done the basic job they don't. 

[Butterbean1000]

On 5/27/2023 at 1:30 AM, icft said:

I understand what you are saying and you have a valid point. But I think you are just needlessly frustrating yourself. None of these "gratuities" are really gratuities. They are required charges, part of the price, that you can fight if you want and get back. But do you really want to subject yourself to the aggravation while on vacation?

 

We just take the price plus tips as the actual charge with no tipping required. We treat it just like a place that has a no tipping policy. If we receive superior service we put something on that "additional gratuity" line. If blah service we just leave it blank.

 

They are just disguising the real price with this $xx plus 18% that you are required to pay. Just recognize they are slimy and move on. Buy if the price including slime is acceptable to you. Don't buy if it isn't. But don't ruin your vacation fighting about it - you won't change them.

Just thinking out loud.  If you add an additional tip, does that go to the server who gave excellent service or is that pooled?