Celebrity Error - Build a "Class System" into Your Ships

[retiredtraveler70]

Hello, my wife and I just returned from a cruise on Beyond, a Celebrity Ship. We are very frequent cruisers and we spend most of our time on Celebrity. But after this trip on Beyond, I am rethinking that decision. The ship itself is beautiful - the service was fine, dining was Celebrity average, and our stateroom was perfect. But they've been making some changes on board, slowly but surely, and on this trip we had the feeling that it's time to revolt. A new "class system" has been imposed on the ship.

 

One of the beauties of travel via cruise ship, at least on Celebrity in the past, has been that everyone is treated equal and the courtesies and services apply equally to all. Of course, there are class distinctions between those who buy Concierge or Aqua Class and Suites and so on. Those we are used to, and whether someone gets a tray of little appetizers before dinner or not has never affected us. Those were understandable distinctions between the price of the rooms.

 

But now, these Edge class ships have relegated the entire top/forward portion of the ship to suite passengers. OK -- I can even get used to that, although I certainly miss the wonderful viewing and cocktail lounge up there on the older ships (the Club doesn't cut it). This trip, we found that attending the theater at night was made difficult because they had security guys and roped off areas of the theater reserved for "high priority people." Now, I'm about as high up as you can get in their incentive program (one notch from top) so I was really surprised to find out that we are NOT high priority passengers. No sir, we had to sit off to the side or in the less-preferable seating no matter how early we showed up. They have these reserved, DESPITE the warning you are given audibly when they announce to the crowd "The saving of seats is prohibited." Well, clearly they don't take their own advice on this any longer.

 

I am not a grumbler. I accepted the Suites section that replaced my favorite lounge and I've accepted all the different cabin options that provide goodies like private dining or appetizers. But my family will not accept nor feel comfortable when a cruise line blocks entrance to their entertainment and suggests that there is some amorphous class of passenger who deserves my seat. I asked them each evening how these passengers were selected and the security guys could not or would not answer.

 

Is this the beginning of a slippery slope? Will there be more ropes and seat blocking for these highly valued customers? Perhaps in Oceanview Buffet for the next round of changes? I thought that ALL guests on Celebrity were valued, in the same way and for the same reasons. We are loyal -- we are consistent providers of revenue to the corporation. When a company starts thinking that it is so unique it can separate people into groups like this . . . that's when they lose their core.

Edited Friday at 10:06 PM by davejensen70

[Georgia_Peaches]

I believe the area of which you speak has been designated for those who purchase the Premium Access pass which, among other things, includes reserved seating in the theater. Those who purchase the pass also get premium wifi, early embarkation, and other things I can’t remember. I view it no differently than those who get canapés delivered to the room in concierge or yoga mats in Aqua or priority everything in suites. It’s a privilege that comes with a price, just like the other things you mentioned. Not sure I’d call it a class system. It’s just another way to chase a dollar. 
 

We had a “free” casino cruise on Equinox last year. It was a run of the mill veranda stateroom. Aside from Elite status we had No perks, no special restaurant, no priority of anything and I went in with a certain level of dread thinking I would miss all the extras we had paid for in the past. I was completely wrong. Celebrity did a great job making us feel as special as we always had in the past. Made me realize what a great marketing campaign Celebrity had done in convincing me that I  needed all those extras in order to have a great cruise. Bottom line, I can understand how that roped off area may have been off putting but realizing that people who sat there actually paid more to do so hopefully makes it an easier pill to swallow. 😊

[retiredtraveler70]

Hey Peache, thanks for the reply. I agree with you that there are ways -- numerous of them -- that companies are finding to add on to their bottom line in tough times. But times aren't so tough right now for the cruise industry. Our ship was full. While the ship accommodates 3250, the cruise director said they are sailing with a full "3500 passengers on board." I don't think there was anything unoccupied. They were rolling in cash from this cruise, for sure. Therefore, I can not forgive them for using the excuse of the "premium access pass."

 

The things you mention, about the Suites (or private dining rooms) and the canapés delivered to the room . . .  these do not impact me in any way. Those are things the cruise passengers paid for. That's fine -- let them buy the added items they want or need. But a "premium access package" DOES INFRINGE on the happiness of ALL the other passengers, because it takes something from them and gives it to "special" people. We've always shown up early, enjoyed drinks and waiting time for the show to start, in our seats in the auditorium. Now, with this situation you can not get past the (surly) security people and the ropes. What has happened is that Celebrity TOOK AWAY something from us, and gave it to people who paid for it. I don't care how much they paid because what they actually are doing is cheapening the experience for ALL OTHERS on the ship.   

[Georgia_Peaches]

2 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

What has happened is that Celebrity TOOK AWAY something from us, and gave it to people who paid for it. I don't care how much they paid because what they actually are doing is cheapening the experience for ALL OTHERS on the ship.   

Yes, I see your point. Not sure what the answer is but maybe it’s time to explore other cruising options?  It leaves a sour taste when one no longer feels appreciated for their loyalty. I get it. 

[RichYak]

8 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

Our ship was full. While the ship accommodates 3250, the cruise director said they are sailing with a full "3500 passengers on board." I don't think there was anything unoccupied. They were rolling in cash from this cruise, for sure. Therefore, I can not forgive them for using the excuse of the "premium access pass."

To be fair, those passes are sold for all sailings. Are you suggesting that they should have cancelled purchases of those passes once the occupancy reached a certain level?

[RICCruisers]

Prior to the Premium Access Pass there was always a reserved section for Retreat passengers in the theater on Chic Nights only. Now it happens every night. This goes along with the New Ship Excursions they are selling for activities that were free of charge in the past. Does anyone remember going to the Tuscan Grill on S Class ships to learn how to cook the perfect steak?  How about on an Alaska cruise where they taught you the best way to cook salmon?  Those were all free. Now they are considered Revenue Enhancements for Celebrity. I understand the profit motive and that’s why X is in business. It’s just disappointing to me, not unlike the airlines adding numerous ways to increase revenue above the actual cost of your ticket. 

[cachouonacruise]

The sad thing about Celebrity is that they forgot the Vision they used to have:

 

"In 1989 the Chandris family introduced the first Celebrity Cruise ship—promising cruisers a new kind of vacation that would surpass all others in terms of service, value, sophistication, and exceptional quality..."

..."The Celebrity “X” has always stood for one thing: First in quality. The brand’s understated elegance and superior service set it apart from the rest of the pack. Compared to other main line choices which continue to offer bigger and bolder, Celebrity continues to win loyal guests seeking a more sophisticated, comfortable experience..."

More and more, this Vision is aimed only at people who agree to pay more, than a standard stateroom. Especially on E Class ships. The stated vision seems to be more and more oriented toward Retreat guests, only.

 

For example: 

 

A real balcony on E Class no longer available unless in a suite or in a rare sunset cabin.

 

Front view of the ship, not available to non-retreat guests on E-Class ship unless you go to the gym.

 

As mentioned, free places in the theatre have been significantly reduced...and limited to less desired seating location.

 

Nice spaces on deck have been reduced and limited to people who pay more for the alcove...

 

And the list goes on...

 

Our last experience on Edge was below expectations, in terms of service and food quality. We will not revisit that class of ships.

 

We will try one or two more cruises with Celebrity ( One is booked) but, sadly,  we may have reached the point where it is time for us to consider alternative options for vacation. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited Saturday at 02:50 AM by cachouonacruise

[retiredtraveler70]

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

To be fair, those passes are sold for all sailings. Are you suggesting that they should have cancelled purchases of those passes once the occupancy reached a certain level?

Hi Rich,

 

No, I was suggesting that there is no need for those passes or anything which takes away something from the bulk of the passengers and gives it to others, for a fee.

 

Dave

[retiredtraveler70]

57 minutes ago, cachouonacruise said:

The sad thing about Celebrity is that they forgot the Vision they used to have:

 

"In 1989 the Chandris family introduced the first Celebrity Cruise ship—promising cruisers a new kind of vacation that would surpass all others in terms of service, value, sophistication, and exceptional quality..."

..."The Celebrity “X” has always stood for one thing: First in quality. The brand’s understated elegance and superior service set it apart from the rest of the pack. Compared to other main line choices which continue to offer bigger and bolder, Celebrity continues to win loyal guests seeking a more sophisticated, comfortable experience..."

More and more, this Vision is aimed only at people who agree to pay more, than a standard stateroom. Especially on E Class ships. The stated vision seems to be more and more oriented toward Retreat guests, only.

 

For example: 

 

A real balcony on E Class no longer available unless in a suite or in a rare sunset cabin.

 

Front view of the ship, not available to non-retreat guests on E-Class ship unless you go to the gym.

 

As mentioned, free places in the theatre have been significantly reduced...and limited to less desired seating location.

 

Nice spaces on deck have been reduced and limited to people who pay more for the alcove...

 

And the list goes on...

 

Our last experience on Edge was below expectations, in terms of service and food quality. We will not revisit that class of ships.

 

We will try one or two more cruises with Celebrity ( One is booked) but, sadly,  we may have reached the point where it is time for us to consider alternative options for vacation. 

Thank you Mr or Ms Chou.

 

I guess we should have seen this coming when forward viewing of the ship was taken away and the Retreat was initiated. We absolutely hate the virtual balconies, but we'd still sail with Celebrity if they weren't separating the ship into classes. Anytime that happens, whether it's with a ship or a society, it's a bad thing. Every cruiser should demand the same basic rights to good food, a view of where we're going, a good seat in the theater if you get there early enough and more . . . Even the lower priced trips on a Celebrity ship are expensive. There's no reason to see "plusses" to their bottom line revenue that take AWAY from others, such as the move to rope off and keep the low life out of prime seats in the auditorium. 

 

We find that move repulsive and if we give Celebrity 50% of our cruise business in 2025 that will be too much.

 

57 minutes ago, cachouonacruise said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[notscb]

2 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

But a "premium access package" DOES INFRINGE on the happiness of ALL the other passengers, because it takes something from them and gives it to "special" people.

Question- were there not other seats available in the theater or just less preferable seats to you?

 

Cruise lines have always and will always find ways to incentivize people into buying "extras" so folks feel like they're more special on vacation. This is standard across the entire cruise industry. Based on the benefits listed on this discussion about it, the "perks" included really have zero impact on most folks onboard, so I think it's a stretch to say it's a "slippery slope." FWIW, Royal Caribbean has the "key" program, Carnival has the "Faster to the Fun" program, etc. This type of thing is not unique by any means.

Edited Saturday at 04:14 AM by notscb

[retiredtraveler70]

22 minutes ago, notscb said:

Question- were there not other seats available in the theater or just less preferable seats to you?

 

Cruise lines have always and will always find ways to incentivize people into buying "extras" so folks feel like they're more special on vacation. This is standard across the entire cruise industry. Based on the benefits listed on this discussion about it, the "perks" included really have zero impact on most folks onboard, so I think it's a stretch to say it's a "slippery slope." FWIW, Royal Caribbean has the "key" program, Carnival has the "Faster to the Fun" program, etc. This type of thing is not unique by any means.

That's fine to feel more special, and to pay for things that make you feel this way. I understand people going into the spa, taking certain classes in the gym, and even buying Suites or premium cabins like Aqua Class and so on. Yes, that's ALWAYS been the case. And absolutely none of those things impact others. You are just getting extra stuff, that you've paid for!

 

However, what we're talking about here is a different matter entirely. This is something that Celebrity is taking AWAY from one class of people (the 60-70% that fills regular cabins at regular prices) and providing it to those who will pay to take that from the others. That's right . . . it IS a slippery slope, because apparently (you're an example) there are people who are going along with this and some wise character at RCI is working on a plan right now that ropes off sections of the Oceanview Cafe so that these "preferred" guests don't have to hunt for a table like everyone else.

 

I don't know who you are, but if we were buddies I'd bet you $100 that they'll be doing this within the year. Fairly certain I'd win! The move to dissect the ship into different classes has begun, and the losers are the regular folks in normal cabins. 

[notscb]

2 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

However, what we're talking about here is a different matter entirely. This is something that Celebrity is taking AWAY from one class of people (the 60-70% that fills regular cabins at regular prices) and providing it to those who will pay to take that from the others. That's right . . . it IS a slippery slope, because apparently (you're an example) there are people who are going along with this and some wise character at RCI is working on a plan right now that ropes off sections of the Oceanview Cafe so that these "preferred" guests don't have to hunt for a table like everyone else.

 

I'm confused as to what exactly you feel they are taking away as your post focuses heavily on seats in the theater. Celebrity has already taken away a ton more by having exclusive suite areas onboard. IMO, the "ship within a ship" is the slippery slope to be discussed, not roping off a few rows of seats in the theater.

 

FWIW, I'd win that bet, since my point is that they're already doing this.

Edited Saturday at 04:47 AM by notscb

[Thejuggler]

No issues with the theatre barriers.  Just wait until the show is about to start and as the area will be at least half empty move across and sit there.

 

Lack of a forward facing crows nest type bar for all is a downside of Edge class ships, but that info is available before booking and is one reason why we won't be choosing the class of ship again.

[retiredtraveler70]

3 hours ago, notscb said:

Celebrity has already taken away a ton more by having exclusive suite areas onboard. IMO, the "ship within a ship" is the slippery slope to be discussed, not roping off a few rows of seats in the theater.

 

FWIW, I'd win that bet, since my point is that they're already doing this.

 

You're right, the "ship within a ship" thing stinks, and I mentioned that it was the beginning. However, it wasn't until they took away our theater seating that it all smacked us in the face. I'll take the Juggler's advice if we use Celebrity again and choose an updated older ship over this newer "Edge" class.  

[chemmo]

42 minutes ago, davejensen70 said:

 

You're right, the "ship within a ship" thing stinks, and I mentioned that it was the beginning. However, it wasn't until they took away our theater seating that it all smacked us in the face. I'll take the Juggler's advice if we use Celebrity again and choose an updated older ship over this newer "Edge" class.  

I fully understand your point of view…

 

However, I am one of the guests who always book a suite. We enjoy a bigger room and balcony, speciality restaurants (for both the ambiance and food) and a few other perks too. Ironically I don’t use the suite seating which seems to be your ‘tipping point’. I am happy if I go to a show arriving just before it starts and sitting wherever there is a space without causing anyone to move…

 

In recent months I have followed several posts which suggest with the price of suites on Celebrity that suite guests would be better moving to smaller ‘more exclusive’ lines…I continue to follow these posts but as yet I am unconvinced. I like lots of bars, I like a wide range of dining options and a range of shows although I often prefer the smaller shows that pop up in the different bars.

 

We haven’t yet cruised E class. We usually book RS or PH and they are expensive on E class compared to S class and have a covered balcony. We found on Silhouette (Revolutionised) we didn’t particularly use the suite sun deck. Gone are the days of ensuring you went home with a tan! We spent more time in the Solarium enjoying a swim and read…

 

Hence, next cruise we are happy with one of the S class ships that has not been revolutionised…We can get a lovely room with a nice balcony, the dining perks that are important to us and I shouldn’t have to queue anywhere. I will use the butler sometimes. I have the suite perks important to me…

 

So we could end up in the same boat (ship) next year! You because you want less of the ship being partitioned off for suite guests and me because I don’t see the sense in paying more for a Retreat deck I don’t particularly want and an Edge suite room that has cost me more and given me less….

 

If we do bump into each other you can have my reserved seats in the theatre!

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

Honestly on Edge-class in their theater with it being almost in the round, "front and center" isn't necessarily the best seat.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

Hello, my wife and I just returned from a cruise on Beyond, a Celebrity Ship. We are very frequent cruisers and we spend most of our time on Celebrity. But after this trip on Beyond, I am rethinking that decision. The ship itself is beautiful - the service was fine, dining was Celebrity average, and our stateroom was perfect. But they've been making some changes on board, slowly but surely, and on this trip we had the feeling that it's time to revolt. A new "class system" has been imposed on the ship.

 

One of the beauties of travel via cruise ship, at least on Celebrity in the past, has been that everyone is treated equal and the courtesies and services apply equally to all. Of course, there are class distinctions between those who buy Concierge or Aqua Class and Suites and so on. Those we are used to, and whether someone gets a tray of little appetizers before dinner or not has never affected us. Those were understandable distinctions between the price of the rooms.

 

But now, these Edge class ships have relegated the entire top/forward portion of the ship to suite passengers. OK -- I can even get used to that, although I certainly miss the wonderful viewing and cocktail lounge up there on the older ships (the Club doesn't cut it). This trip, we found that attending the theater at night was made difficult because they had security guys and roped off areas of the theater reserved for "high priority people." Now, I'm about as high up as you can get in their incentive program (one notch from top) so I was really surprised to find out that we are NOT high priority passengers. No sir, we had to sit off to the side or in the less-preferable seating no matter how early we showed up. They have these reserved, DESPITE the warning you are given audibly when they announce to the crowd "The saving of seats is prohibited." Well, clearly they don't take their own advice on this any longer.

 

I am not a grumbler. I accepted the Suites section that replaced my favorite lounge and I've accepted all the different cabin options that provide goodies like private dining or appetizers. But my family will not accept nor feel comfortable when a cruise line blocks entrance to their entertainment and suggests that there is some amorphous class of passenger who deserves my seat. I asked them each evening how these passengers were selected and the security guys could not or would not answer.

 

Is this the beginning of a slippery slope? Will there be more ropes and seat blocking for these highly valued customers? Perhaps in Oceanview Buffet for the next round of changes? I thought that ALL guests on Celebrity were valued, in the same way and for the same reasons. We are loyal -- we are consistent providers of revenue to the corporation. When a company starts thinking that it is so unique it can separate people into groups like this . . . that's when they lose their core.

Edge class ships were designed with different areas, different access and a whole list of paid-for benefits, and you could pay extra for them if you wish to. Other ships have followed on Celebrity and frankly everywhere in cruising these days.   If it were a class system some passengers would be excluded to make these choices.  But they are not.  Anybody can use their vacation dollars any way they choose and customize their vacation.  

[hcat]

We do not mind if suite guests get special attention based on  higher cruise fare..or ZENITHS based on loyalty over many years.  Or AQ guests or Concierge based on fare inclusions...

 

BUT : we do oppose allowing some to pay just a bit extra to essentially cut the line is unfair..esp when the move up program  is filling ships to the max!

 

Just another money grab!

[RichYak]

8 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

However, what we're talking about here is a different matter entirely. This is something that Celebrity is taking AWAY from one class of people (the 60-70% that fills regular cabins at regular prices) and providing it to those who will pay to take that from the others.

This is really nothing new. On many ships, Celebrity has taken away front facing top decks for Retreat Sundecks, Michael's Club for the Retreat Lounge, and a portion of the MDR for Luminae. They've added more staterooms in what used to be common areas. In another thread, Celebrity has taken away access to the Sky Lounge for Park West.

 

This is the trademark of mass market cruise lines. This is Celebrity. They will chase extra revenue wherever they can.

[QuestionEverything]

Hence why there are many posters on the Oceania, Azamara, Regent, SB threads that used to patronize Celebrity - they are called "Celebrity Refugees".

I moved from Celebrity in 2019 due to all the aforementioned reasons.

No intention of returning.

[SRQbeachgirl]

This isn't exclusive to Celebrity or even the cruise industry. At Disney World, Universal Studios, and other amusement parks you can pay for premium seats at certain shows, get through ride lines earlier, and have access to special dining seating and venues. What is offered on cruise ships is no different, and it's been going on for YEARS across the industry. 

[canderson]

4 hours ago, chemmo said:

In recent months I have followed several posts which suggest with the price of suites on Celebrity that suite guests would be better moving to smaller ‘more exclusive’ lines…I continue to follow these posts but as yet I am unconvinced. I like lots of bars, I like a wide range of dining options and a range of shows although I often prefer the smaller shows that pop up in the different bars.

There's only one way to find out.

Example, Silversea, Silver Nova:

 

 

Numerous dining options, all but one of which have no upcharge.

 

[Oceangoer2]

10 hours ago, davejensen70 said:

a good seat in the theater if you get there early enough

There are many good seats.  We've had the opportunities to be seated in the 'roped off' section....which we pass on.  They, IMO, are not preferable to the location we choose (by ourselves not 'seated') to occupy.  Why are we now getting hung up on where we sit in a theatre which can oblige most of us?  Maybe it's because some of us are not feeling 'special' enough.  If I paid the high cost of these 'passes', I'd want to have something to show for it, and it seems having a seat in the roped off section makes one feel 'special'.

[Oceangoer2]

1 hour ago, QuestionEverything said:

Hence why there are many posters on the Oceania, Azamara, Regent, SB threads that used to patronize Celebrity - they are called "Celebrity Refugees".

I moved from Celebrity in 2019 due to all the aforementioned reasons.

No intention of returning.

If you left in 2019, I suppose you find this board a good place to feel superior?

[Oceangoer2]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

allowing some to pay just a bit extra

I don't think it's 'little' bit extra and for what you get, THAT is the ripoff, but some like to feel special at any cost.  These benefits are lipstick on the proverbial 'pig'...and expensive...$753.60 Canadian $$s.....I suppose if you have an inside cabin and purchase this package it'll benefit your vacation experience. 

 

Following from X site, comments in red:

 

"Unlock your ticket to a curated selection of experiences and upgraded access, including premium amenities and even more personalized services. Imagine breezing through priority check-in lines Not a long wait if any and going directly to a private welcome lunch You can get this with Concierge class and we bypass it (not all that good). You’ll enjoy a wide variety of perks, including reserved prime seating in The Theatre ??, premium Wi-Fi, and priority departure from ship to shore at ports of call that require tender service Not always . No detail is overlooked. Take your cruise to the next level." Which is?