Cigarette came on to balcony - burned shirt.

The reasons for not leaving objects on the balcony is not a "fire hazard" as you say but they can become debris/projectiles much like the cigarette which may not have been thrown overboard but may have been dropped accidentally.

 

Don't be so pedantic.

example?

Leaving stuff on a balcony is a fire hazard in the same way that a gas leak in your house is a fire hazard. By themselves, neither will cause a fire. Expose either to open flame, however... And that's why it's a good idea to fix gas leaks. It's also why it's a good idea not to leave combustible items unattended where idiots can throw fire at them. Never trust personal safety to the intelligence of the masses - you'll lose every time. ;)

This is perhaps the worst analogy I've seen in my life.

That aside, here's what I don't get. If someone feels they absolutely have to smoke on their balcony, despite knowing it violates the rules, is a nuisance to everyone around them, and is a fire hazard, how does this person not know how to safely dispose of a cigarette butt??? Cup of water anyone? I mean, seriously, these people are not only super annoying but dumb as bricks.

How is a shirt, or lets say a towel, left on a balcony a fire hazard but the same shirt or towel left in a cabin is not a fire hazard? Most shirts and towels do not spontaneously combust. The fire hazard is the cigarette discarded by the inconsiderate and thoughtless smoker.

agreed!

This is perhaps the worst analogy I've seen in my life.

 

That aside, here's what I don't get. If someone feels they absolutely have to smoke on their balcony, despite knowing it violates the rules, is a nuisance to everyone around them, and is a fire hazard, how does this person not know how to safely dispose of a cigarette butt??? Cup of water anyone? I mean, seriously, these people are not only super annoying but dumb as bricks.

Also agreed.

So many reasons not to smoke and specifically a rule that says "Don't do it on your balcony"

Glad this didn't turn into something bigger, but if OP is anything like me, that smoky shirt and I could not have lived in the same cabin for any length of time.

I’m onboard the Anthem right now and the smell of weed has wafted around my balcony on more than one occasion, including when I opened the door at 8 A.M. morning. Disgusted doesn’t describe how I feel about this. [emoji35]

 

 

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What can you do Robyn? Unless you can specifically id the balcony can't call security.

On a side note have you met up with Radio?

After seeing the thread title, I was just waiting for this hoary old tale to come out to justify not smoking.

 

 

 

Let me say that I quit smoking 40 years ago, and don't particularly like smoke, and am one of the few on CC who have actually fought fires at sea, so I feel that smoking should be restricted to a degree, but I also feel that facts should be used for the argument.

 

 

 

Now, to the Star Princess. The findings of the investigation board stated "in the absence of any other cause, it is assumed that the fire was started by a cigarette. Note that they did not say it was "likely" caused by it, but that they couldn't find any evidence of any definitive cause, so they assume that it was a cigarette.

 

 

 

Next, the investigators also believed that the cigarette landed on a towel, however, they were not able to recreate combustion using a cigarette and a Princess towel, under ideal conditions.

 

 

 

Finally, the fire spread not because balcony doors were left open, but because the balcony furnishings, and the dividers themselves were flammable, and this caused sufficient heat to transfer the fire through the steel of the wall to the paint and furnishings inside the cabin, as well as melting out the balcony door.

 

 

 

Now, while smoking on the balcony is against the rules, and leaving items on the balcony is not recommended (because it may not be there in the morning), what folks here are trying to say is what is known as the "swiss cheese" analogy of root cause analysis of an incident. If the cigarette butt is not thrown off the balcony, even if the shirt is there, there is no resulting fire. If the shirt is left on the balcony, but no cigarette is thrown, there is no resulting fire. The two "holes" of the cigarette being thrown, and the shirt being left out have to "line up" for there to be a "path" through those holes to the resulting fire.

 

 

 

Finally, for those who want to know how leaving a shirt on the balcony unattended could be a fire hazard, when the same shirt inside the cabin is not? Suppose the shirt is blown off the balcony, and covers an air intake grid on the side of the ship. The fan that is drawing air through this grid will start to work harder trying to draw air through a smaller, or completely blocked, opening. This could cause the fan bearings to overheat, or the drive v-belt to start slipping, causing the belts to catch fire. Another example of the swiss cheese analogy, where everything has to line up to achieve the disasterous result, and why risk management makes rules, instructions, and guidelines to keep the holes from lining up, like not leaving combustible material on the balcony.

Always a factual and interesting read. Nice to hear from the Pros.

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What can you do Robyn? Unless you can specifically id the balcony can't call security.

On a side note have you met up with Radio?

I know, there isn’t much I can do, especially since I couldn’t tell where the smoke was coming from.

Yes, I have met Radio [emoji4]

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I agree and this includes those who leave personal stuff on the balcony unattended, as this is obviously a fire hazard as well.

Things left on a balcony aren't a fire hazard. My sister routinely leaves her scuba gear on the balcony to dry, and I cannot imagine that as a fire hazard.

The problem is the careless smoker (and I'm a smoker myself, don't smoke on balconies or any other unapproved place on the ship).

Yes, one is an "explosion" and the other is a standard combustion... the only differences are in degrees, nothing else. Remember that 'think' thing :p

Leaving stuff on a balcony is a fire hazard in the same way that a gas leak in your house is a fire hazard. By themselves, neither will cause a fire. Expose either to open flame, however... And that's why it's a good idea to fix gas leaks. It's also why it's a good idea not to leave combustible items unattended where idiots can throw fire at them. Never trust personal safety to the intelligence of the masses - you'll lose every time. ;)

I actually called RCL about this and it's been deemed by the agent (and her supervisor) that leaving clothing items on a balcony is not a fire hazard.

Things left on a balcony aren't a fire hazard. My sister routinely leaves her scuba gear on the balcony to dry, and I cannot imagine that as a fire hazard.

 

The problem is the careless smoker (and I'm a smoker myself, don't smoke on balconies or any other unapproved place on the ship).

Another problem are those who post fictitious rules, and I completely agree with you. RCL told me over the phone that leaving clothing and towels on the balcony isn't a fire hazard.

Yes, one is an "explosion" and the other is a standard combustion... the only differences are in degrees, nothing else. Remember that 'think' thing :p

Right, just a matter of degrees......

I actually called RCL about this and it's been deemed by the agent (and her supervisor) that leaving clothing items on a balcony is not a fire hazard.

And while I agree that leaving items on the balcony are not, per se, a fire hazard, and that there is no "rule" against leaving things on the balcony (just a recommendation), I would love to know what training the customer service agent, or her supervisor, have in maritime fire prevention.

Leaving the shirt on the balcony is not the issue. Careless disposal of something lit, in this case a cigarette is.

Leaving the shirt on the balcony is not the issue. Careless disposal of something lit, in this case a cigarette is.

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This is why cruise ships should be entirely SMOKE FREE- or create a windowless ventless room somewhere deep in the bowels of the ship where smokers can enjoy their cancer sticks.

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This is why cruise ships should be entirely SMOKE FREE- or create a windowless ventless room somewhere deep in the bowels of the ship where smokers can enjoy their cancer sticks.

 

 

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The coal bunkers[emoji925]

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OP, sorry to hear that happened to you and hoping you still enjoyed the cruise. DW and I usually set our wet clothes out and bring them back in once they dry. No issues of having cigarette butts tossed our way but realize it could be a possibility.

Yes, JTB, We had a terrific cruise. Thanks

M

I was talking to my DH yesterday about rule and general precautions on the ship. I wish they would post them on the front page of the daily Cruise Compass on the first day. Reminders such as:

No Smoking Allowed on Balconies

Do Not Leave Any Personal Items on Balconies

Do Not Sit on Balcony or Ship Railings

Do Not Allow Your Children to Occupy Adult Only Areas

Be Respectful of Fellow Cruisers and Keep the Noise Down when Walking Through Hallways

Any have others to add?

I was talking to my DH yesterday about rule and general precautions on the ship. I wish they would post them on the front page of the daily Cruise Compass on the first day. Reminders such as:

No Smoking Allowed on Balconies

Do Not Leave Any Personal Items on Balconies

Do Not Sit on Balcony or Ship Railings

Do Not Allow Your Children to Occupy Adult Only Areas

Be Respectful of Fellow Cruisers and Keep the Noise Down when Walking Through Hallways

 

Any have others to add?

M fairly sure they post some of those but not all.

M fairly sure they post some of those but not all.

They do post them. I forget what the section is titled but it is something like Code of Conduct.

They do post them. I forget what the section is titled but it is something like Code of Conduct.

If I remember correctly, every day in the Compass there are a few of them noted in the upper corners.

Every day on the Compass there are a few of them noted in the upper. corners if I remember correctly.

I'll take note in twelve days.....:)