Container Ship Struck Key Bridge in Baltimore, Bridge has Collapsed

[mo&fran]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Just remember that until the last few moments, the ship was in the shipping channel.  Also, like most cruisers, and one poster on this thread, I believe, perspective is deceiving, as it looks like the ships are almost touching the bridges as they go under, so how well a person could determine that a ship was too close to the bridge abutment is up in the air.

Is it possible there was a wind that could have pushed it out of the channel?

[Pratique]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Just remember that until the last few moments, the ship was in the shipping channel.  Also, like most cruisers, and one poster on this thread, I believe, perspective is deceiving, as it looks like the ships are almost touching the bridges as they go under, so how well a person could determine that a ship was too close to the bridge abutment is up in the air.

It seems like the event unfolded very quickly, in just a matter of minutes. If not for the pilot radioing the warning and the quick relay of the warning to the police (and their quick reactions), I think that almost no one would have seen this coming. Especially in the darkness of night. When I am standing or driving on a bridge, I have no sense of what is below the bridge.

[broberts]

23 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

 

If they were engrossed in conversation or looking down on their phones catching up on texts/social media, it'd be easy to miss. And perhaps their viewing angle, it was hard to notice that a ship had slowly drifted off course.

 

I don't think you are taking into account the sight line. Sitting in a vehicle 190+ feet above the water, several feet from the edge with an intervening curtain barrier, I suspect a person would see nothing less than several hundred feet from the bridge. With no lighting, a ship would be all but invisible.

 

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, mo&fran said:

Is it possible there was a wind that could have pushed it out of the channel?

Of course, without propulsion, the ship will react to wind, but I don't know what the weather was at that time.  I think that dropping the port anchor caused the ship to veer to starboard, and into the abutment.  But, even without the final veer into the support pillar, I think the ship would have been too high for the bridge structure at that point, so instead of hitting the support, it would have struck the bridge truss structure, but given the type of bridge it was, this would have had the same effect.

[HBE4]

7 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

I don't think you are taking into account the sight line.

 

 

I did. I wrote "And perhaps their viewing angle, it was hard to notice that a ship had slowly drifted off course."

 

Maybe you meant to quote someone else?

[RFerrington]

3 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

  I think that dropping the port anchor caused the ship to veer to starboard

That’s very interesting.  I would have thought that dragging anchor on the port side would have caused the bow to veer to the port and perhaps the stern to drift starboard….but I know little of such things.

[Charles4515]

32 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

How does he know that there isn't an incident commander?  What is his clearance to know this information?  I sure don't know whether there is or not, but given past experiences, I know there will be one

I would be pretty surprised if there wasn’t what I will call a watch person with a radio on the bridge with the work crew or as a member of the crew. They would be watching the traffic, not the ship channel. Given the timeline it seems like it would have been pretty difficult to get the work crew off in time.  

Edited March 28 by Charles4515

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, MrCruze said:

Very interesting video about the salvage of the bridge.  Sounds like there will be third companies involved in the salvage and the companies have already been picked.

 

This guy's VLOG is losing credibility by the minute, some of the things he says just make ZERO sense and are in complete contradiction to what other (better known) outlets are reporting.

[KmomChicago]

2 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

I'm a bit surprised RC hasn't announced anything, but it is a lot easier for Carnival to switch to Norfolk since that's their port and it's on the way to Baltimore.

My guess is RC is working to announce at the same time both what to do with the current cruise and what to do about the next two.

Yes they have a few more days for the current cruise and then just the wrap up before the dry dock gives them a reprieve.

[LB_NJ]

I read somewhere that the official cruise parking lot for Norfolk holds 1200 cars.  Would this be an issue if Vision were also to dock there?

[Jimbo]

34 minutes ago, westerdam said:

I do hope RCI gets off of the proverbial pot soon about all this.  I am supposed to be going on the next cruise and in theory should already be onboard by this time next week. If I have to cancel, reschedule flights or book a bus to get me to wherever ship is going to be docking the sooner the better. Not just for me but everyone.  By now I would have thought there would have been at least a minor update. 

No word might mean,get ready for a bus ride first before your cruise.

[mo&fran]

15 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

This guy's VLOG is losing credibility by the minute, some of the things he says just make ZERO sense and are in complete contradiction to what other (better known) outlets are reporting.

We are so lucky to have cheng here.

[Another_Critic]

29 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I would be pretty surprised if there wasn’t what I will call a watch person with a radio on the bridge with the work crew or as a member of the crew. They would be watching the traffic, not the ship channel. Given the timeline it seems like it would have been pretty difficult to get the work crew off in time.  

FYI - What you quoted (salvage command) is not related to your reply (construction crew).

[Jimbo]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

How does he know that there isn't an incident commander?  What is his clearance to know this information?  I sure don't know whether there is or not, but given past experiences, I know there will be one.  His comments about "dragging" the bridge out of the channel is just rubbish.  That is a certain way to leave potentially damaging debris behind.  Likewise his comments about "blowing up" the bridge.  He's showing his unfamiliarity with modern salvage operations, where the bridge will not be "blown up", but will be cut up by divers using thermite charges which will work like cutting torches, but with the safety of the divers not being there working the torches.  Also, anything dealing with the bridge repair outside the channel (i.e. the area of the main span of the bridge) will be as he correctly notes is the jurisdiction of MDOT, but it is by far a secondary concern, and not in the slightest a concern with regards to opening the channel.

I pretty much believe that guy on YouTube should keep his day job and leave the clean up job to someone with  more experience in that line of work.

Edited March 28 by Jimbo

[BND]

17 minutes ago, LB_NJ said:

I read somewhere that the official cruise parking lot for Norfolk holds 1200 cars.  Would this be an issue if Vision were also to dock there?

Yes.  Legend has more passengers than Vision. I'm also pretty sure there are more than 1200 spots at Baltimore and the lots are routinely full or close to it.

[mo&fran]

Ship simulator recreates moments leading up to bridge crash in U.S. | Watch (msn.com)

[mo&fran]

I wonder if they should have  a bank of batteries , so if the generator goes off line, they would provide power to keep the engine control and steering alive till the generator restarts?

[Jimbo]

I think all of us should invest in tug boats, you just know the new protocol for leaving on going into the Baltimore  Harbor past all  their bridges will now include at the least 2 tug boats, one on each side of the large ships.

Edited March 28 by Jimbo

[OnTheJourney]

1 hour ago, RFerrington said:

That’s very interesting.  I would have thought that dragging anchor on the port side would have caused the bow to veer to the port and perhaps the stern to drift starboard….but I know little of such things.

You beat me to it! I had the exact same thought. Anyway, here are a few pics from '16. Always loved going under it. DW used to say, "how many times are you gonna take pictures of it?!"  Guess not anymore...

 

 

Edited March 28 by OnTheJourney

[Engineroom Snipe]

2 minutes ago, OnTheJourney said:

You beat me to it! I had the exact same thought. Anyway, here are few pics from '16.

I absolutely agree with what you said but maybe winds and current were more forceful than a dragging anchor.

 

The anchor was dragging and did not "catch" to create enough force to overcome momentum, wind, and current.

[HBE4]

46 minutes ago, mo&fran said:

We are so lucky to have cheng here.

 

Agreed. Very knowledge, first hand knowledge, without being a know-it-all, Doesn't BS if he's unsure of all the facts.

 

The VLOG guys has a lot of industry knowledge as well - certainly more than me - but seems to stretch it out a bit. He acts as if he's onsite & has examined all the damage, the ship, etc already,

[chengkp75]

38 minutes ago, mo&fran said:

Ship simulator recreates moments leading up to bridge crash in U.S. | Watch (msn.com)

I will tend to disagree with the instructor, that in my opinion the best Captains I've sailed with will trust their Chief to be doing all possible, and passing required information to the bridge, and would not want to "get into the weeds" by getting on the phone to the engine room, but let the watch officer relay information, while the Captain retains the "big picture".

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, mo&fran said:

I wonder if they should have  a bank of batteries , so if the generator goes off line, they would provide power to keep the engine control and steering alive till the generator restarts?

Hope this doesn't come across the wrong way, but let me ask you if you would pay for a bank of batteries and electric motors in your car, just in case the engine fails while you are on the highway?  For the most part, the ship has several layers of redundancy:  two generators on line while maneuvering (even though one could support the full load), another generator on standby to start immediately and come online in typically less than a minute, and finally an emergency generator that will start and come on line in less than 45 seconds.  But, again, even with steering, a ship without propulsion is just a brick with a rudder.  Think of steering your car using the back wheels, and how you would need to anticipate turning to keep the front end from clocking something.  And, even if you restore electrical power, the main engine will have shut down on various safety interlocks, and requires multiple auxiliary systems that will need to be restarted and the interlocks reset.  Unlike your car, the cooling water, lubricating oil, and fuel systems rely on external pumps driven by electric motors.

[xtremegk]

2 hours ago, MrCruze said:

From his description: In this episode - maritime historian at Campbell University (@campbelledu) and former merchant mariner - discusses the three salvage operations that have to be attempted and the lack of an incident commander to oversee the situation.

 

I just hadn't heard about the three companies that will be doing the salvage.  Seems like a far more trust-worthy source as compared to people like me.  🙂

 

Lack of incident command? It's been more than 24 hours since the ACOE announced they were in the incident command role.

[westerdam]

1 hour ago, Jimbo said:

No word might mean,get ready for a bus ride first before your cruise.

That is more than fine.  I just want to get it all settled ASAP.  I guess time will tell though. It would not be so bad if I was not flying in from the west coast. 😂🤦