Looking for "Value" in Cruising

[Hlitner]

This is topic that has recently become dear to my heart, and I thought it might be fun to start a dedicated thread.  From reading lots of CC posts, and meeting many folks on our cruises, it has occurred to me that many cruisers make their cruise booking decisions on very narrow criteria.  For example, there are many folks who profess to be "loyal" to a particular line.  There are others that are addicted to a particular itinerary, length of a trip (i.e. 5 days, 7 days, etc).  And than there are those who simply "know better" and always book their cruises a certain way (such as directly with a cruise line) and simply ignore other ideas that can save them a lot of money.

 

The cruise industry (we have been cruisers for over 50 years) is "dynamic" and has undergone many changes over the decades.  We think that the COVID shutdown has caused another dynamic change in how cruises are priced and what is delivered for that price.  Look at the various cruise line threads on CC and you will find numerous posts about "cut backs,"  "new packages,"  more onboard fees (such as for room service or previously included venues), etc.

 

I have no answer for those who put "loyalty" ahead of critical thinking, so will ignore those folks and assume they will continue on their merry way.  But for those who are seeking "value" we think many need to open their minds, do the math, look at the current reality (as opposed to what they experienced in the past), and except a very basic tenant.  "Value is not the same as price."  If you simply want cheap, then read no further and look for the cheapest cruise/cabin.

 

But for those that seek value, you need to look beyond what you initially pay for a cruise, the amount of a deposit, or loyalty.  Shockingly (for some) I could say that some of the best values in cruising may be often found on the premium/luxury lines!  Consider that we recently took a Seabourn cruise (a small ship luxury line..by any measure) for about $400 per person/day!  Sounds expensive?  Consider that once we paid for that cruise, we did not pay one single penny more for anything aboard (other than to use some on board credit).   Consider that if we had booked a comparable cabin (small suite) on a mass market line we would have liketly paid $250 to $600 per person day and then had to also pay for drink packages, add-ons for some onboard dining, tips (laughingly now called "crew appreciation") etc.  And after paying all that money (on the large mass market line) we would have faced the usual queues for dining, fighting our way into a crowded bar/lounge, waiting in a queue for tender tickets and than cooking our heels until our ticket was called, having to deal with annoying ship photographers, having our peace interrupted with announcements of onboard sales, etc!

 

Speaking of luxury lines, the first time we ever cruised on any luxury line was years ago on the Crystal Harmony!  That ship has a few inside cabins, and they were priced relatively cheap.  The cabin was nothing special, but it got us our first luxury cruise experience with superior food, few queues, fellow passengers who did not treasure their "wife beater" tops, backward baseball caps indoors, etc.  These days, there are some "value" cabins found on luxury lines which will usually be outside suites (no balconies) or the lowest category suites/w balcony.  Interestingly, on many of these luxury lines the lowest price suite is exactly the same size (and layout) as suites in a much higher category!  What is the difference?  Location!  We have suites in the best locations and the worst locations and the reality is that it made zero difference when it came to our enjoyment.  

 

We also have this so-called category oft referred to as "Premium" cruise lines.  This would be lines like Viking Ocean, Oceania, Azamara and a few others.  Sales and Promotions can often make these lines a decent "value" although one does need to be cognizant of what is included in the fare.  Oceania and Viking, for example, do not generally include adult drinks (other than at lunch/dinner) without paying extra.

 

And finally I will touch on a sensitive subject here on CC, which is how one books a cruise!  Any cruise.  In nearly all cases, shopping around among multiple high volume, reputable, cruise agencies will yield significant overall savings.  7-10% is not unusual, although the real overall savings will vary depending on cruise line, lenght of cruise, etc.  This is also another loyalty issue.  We have told our favorite cruise agent that we are only loyal as long as she can give us the best deal!  Period!  Loyalty is a two way street.  You be loyal to me with the best overall deal and I will be loyal to you :).  That is why we have always used more than one cruise agency (one agency does not have the best deals for every cruise line).  And here is an ugly truth (at least for us).  In nearly 50 years of booking far more than 100 cruises, we have only ONCE, found the best deal by booking directly with a cruise line.  And that was because that particular cruise line did not take bookings any other way (it was Renaissance Cruise Lines).  Twice (with Princess and Oceania) we have challenged cruise line reps to match the deal we could get from cruise agencies and they failed (big time).  The Princess rep actually explained that they do not try "to compete with cruise/travel agencies" because they need those agencies (who book the vast majority of all cruises).  So why do many folks continue to book direct?  I guess for the same reason that some folks are happy to pay the sticker price for a new car :).

 

Hank

[Ashland]

I'll stick with RCI...booking directly when the schedule opens. My price points have rarely gone down and we choose the suite we want. After 45 cruises with them and at our age we'll be on our "merry way" and what's familiar to us, but did enjoy reading your post.

 

As far as buying a new car...never sticker price usually cash and at a good deal.

 

Thanks.

[Toofarfromthesea]

It's not a one size fits all world.  People decide on what cruise to take based on a variety of factors, of which 'value' is only one.  Your points are well made if the goal is maximizing value.  That isn't everyone's priority.  You take far more cruises than most people on here so your priorities may be different.

 

For example, you kind of deride loyalty in choosing a cruise line.  Maybe it is just that the loyal person has found a line that is simpatico with them and they don't want to risk having a lesser experience on their one cruise per year or two by experimenting with another line, even one with better value.  That isn't abandoning critical thinking, it is applying critical thinking to a situation that you may have trouble relating to, given the number and variety of cruises you take.  If you have a less satisfying cruise it is 'oh well the next one, in a couple of months, will be better' whereas for someone else it is their year's or 2 year's quota of cruising.  It may not be loyalty to a line for the sake of accumulating point towards getting perks, but loyalty to an experience they enjoy.  Good enough may be the enemy of better, but it is still good enough.

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

It's not a one size fits all world.  People decide on what cruise to take based on a variety of factors, of which 'value' is only one.  Your points are well made if the goal is maximizing value.  That isn't everyone's priority.  You take far more cruises than most people on here so your priorities may be different.

 

For example, you kind of deride loyalty in choosing a cruise line.  Maybe it is just that the loyal person has found a line that is simpatico with them and they don't want to risk having a lesser experience on their one cruise per year or two by experimenting with another line, even one with better value.  That isn't abandoning critical thinking, it is applying critical thinking to a situation that you may have trouble relating to, given the number and variety of cruises you take.  If you have a less satisfying cruise it is 'oh well the next one, in a couple of months, will be better' whereas for someone else it is their year's or 2 year's quota of cruising.  It may not be loyalty to a line for the sake of accumulating point towards getting perks, but loyalty to an experience they enjoy.  Good enough may be the enemy of better, but it is still good enough.

 

 

 

 

 

I can agree with you up to a point, and that point is:  "good enough" may be fine as long as you are enjoying your trip.

 

So many people fill the various cruise forums bemoaning how their cruise line of choice, to which they've been loyal for XX cruises or years, is just not the same as it used to be, or is no longer enjoyable -- yet they continue to book cruise after cruise with them. When pressed, they'll say they are reluctant to give up their "loyalty status".

 

Honestly, on most lines if you add up the perks that such "status" gets you, it may be peanuts or up to a couple hundred dollars. Is that really worth hanging in there when you're not happy with the line? Why not try something new and see if it might be more to your liking?  Worst case scenario it will confirm that your original line is still better and then perhaps you'll be less likely to bellyache about it.

 

People have varying degrees of flexibility, I get that. I'm very flexible and at any given time I am likely to have cruises booked with multiple lines. I don't expect them all to do things the same way, and I try to enjoy the differences. But I do understand that some people want the exact same experience every time. However, in these times of cutbacks and extra added costs, it seems kind of unlikely that this will happen, leading again to unhappiness among those who can't be flexible.

 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

It's not a one size fits all world.  People decide on what cruise to take based on a variety of factors, of which 'value' is only one.  Your points are well made if the goal is maximizing value.  That isn't everyone's priority.  You take far more cruises than most people on here so your priorities may be different.

 

For example, you kind of deride loyalty in choosing a cruise line.  Maybe it is just that the loyal person has found a line that is simpatico with them and they don't want to risk having a lesser experience on their one cruise per year or two by experimenting with another line, even one with better value.  That isn't abandoning critical thinking, it is applying critical thinking to a situation that you may have trouble relating to, given the number and variety of cruises you take.  If you have a less satisfying cruise it is 'oh well the next one, in a couple of months, will be better' whereas for someone else it is their year's or 2 year's quota of cruising.  It may not be loyalty to a line for the sake of accumulating point towards getting perks, but loyalty to an experience they enjoy.  Good enough may be the enemy of better, but it is still good enough.

 

 

I agree with your points but think it is still mostly about value.  What seems to be discounted is that different people define value differently.   I have no problem understanding how one person can get a lot of value out of an inexpensive cruise, while another would need an all inclusive luxury experience.   What seems to be often lacking in these discussions is that one's personal preferences do not necessarily define what others might value (or not value).     

[Aquahound]

39 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

What seems to be often lacking in these discussions is that one's personal preferences do not necessarily define what others might value (or not value).     

 

So, are you saying that's it ok if I see no value in booking Oceania?  😉

[Joebucks]

I have done plenty of cruises where we paid less than $100pp per day, and we had a great time. Believe it or not, some people can find enjoyment even if there are backwards baseball caps or the fear of "nickel and dimes."

 

Consumer credit card debt is nearing an all-time high. People will quickly blame their job's pay, but never admit their ridiculous spending habits. I can't even quantify the number of people who tell me "how lucky I am" to go on as many trips as I do. Meanwhile, watching those people buy "packages", "higher quality", "splurges," or however else to want to justify their overspending. 

 

Last year, I went to Mexico for a few days. The first words out of most people's mouths was asking about "all-inclusive" I did nothing of the sorts and boy the looks on their faces. Imagine staying at a normal hotel and buying cheap alcohol and tacos out of pocket instead of paying 3x for "free stuff."

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I can agree with you up to a point, and that point is:  "good enough" may be fine as long as you are enjoying your trip.

 

 

 But I do understand that some people want the exact same experience every time. However, in these times of cutbacks and extra added costs, it seems kind of unlikely that this will happen, leading again to unhappiness among those who can't be flexible.

 

 

As to the first point, I'm talking about situations where I'm enjoying the cruise.  I think that implied by 'good enough'.  If I cease to enjoy it of course I would look elsewhere.  But if I'm still enjoying the line I'll stay with them - not for points or status - but because I cruise infrequently so I don't want to take the chance of getting a worse experience because something else looked like a better value.

 

As to the second point, I can't imagine anyone expecting the exact same experience every time.  I think it is more subtle than that - a general way of doing things.  I think some people are determined to make themselves unhappy by focussing on that have changes.  But that's not everyone.  For me I'm just happy to be someplace comfortable where I know how things are done.

 

I think what motivated me to respond to the OP was the notion that sailing on one cruise line was an ego driven desire to amass points and status at the cost of giving up critical thinking.  Which seemed like a narrow and unkind way of looking at it, even if it may have fit some people.  Because, as I started my original response, it's not a one-size-fits-all world.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Toofarfromthesea

[Toofarfromthesea]

1 hour ago, ldubs said:

 

I agree with your points but think it is still mostly about value.  What seems to be discounted is that different people define value differently.   I have no problem understanding how one person can get a lot of value out of an inexpensive cruise, while another would need an all inclusive luxury experience.   What seems to be often lacking in these discussions is that one's personal preferences do not necessarily define what others might value (or not value).     

 

A very good point.  Some people highly value relatively exotic itineraries, great excursion opportunities, on-board lectures and educational events, etc., and that's fine.  But I don't. I'm all about the being on the ship experience.  Maybe I'll get off at a port and go on an excursion if there happens to be an historical site i'm interested in, like Pearl Harbor.  But mostly I like to stay on the ship and enjoy the ambiance.  But that's not for everyone.

[George C]

We book suites but definitely shop around for the best deal , we rarely book the newest ship since we can sometimes save a thousand or so by buying a older sister ship with the same features, not loyal to any one line , celebrity suites are so overpriced recently I think we will mostly book rccl suites or MSc yacht club, I need to research the higher end lines , entertainment is one of the keys to our choices. 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Aquahound said:

 

So, are you saying that's it ok if I see no value in booking Oceania?  😉

 

Haha, OK with me.   

 

 

[Honolulu Blue]

As I grow older, I find more and more value in paying a fair amount to get the experience I want with a minimum of stuff I DON'T want.  

[Pyrate13]

We've never spent $5600 (Hank's quote of $400 per person) on a 7 day cruise and never will. I do not find any value in that at all. I can enjoy my cruise just as much as the big spenders do, and that means value to me. 

[Tapi]

My definition of "value" changes based on what I'm in the mood for, but I always want to feel like I'm getting my money's worth. 

 

I've found great value paying a couple of thousand dollars on a luxury line or a suite, but I've also found great value paying $49 to sail on a 2 night budget cruise. 

 

 

 

[Mum2Mercury]

I must side with the people who say "value" is a word with multiple meanings.  Specific thoughts pertaining to this discussion: 

 

- Being "loyal" to a specific cruise line can be a good financial decision.  Most of us won't cruise enough to get to the top of the loyalty ladder /get good rewards for multiple cruise lines, so sticking to ONE line means we can -- eventually -- build up those sweet loyalty rewards.  

- Of course, this assumes that the rewards are beneficial to you.  If, for example, you don't drink alcohol, Royal Caribbean's four free Diamond drinks each day (worth potentially $40-60 to a drinker) mean nothing to you.  The OP mentions that he or she might spend $250-600/day on some lines for extras; we don't spend that much in a week.  The theme here, of course, is, Know Thyself.  

- Totally agree that cruise pricing is "dynamic" -- what industry doesn't change? -- and we are in a time of flux right now.  Personally, I used to think I had "best for us" figured out; now things are changing, and I'm watching /learning, but I don't think I'm on top of my game again -- yet.  

- We book with the cruise line.  Not because we have our head in the sand and don't see any other way but because we've tried multiple times with multiple cruises and multiple travel agents, and we just don't find any savings.  Perhaps this is because we always book low-priced cruises in the fall, which have little "fat to trim"?  Our cruises last year ranged from $99-384/person.  I know I've personally tried to save with travel agents and have decided it's not worth the effort -- at least not for the budget-priced cruises we choose.  

- For the same price, I'd rather book with the cruise line and maintain control of my own booking; that is, if I find a price drop -- admittedly, not something that's happened in a while -- I like the freedom to call in and manage the price match myself.  

 

Overall, I see a lot of hubris in the OP's post.  A lot of assumptions.  

[Mum2Mercury]

17 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Your points are well made if the goal is maximizing value.  That isn't everyone's priority.

Well stated; for example, when our children were younger, we valued a larger, carefully-chosen cabin.  And the school schedule /our work schedule meant we had to cruise certain weeks.  Now we're retired and much more "free" and choose to cruise more often in less-carefully cultivated circumstances.  What was right for our lifestyle back then is no longer best for this stage of life.  

11 hours ago, George C said:

We book suites but definitely shop around for the best deal ... 

Whereas I'd consider the cost of a suite wasted money.  Value is in the eye of the beholder.  

41 minutes ago, Pyrate13 said:

We've never spent $5600 (Hank's quote of $400 per person) on a 7 day cruise and never will. I do not find any value in that at all. I can enjoy my cruise just as much as the big spenders do, and that means value to me. 

I have spent more than that on a single cruise -- but it included three balcony rooms for the six of us.  And it was in summer.  Now that we're retired, I'd expect 3-4 cruises (for the two of us in fall season) for that same price!  

I'm not being irrational or failing to use common sense; rather, my circumstances have changed over the years.  If the cruise line can use "dynamic pricing", I can us "dynamic critical thinking".  

[Pyrate13]

Spending that for three balconies is far different than spending it on a single cabin.

[K32682]

Value is subjective and varies wildly. I'd rather spend $10,000 on a cruise that went where I wanted it to go in a manner I find acceptable as opposed to $1,000 on a crap cruise going to crap places with lager louts and lunkheads. I didn't work hard to forgo the finer things in life. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by K32682

[cruisemom42]

18 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

If the cruise line can use "dynamic pricing", I can us "dynamic critical thinking".  

 

This is an excellent point and in a way encapsulates what I was trying to say in my earlier post about being flexible.

 

On a separate note:

 

There are a lot of mistaken assumptions about "value".  It's not just about the $$, as I think we all know. Human beings have a major tendency to "rationalize" their choices based on what they can afford. If the only way they can afford to cruise is in an $80/night cabin, and they enjoy cruising, they will rationalize away all of the less pleasant things associated with that price tag. I don't think any of us would really "choose" to be on a cruise where drunks are throwing up in public spaces and brawls are commonly posted online....

 

As a keen observer of human nature, I've known so many friends and colleagues over the years who have said I'd never spend $$$ on a (car, vacation, watch, whatever). Then, as soon as they can afford it, they are doing the same.

 

[Honolulu Blue]

58 minutes ago, Tapi said:

My definition of "value" changes based on what I'm in the mood for, but I always want to feel like I'm getting my money's worth. 

I think this is very true, and especially true for me.  The music charters I've taken (and will take) are far more expensive per day than any of my more "ordinary" cruises, but so is the value I expect them to provide for me.  Let's just say I haven't had a cruise yet where I regret paying too much.

[LHT28]

Value  can mean different things to different people

For those that do not travel most of the year

Having 1  or 2 cruises per year 

My "Value"  is having  a ship with less pax 

better quality food

less  noise with quieter  ambiance

I do not mind paying more   for  an experience that  suits our  needs/wants

 

We do not book top suites or upper lever cabins  quite happy in an Ocean view  or balcony

 

Spend YOUR money on what suits you  best  & not worry about how other spend theirs  😉

 

 

[Mum2Mercury]

2 hours ago, K32682 said:

Value is subjective and varies wildly. I'd rather spend $10,000 on a cruise that went where I wanted it to go in a manner I find acceptable as opposed to $1,000 on a crap cruise going to crap places with lager louts and lunkheads. I didn't work hard to forgo the finer things in life. 

Eh, I have a couple problems with this: 

- Fallacy of forced choice:  the 10K and the 1K cruises aren't the only options available.  

- I can appreciate items at a number of price points, but my expectations are different.  For example, if I decide to pick up McDonald's for my family tonight, my expectations are low -- in line with the price point.  On the other hand, if we go out to a fine dining restaurant, I expect more of "an experience", more ambiance and certainly high caliber food.  Neither of these options is good vs. bad, but my expectations vary based upon the cost.  

[LHT28]

2 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Eh, I have a couple problems with this: 

- Fallacy of forced choice:  the 10K and the 1K cruises aren't the only options available.  

- I can appreciate items at a number of price points, but my expectations are different.  For example, if I decide to pick up McDonald's for my family tonight, my expectations are low -- in line with the price point.  On the other hand, if we go out to a fine dining restaurant, I expect more of "an experience", more ambiance and certainly high caliber food.  Neither of these options is good vs. bad, but my expectations vary based upon the cost.  

Some go to Mc D's  with the expectations of a fine dining restaurant   same with cruise lines 🙂

 

 

[K32682]

2 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Eh, I have a couple problems with this: 

- Fallacy of forced choice:  the 10K and the 1K cruises aren't the only options available.  

- I can appreciate items at a number of price points, but my expectations are different.  For example, if I decide to pick up McDonald's for my family tonight, my expectations are low -- in line with the price point.  On the other hand, if we go out to a fine dining restaurant, I expect more of "an experience", more ambiance and certainly high caliber food.  Neither of these options is good vs. bad, but my expectations vary based upon the cost.  

 

Somewhat dubious comparison. Your family still has to eat and if you can't afford a fine restaurant then McDs is not an unreasonable alternative. But people don't have to cruise and money spent of a vacation I won't enjoy is money wasted. I'd rather have fewer but better cruises than otherwise. 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by K32682

[XBGuy]

When this post popped up, yesterday, I went to work on an epistle espousing various views.  Obviously, I did not post it.  I decided to let a few others post and see what ideas I could steal from them.

 

All the twenty-something above posts make good sense to me.  

 

Of course, you know I am going to add my $.02 worth,

 

I agree with the posters that feel that the definition of "value" varies from person to person.  I also agree with the OP's comment that value should not be confused with cost.  To define value I like to use the well-known comment that contrasts cost and value:

 

Cost is what I pay somebody to obtain something from them.  Value is what somebody will pay me to obtain something for me.

 

You can see how I can attach value to things like stock investments or the disposition of a car when I want to trade it in for a new one.  However, since I do not engage in the trading of pleasure cruises, the concept of a cruise having value fails me.

 

In my high school economics class (the last one I took) I learned that an important factor in making decisions (and this is more than just buying decisions) is the anticipation that the return will be commensurate with the investment.  The investment can consist of multiple components such as monetary, emotional, time, effort.  Similarly, the return can consist of multiple components such as monetary, emotional, personal satisfaction.  Of course, the good news is that everybody gets to construct his/her own weighting scale to rationalize why the return is or is not commensurate with the investment for any decision.

 

One more piece of theory.  I understand the difference between needs and wants.  I need to eat and drink.  I want to drink wine.  I am not only able to afford to drink wine with my dinner, I can afford to drink some pretty nice wine with dinner  Sadly, I can't afford to drink Screagle, or DRC, or Petrus.  That is just the economic reality, and I know that I live under that constraint, Unlike having the need to eat and drink, I don't need to cruise.  I want to cruise.

 

So, this is how the XBGuys make a cruising decision. 

 

We identify a cruise we want to take.  I am not going to describe how we came to that conclusion, but you can reasonably conclude that it is based on personal wants and expectations,  If we can monetarily afford it, we book it.