Enhanced elevator system

[Scottdalfonso]

10 hours ago, bg2310 said:

t goes back to what I said originally - how is a system supposed to know how many people are getting on an elevator without the relevant input?

I don't think it NEEDS to know this... you push the floor you want, it comes, and it takes you directly to that floor- why does how many people getting on matter? 

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Scottdalfonso said:

I don't think it NEEDS to know this... you push the floor you want, it comes, and it takes you directly to that floor- why does how many people getting on matter? 

In the absence of an accurate count of riders waiting to go to deck X, the system will prioritize fuller cars, and/or the car for X will arrive and all those waiting will not fit.

 

The land based facilities where I regularly see these systems clearly ask that each individual make a request at the kiosk.

[zoepipes]

So right now Icon is the only ship that has the enhanced elevators?

[Scottdalfonso]

15 minutes ago, zoepipes said:

So right now Icon is the only ship that has the enhanced elevators?

On royal...Yes.  They have them on the newer MSC ships, as well

[gavvy]

My office has had this system for 5 years or so, it makes it more efficient and saves power by only dispatching an elevator to the floor that needs it.  You will still stop at other floors on the way to your destination like before, it just makes it more efficient.

 

One good thing is you know what door the elevator will arrive at in advance, so stops people rocking up and jumping in before you have the chance as you are the wrong side of the bank of doors.  However if there are too many of you waiting and you cant get in then you will have to go back and call another like before.  You are not guaranteed an empty elevator and there could be more waiting to get in than it has capacity for.

 

Of course you always get someone who forgets the system and jumps in and then gets confused when the buttons wont work, they then have to jump out and call a new one.

 

 

 

Edited January 26 by gavvy

[gavvy]

3 hours ago, Scottdalfonso said:

I don't think it NEEDS to know this... you push the floor you want, it comes, and it takes you directly to that floor- why does how many people getting on matter? 

 

As far as I am aware it will still stop at other floors, you are not getting an exclusive lift to just your floor.  It just makes the dispatch more efficient as the computer knows in advance how many floors to go too.

 

I think only the Yacht club get the priority access, if they call it on a certain flor it will take it to where they want without stopping

Edited January 26 by gavvy

[tscoffey]

3 hours ago, Scottdalfonso said:

I don't think it NEEDS to know this... you push the floor you want, it comes, and it takes you directly to that floor- why does how many people getting on matter? 

In most situations it will be tangential. But in heavy use (like in a large office building, the period from 7:40AM to 8:40AM, when a large percentage of a building's occupants will be arriving) - the dispatch algorithm needs to assign the car to any specific call that best optimizes the use of not only that car, but all the other ones in that bank of cars. One of the criteria that becomes important is how 'full' a car already is (because you don't want to assign an already 'full' car to yet another call, when a less empty one might be better). One of the negative experiences you seek to minimize is 'caller refusal' situations, where an 'almost' full car arrives at a call, but the caller doesn't board it, assessing it as too full to get into. That translates into a wasted call, plus likely a wasted stop for those in that car. Both are perceived negatives from a rider experience. So if the dispatch system can be 'told' (or can make a 'reasonable guess') of how many callers are wanting to travel to a specific floor, the algorithm can better optimize their car assignment.

 

(A 'reasonable guess' for a cruise ship might be that, during certain time periods - perhaps before/after meal time, or theater shows - a single button press is more likely to be for 2 people, not one, assuming that a pair of travelers in the same cabin are riding together (and also not following the "rules" correctly about button presses), whereas 2+ presses during that same period is actually 2+ people (who are following the "rules" correctly). But during lighter traffic periods, a single press is assumed to be 1 person. It's all tricky, and subject to a lot of assumptions about normal/heavy usage period, etc.)

Edited January 26 by tscoffey

[Mum2Mercury]

I watched the video, and I'm definitely interested to see how this system works in person, but my initial impression is ho-hum:  

- I don't think the elevators were a problem in the first place.  Sure, they are crowded on Embarkation and Disembarkation days, and dinner /shows can crowd them for a short time.  But overall, I really don't see a problem with the "old system".  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  

- It seems that the new system will still have a few quirks, and we're just trading one set of issues for another.  

- Something no one's really mentioned:  this more complex system is going to come with a higher price tag.  I'm not thrilled with my cruise ticket going up to "solve" a non-existent problem.  

- I'm concerned that this more complex system will break more easily than a traditional elevator, and since the four (four?) elevators in an elevator bank will operate /cooperate as one item, I'm thinking that if one goes down, they'll all go down.  

 

[tscoffey]

24 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I watched the video, and I'm definitely interested to see how this system works in person, but my initial impression is ho-hum:  

- I don't think the elevators were a problem in the first place.  Sure, they are crowded on Embarkation and Disembarkation days, and dinner /shows can crowd them for a short time.  But overall, I really don't see a problem with the "old system".  Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  

- It seems that the new system will still have a few quirks, and we're just trading one set of issues for another.  

- Something no one's really mentioned:  this more complex system is going to come with a higher price tag.  I'm not thrilled with my cruise ticket going up to "solve" a non-existent problem.  

- I'm concerned that this more complex system will break more easily than a traditional elevator, and since the four (four?) elevators in an elevator bank will operate /cooperate as one item, I'm thinking that if one goes down, they'll all go down.  

 

"Destination Dispatch" has been around for decades. It is especially prominent in cities in Asia (Japan, China, Singapore), and is becoming more prominent in the US and Canada. 

I can't speak to the price, but one could argue that since the cars have no interior destination buttons, the cost is lower per car. And of course, the physical car engineering (doors, lift motors, cables) are identical no matter what dispatch method is used (and this constitutes the vast majority of the install cost of an elevator system).

If any single car goes offline, it doesn't take down the other cars. This is 95% a software dispatch solution, and the software can plan/optimize usage when one or more cars are unavailable. Indeed, taking a car offline is an expected use case, since periodic maintenance is expected for cars.

Edited January 26 by tscoffey

[S.A.M.J.R.]

12 hours ago, SUgwoz said:

May not be terrified of change. However, there does seem to be a trend of negative statements or bringing up exploits. While those that have actually used the system in other ships and buildings have mostly positive remarks and refuting the negative statements. 

Yes, some of us are curious and want to know (at least understand) how things work. 

 

And some of us have been "burned" in the past by people who "supposedly know" not thinking about "situation 'x'".  

 

And at least some of the descriptions in the thread have been contradictory "you get on the elevator and it's a direct trip to your floor" is different than "it will stop at other floors before you".  Giving out wrong information only leads to more confusion.  Words matter.

 

 

12 hours ago, SUgwoz said:

 

I would be a lot more concerned if the people that actually used the elevator system was negative. 

I agree.  But there's been a lot of talk about usage of this system in office buildings and hotels.  But, as was brought up during the room cleaning cutbacks, "you can't compare the two, they're too different".  

 

Will I ever go on Icon?  Don't know.  Would the type of elevator control system determine whether I decide to sail on a ship?  Nope.  

 

I know it's used now.  I'd still like to see how well it works after a show.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

17 minutes ago, tscoffey said:

I can't speak to the price, but one could argue that since the cars have no interior destination buttons, the cost is lower per car. And of course, the physical car engineering (doors, lift motors, cables) are identical no matter what dispatch method is used (and this constitutes the vast majority of the install cost of an elevator system).

 

But presumably you have added cost in the control system.  Do the people who fix the control system need to be paid more than the folks who fixed a "normal" elevator system?  

[2wheelin]

15 hours ago, bg2310 said:

 

Never said how you experienced it was imaginary. I simply corrected you and provided an explanation as to why it's not a "rumor" as accurate input would be needed. Maybe not be so defensive?

 

Just because the way we've used something in the past and it's worked doesn't necessarily mean it's the correct way. 

 

Also, just because something has worked the way you've done it doesn't mean you understand it entirely or how it works.

 

It goes back to what I said originally - how is a system supposed to know how many people are getting on an elevator without the relevant input?

 

It doesn't. You must provide that input. As someone who works with computers and systems for a living, they don't just "work" like magic. It might seem that way, but underneath it there are variables and parameters that have to be provided.

 

Am I saying it doesn't work unless you do it the "correct" way? Nope.

 

Thank you. You worded it so much better than I would have. I also suggest anyone in a scooter or with a stroller make extra “requests” so more space will be allotted. Although I usually defer to a scooter, it is a negative experience when my assigned elevator arrives and a scooter takes up all the space.

 

1 hour ago, gavvy said:

My office has had this system for 5 years or so, it makes it more efficient and saves power by only dispatching an elevator to the floor that needs it.  You will still stop at other floors on the way to your destination like before, it just makes it more efficient.

 

One good thing is you know what door the elevator will arrive at in advance, so stops people rocking up and jumping in before you have the chance as you are the wrong side of the bank of doors.  However if there are too many of you waiting and you cant get in then you will have to go back and call another like before.  You are not guaranteed an empty elevator and there could be more waiting to get in than it has capacity for.

If people used the system correctly and requested space for each person in their party, there would be space. Unless there is a scooter in which case there should be instructions to make more than one request.

 

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Seems like a solution in search of a problem.  

From someone who has used them on board I will say that they are most definitely better and a lot quicker.

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

1 hour ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I'd still like to see how well it works after a show.

It worked very well and it was much better on disembarkation than the other elevators

[ckruetze]

2 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

- Something no one's really mentioned:  this more complex system is going to come with a higher price tag.  I'm not thrilled with my cruise ticket going up to "solve" a non-existent problem.

Actually not necessary. You needed big displays or lots of buttons in each car (that can break). Now the cars don't need that. Only the floors. If floor 10 has broken buttons you can still reach all floors and depart from all floors except 10. But if the buttons in elevator B are broken you can't use that elevator at all.
Also you save power and time. If you go from floor 1 to 17 the system might allow someone else to board on 3 or maybe 16 but it should not stop on 3, 7 and 10 on the way. making it quicker for the users (and those quicker available for others) and it opens the mechanical doors less. I'm guessing on a ship it is the same as on land. If you have enough floors and enough elevators the smart ones could work out cheaper overall.

[Ourusualbeach]

2 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I'm not thrilled with my cruise ticket going up to "solve" a non-existent problem. 

You may have been lucky but I have had all kinds of issues on other ships and all I can say from actually experiencing both is that this is far superior.

 

Also the amount of extra money they paid for this new system on a $2B ship is inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.  The prices would have been this high regardless as it is being priced at what the market will bear and has no correlation to what they paid to build the ship.  If they spent half as much to build the ship and they could still charge the rates that they are they would do so.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

16 hours ago, schooner_Drinker said:

as., my 1st hand experience and use of this product doesn’t seem to be relevant 

 

To be fair, you're negating my 1st had experience and use of this product where I *have* seen it where too many people were assigned to an elevator due to large parties and/or people seeing the person in front of them press for the same floor and just creepily tag along.

[S.A.M.J.R.]

40 minutes ago, ckruetze said:

Actually not necessary. You needed big displays or lots of buttons in each car (that can break). Now the cars don't need that. Only the floors. If floor 10 has broken buttons you can still reach all floors and depart from all floors except 10. But if the buttons in elevator B are broken you can't use that elevator at all.

 

Also you save power and time. If you go from floor 1 to 17 the system might allow someone else to board on 3 or maybe 16 but it should not stop on 3, 7 and 10 on the way. making it quicker for the users (and those quicker available for others) and it opens the mechanical doors less. I'm guessing on a ship it is the same as on land. If you have enough floors and enough elevators the smart ones could work out cheaper overall.

I tried to break up the quote, but it wouldn't let me.  Anyway, I would think the folks on floor 10 would have a problem losing 25% of their elevators (assuming four lobbies) if a panel is broken.  IMO, the odds of enough buttons in a single elevator being broken to make the elevator unusable are very slim.

 

As far as the 2nd paragraph, let's say there are two people on floor 1, two on floor 3, and three on floor 7, all going to floor 17... according to you, the it would pick up four people, but leave the three on floor 7 for another elevator?

 

And do I understand correctly, if you have more than one in your party, each person would need to select their desired floor?  So person 1 says "Floor 7", wait to see they're assigned to elevator F, person 2 says "Floor 7", wait to see they're assigned to elevator F, person 3 says "Floor 7", wait, etc.  

[tscoffey]

10 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

As far as the 2nd paragraph, let's say there are two people on floor 1, two on floor 3, and three on floor 7, all going to floor 17... according to you, the it would pick up four people, but leave the three on floor 7 for another elevator?

It's a dynamic, adaptive system. It may very well do as you stated, or it may also stop at floor 7. It depends on other factors at the time.

[RedIguana]

Ok, let me know if I've figured this out. If you press your floor 10-12 times you get a private elevator so no one will abscond with your wine bottle?

[little britain]

I thought I had read it all in CC; but 5 pages about how to get in a lift ( elevator 🛗)….  🤦‍♀️🤷‍♀️!!!

 

Have used them on MSC. 
Press button.

Go to allocated elevator. 
Go to desired deck. 
The End. 

[toddcruise01]

22 hours ago, crzndeb said:

Here’s a short

I've seen it but nobody has come up with the button on the bottom of the pad that shows chair, do I push that if I'm in one...anybody???  Maybe it just keeps the door open longer for you.....

Edited January 26 by toddcruise01

[Ourusualbeach]

3 hours ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

I tried to break up the quote, but it wouldn't let me.  Anyway, I would think the folks on floor 10 would have a problem losing 25% of their elevators (assuming four lobbies) if a panel is broken.  IMO, the odds of enough buttons in a single elevator being broken to make the elevator unusable are very slim.

 

As far as the 2nd paragraph, let's say there are two people on floor 1, two on floor 3, and three on floor 7, all going to floor 17... according to you, the it would pick up four people, but leave the three on floor 7 for another elevator?

 

And do I understand correctly, if you have more than one in your party, each person would need to select their desired floor?  So person 1 says "Floor 7", wait to see they're assigned to elevator F, person 2 says "Floor 7", wait to see they're assigned to elevator F, person 3 says "Floor 7", wait, etc.  

I was on floor 11...no issues. 

[time4u2go]

I can see a couple of minor issues with this:

 

1. On embarkation day, there will be people that are not familiar with such a system.  They will probably just hop on an elevator and get confused as to why there are no floor buttons.  This really wouldn't affect the people for whom the elevator was serving, other than potentially filling up the elevator with people.

 

2. Sometimes people change their mind about where they want to go after they have gotten on the elevator.  They will have to just ride to whatever floor they had originally selected, then get off and summon another elevator to go to the floor they (now) want.

 

Both are minor issues, but they are considerations.

[Pellaz]

On 1/25/2024 at 3:44 PM, gallagher123123 said:

TBH, I'm surprised how long it took Royal to add Destination Dispatch Elevator technology to their ships. Carnival started with the Vista class in 2016.

They started it on Vista, but then dropped it and went back to normal elevator operations a few weeks later. 

We were onboard during that brief period when Destination Dispatch was used, and we liked it.  But, as others have observed, there are capacity issues during busy periods (like embark) and because large parties only pressed their floor's button once.  In fairness, I don't recall any instructions on the Vista saying to press it once per person.  

We have been on Horizon recently twice, and liked DD there also.  On embark day they operate the elevators in manual mode, with a crew member in each car manually pressing floor buttons using the button pad behind the locked panel on the left side.  After embark the system was returned to DD operation.  

 

On 1/25/2024 at 3:44 PM, gallagher123123 said:

Something interesting, I believe this might be the first KONE Destination Dispatch system on a cruise ship. Carnival and MSC use a Schindler system.

 

And now I'm curious as to how the two systems' dispatch algorithms differ, and how they're similar.  🙂