Meal quality advice - MDR and buffet

[donaldbihl]

We need some serious discussion about food. Our last two cruises were NCL Prima and Gem. The same food and exact menu on both. MDR was 2* at best. The specialty restaurants we tried were great, 5*. Another cruise last spring on Princess was even worse.. Why has the quality gone down so badly, and on what lines can you find good quality meals without paying for specialty services? We really can’t afford lines like Viking and Virgin. This is ruining our daily enjoyment, especially on sea days.

[Aquahound]

Unfortunately, main dining room food quality is not a priority on the mainstream lines.  But of them, I'd rate Celebrity and Holland America best.  Very subjective and just my opinion, of course.  

[clo]

1 hour ago, donaldbihl said:

This is ruining our daily enjoyment, especially on sea days.

Do you think you'd be happier with a different form of holiday?

[crystalspin]

3 hours ago, donaldbihl said:

on what lines can you find good quality meals without paying for specialty services?

We cruised HAL 16 days back-to-back starting 29 Dec 2022. We ate in Lido (buffet) except for a few nights in specialty restaurants courtesy of complimentary promos. All food was good (except for the air-cakes in Lido, but they never were any good), a few things in both scenario's were excellent. 

 

We would have been back on the same ship right now, but had to cancel. However, we have three more bookings with HAL.

[Flatbush Flyer]

4 hours ago, donaldbihl said:

 

We need some serious discussion about food. Our last two cruises were NCL Prima and Gem. The same food and exact menu on both. MDR was 2* at best. The specialty restaurants we tried were great, 5*. Another cruise last spring on Princess was even worse.. Why has the quality gone down so badly, and on what lines can you find good quality meals without paying for specialty services? We really can’t afford lines like Viking and Virgin. This is ruining our daily enjoyment, especially on sea days.

If any one line lost out in the formation of the NCL Holding consortium, it was Norwegian. Cost cutting will certainly fall upon NCL before it touches Regent or especially Oceania whose former execs make up the bulk of NCLH leadership.

 

O is our preferred cruise line, in part because the quality of ingredients and preparation is similar across all dining venues and specialty restaurants (never a charge) are differentiated only by focused menus and accompanying ambiance of the space.

 

BTW, if you look at the daily net cost of a mostly inclusive premium line like Oceania and compare it to NCL once you’ve added all the extra costs ( like airfare, beverages, internet, etc)., you will be pleasantly surprised at the value.

[CDNPolar]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

BTW, if you look at the daily net cost of a mostly inclusive premium line like Oceania and compare it to NCL once you’ve added all the extra costs ( like airfare, beverages, internet, etc)., you will be pleasantly surprised at the value.

 

Comparing cruise line pricing is a tricky thing because it is rarely apples to apples.

 

We cruise Viking almost exclusively and I know you said that you don't feel you can afford Viking, but have you every compared your "Per Night" cost once your cruise is done on your current lines and then looked at the Viking "Per Night" cost?

 

We have done that and it is surprising how close Viking can be to a larger cruise line with all that they include.

 

Just a thought...

Oh, and from our perspective, Viking's food is extremely good.

[John Bull]

I believe the rise of premium-pay restaurants, and the great god headline cruise fares, are the causes - with NCL leading the way.

 

When premium-pay venues started appearing a couple of decades ago, cynical JB though the standard of food in the fare-inclusive MDRs would fall - not just to cut costs, but to entice cruisers to use premium-pay restaurants (kerr-ching).

JB was wrong for quite a while - on cruises he sailed (various cruise lines) he didn't feel that standards in the MDRs had  fallen dramatically and premium-pay restaurants were under-booked - a once-in-a-cruise experience for a birthday, anniversary etc.

But now there are multiple premium-pay venues on mid-to-large ships, and folk no longer feel the need to use premium-pay just for special occasions, some dine there cruise-long.

 

We've not noticed a huge reduction in the standards of MDRs in recent years, but we've not sailed NCL for many many years and their MDRs do seem to attract more negative comments than other cruise lines.

So mebbe JB was right, but the changes are slower than he anticipated.

 

JB 🙂  

[donaldbihl]

We are trying a train/bus tour next Oct of Paris and NW France. 

We compared a Viking to NCL transatlantic for Feb 2025. It was triple the cost. Since we don’t drink, and there are fewer excursions on a crossing, it didn’t make sense. We could add a big dining package easily for the difference, if we were indeed able to afford the Viking price. 

 

I’m not expecting 5* in the MDR and buffets, just something better than Fazoli’s and iHop. Something closer to Bob Evan’s and Longhorn Steakhouse would be fine.

Edited March 1 by donaldbihl

[Hlitner]

Many posters like to say that food is a subjective issue, but the reality is that bad is bad!  Many cruisers choose to cruise on the so-called mass market lines (such as NCL) because of the cost, onboard amenities, and price.  The cost of food has increased (in a big way), NCL (and some other lines) are encumbered with huge debt-service obligations (partially as a result of the Covid shutdown) and increased labor cost.  Many cruise lines have reacted by implementing various cut-backs, intended to reduce their cost, to help increase their ability to pay down debt.  These cut-backs are certainly felt in the included eating venues and even some of the extra cost venues.

 

So what can the OP do?  I do think the answer is often the traditional "you get what you pay for."  There is still excellent food on the so-called Premium and Luxury cruise lines.  One can go on lines like Oceania, Explora Journeys, Seabourn, Regent, etc. where they will find the overall cuisine to be far better to what they get on NCL (or other mass market lines).  Just consider on Seabourn one can order caviar (even a double portion) whenever they please.  On Explora Journeys, one can go to their Lido and usually find lobster (they had 2 kinds), crab legs, fresh shucked oysters, etc.  On Oceania one can go to their cafe and order a lobster & filet sandwich at no additional cost.  

 

The bad news for the OP is that if they continue to cruise on mass market lines they are likely to get so-so food.  In some cases they can have it both ways (mass market ships and good food) by simply dining in the various alternative restaurants....for an additional cost.

 

Hank

[teeeej]

13 hours ago, Aquahound said:

Unfortunately, main dining room food quality is not a priority on the mainstream lines.  But of them, I'd rate Celebrity and Holland America best.  Very subjective and just my opinion, of course.  

 

My dad has been on the "expensive" lines, Seabourn, Regent etc, but when we cruised Carnival last fall, he mentioned he was surprised by how good the quality of food was in the dining room, though he was disappointed by the steakhouse that cost extra.

[CruiserBruce]

Food quality IS subjective. I read a lot of these threads...I frequently come to the conclusion there are a lot of unemployed Michelin starred chefs hanging around Cruise Critic. I mean, not even my wife and I always agree on what is good or not in a restaurant...on line or at sea!

[cruisemom42]

Food taste CAN be subjective, but there are also objective elements, such as how much the specific cruise line spends on food per passenger. It's been shown a number of times that lines like NCL and Costa spend far less per passenger than lines that tend to get better "food" reviews. 

 

In other words, there is the cost of food, and then there's how you prepare it.

 

I mean, sure, I've eaten at a delightful restaurant in Lyon that can make even tripe taste good -- but when I go on a cruise I hope to be able to be able to choose from higher-quality (and higher cost) proteins. I don't care how good HAL's "rustic lasagna" or "meatloaf" dinner choices might be, that's not what I want to eat on vacation.

 

Mass market lines that seem to receive the fewest complaints about food quality are Celebrity and Holland America. But all lines have their ups and downs. For example, 2023 was not a great year for Celebrity, which cut way back on their offerings both in the MDR and buffet for a while. After incessant passenger complaints, they have walked many of those changes back. HAL (Holland America) on the other hand has been steadily improving their offerings. In 2023, they added more fresh fish (local) to their menus and recent cruises have noted that they are also including a "crew dish of the day" every evening -- often Indonesian (and tasty).

 

IMHO, the best thing to do is to be flexible as to which lines you sail if food is a priority. Do your research. Read recent reviews. Keep in mind that food can vary as much from ship to ship within a line as from line to line.

 

And don't expect miracles out of the chefs on lines like NCL which don't spend a lot on food to start with.

 

[MBP&O2/O]

I am sure I read somewhere about a 'mass market' line that charged for a speciality restaurant and then charged extra if you wanted lobster, or similar 'expensive food' from that menu?

[crystalspin]

1 hour ago, MBP&O2/O said:

I am sure I read somewhere about a 'mass market' line that charged for a speciality restaurant and then charged extra if you wanted lobster, or similar 'expensive food' from that menu?

HAL does that and has put some upcharge items on the MDR menu even. I'm good with that.

[MacMadame]

6 minutes ago, crystalspin said:

HAL does that and has put some upcharge items on the MDR menu even. I'm good with that.

Princess does it too.

[wcook]

From the second day of cruise ships people have been complaining that the quality is going down. Either this is not an accurate representation of food quality, or we are all eating complete garbage. 

[happy cruzer]

Maybe it's your expectations.  If you expect exactly what you had in the past, you probably will be disappointed.  Looking at restaurants in our area, the offerings are not what they used to be and the cost is up.  Same on cruise lines.  So yea, we pay more and get less.

 

We have found that if we avoid beef, we can get a fair meal most places.  Plus the majority of younger diners do not want the "old" traditional dining experience anywhere - land or sea.  We find that it is hard to even find the traditional dining and if you do it really costs because it is so rare.

 

If you can adapt to the change by setting your expectations, then you can still enjoy. 

[happy cruzer]

On 3/1/2024 at 11:04 AM, cruisemom42 said:

Food taste CAN be subjective, but there are also objective elements, such as how much the specific cruise line spends on food per passenger. It's been shown a number of times that lines like NCL and Costa spend far less per passenger than lines that tend to get better "food" reviews. 

 

In other words, there is the cost of food, and then there's how you prepare it.

 

I mean, sure, I've eaten at a delightful restaurant in Lyon that can make even tripe taste good -- but when I go on a cruise I hope to be able to be able to choose from higher-quality (and higher cost) proteins. I don't care how good HAL's "rustic lasagna" or "meatloaf" dinner choices might be, that's not what I want to eat on vacation.

 

Mass market lines that seem to receive the fewest complaints about food quality are Celebrity and Holland America. But all lines have their ups and downs. For example, 2023 was not a great year for Celebrity, which cut way back on their offerings both in the MDR and buffet for a while. After incessant passenger complaints, they have walked many of those changes back. HAL (Holland America) on the other hand has been steadily improving their offerings. In 2023, they added more fresh fish (local) to their menus and recent cruises have noted that they are also including a "crew dish of the day" every evening -- often Indonesian (and tasty).

 

IMHO, the best thing to do is to be flexible as to which lines you sail if food is a priority. Do your research. Read recent reviews. Keep in mind that food can vary as much from ship to ship within a line as from line to line.

 

And don't expect miracles out of the chefs on lines like NCL which don't spend a lot on food to start with.

 

You say the Indonesian dish was tasty yet you don't rate HAL's lasagna or meatloaf?  Food is indeed subjective; many would go just the opposite. 🙂

 

Agree the higher cost proteins are what people mean about quality declining.  Sometimes its the labor intensive items like baked goods.  It's all subjective.

 

Like you recommended research and proper expectations are important.

[George C]

On 2/29/2024 at 8:55 PM, donaldbihl said:

 

We need some serious discussion about food. Our last two cruises were NCL Prima and Gem. The same food and exact menu on both. MDR was 2* at best. The specialty restaurants we tried were great, 5*. Another cruise last spring on Princess was even worse.. Why has the quality gone down so badly, and on what lines can you find good quality meals without paying for specialty services? We really can’t afford lines like Viking and Virgin. This is ruining our daily enjoyment, especially on sea days.

I agree with your opinion on MDR , we are lucky enough to book suites so we eat in suite restaurant which is a little better than MDR or specialty restaurants. 

[Aquahound]

2 hours ago, George C said:

I agree with your opinion on MDR , we are lucky enough to book suites so we eat in suite restaurant which is a little better than MDR or specialty restaurants. 

 

That is a good point as well. 

 

Not sure how other lines treat their mini suites but on RCI, junior suites are granted access to the suites restaurant based on availability.  I have been very happy with my meals in Coastal Kitchen.  

[9tee2Sea]

personally, I thought Princess had a really nice buffet.  NCL used to have much more variety.  They seemed to have scaled back quite a bit.  Only been on Princess, Carnival, MSC, and mostly NCL

[CDNPolar]

I feel that the larger the ship the more room for a lower quality of final food product. 

 

These larger ships are manufacturing plants for tens of thousands of meals daily.

 

I personally believe that this is an advantage of the smaller ships - smaller galleys and more attention to detail.

[Hlitner]

6 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

I feel that the larger the ship the more room for a lower quality of final food product. 

 

These larger ships are manufacturing plants for tens of thousands of meals daily.

 

I personally believe that this is an advantage of the smaller ships - smaller galleys and more attention to detail.

We agree!  Over the years we have repeatably posted that none of the so-called luxury, or even Premium, lines use mega ships.  In fact, nearly all the luxury lines use small ships (generally no more then 900 passengers and often a lot smaller).  Small luxury ships are about very good space ratios, all suites, very good to excellent cuisine, and high quality service.  The down side (for some) is that the small ships do not have water parks, bumper cars, ice skating rinks, etc.  

 

We enjoy cruising on both small luxury ships and large (not the mega ships) vessels such as those of Princess, MSC, etc.  There is certainly a place, and a customer base, for many types of ships.  There is a huge difference between dining in a tiny venue on Explora 1, where your dinner may be cooked by a celebrity Michelin starred chef vs a huge MDR on a mega ship.  On some luxury ships you will find items like lobster, caviar, and prime beef, fresh oysters on the half-shell, etc. available on a daily basis.  

 

There is an interesting facet to the industry and its customers.  There are folks who will actually pay more money for a suite on a mass-market vessel (with so-so food) then it would cost them to cruise on a luxury line such as Seabourn, Silversea, Explora Journey, etc.  We routinely cruise on Seabourn (a true luxury line) for less money than it would normally cost to book the smallest "retreat eligible" suites on Celebrity.   That being said, not everyone would be happy on small ships where there are no pool games, no photographers, no art auctions, no water slides, etc.

 

Hank

[CDNPolar]

16 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

We agree!  Over the years we have repeatably posted that none of the so-called luxury, or even Premium, lines use mega ships.  In fact, nearly all the luxury lines use small ships (generally no more then 900 passengers and often a lot smaller).  Small luxury ships are about very good space ratios, all suites, very good to excellent cuisine, and high quality service.  The down side (for some) is that the small ships do not have water parks, bumper cars, ice skating rinks, etc.  

 

We enjoy cruising on both small luxury ships and large (not the mega ships) vessels such as those of Princess, MSC, etc.  There is certainly a place, and a customer base, for many types of ships.  There is a huge difference between dining in a tiny venue on Explora 1, where your dinner may be cooked by a celebrity Michelin starred chef vs a huge MDR on a mega ship.  On some luxury ships you will find items like lobster, caviar, and prime beef, fresh oysters on the half-shell, etc. available on a daily basis.  

 

There is an interesting facet to the industry and its customers.  There are folks who will actually pay more money for a suite on a mass-market vessel (with so-so food) then it would cost them to cruise on a luxury line such as Seabourn, Silversea, Explora Journey, etc.  We routinely cruise on Seabourn (a true luxury line) for less money than it would normally cost to book the smallest "retreat eligible" suites on Celebrity.   That being said, not everyone would be happy on small ships where there are no pool games, no photographers, no art auctions, no water slides, etc.

 

Hank

 

Agree with everything you say.