Noticing increasing number of "Service" animals!!!

[albether7]

I'm all in favor of REAL service animals...

 

...but you can get phony "certificates of service" so that the local cat-woman, down the street, you know who she is... can bring little MITTENS on her cruise.

 

I considering bringing my 80 lb Golden Retriever because of my "allergy" to cats. ;) She will sanitize the ship:o

 

Al out

[sparks1093]

Under the law as it exists there is not much that can be done about it and the cruise lines probably err on the side of caution to avoid legal trouble.

[Bonnie J.]

How many have you actually seen? How many were not dogs? We cruise a LOT (most 13 in one year) and rarely see a service dog. We've only seen Seeing Eye dogs. They are in the Seeing Eye harness. These dogs are fantastic and there is no reason a handicapped person should not bring the dog with them. Most Seeing Eye dog owners lost their sight, they were not born blind. Have also seen a dog 'litter' box off by itself in an area few passengers would see. I believe they are taught to 'go' and then 'go'.

(We lived near Morristown NJ, the international head quarters for the Seeing Eye where dogs were bred and trained with new masters. And, we adopted one of their dogs!)

[navybankerteacher]

I do not think anyone objects to genuine service animals - which I have seen on cruise ships; while I have not seen "emotional support" animals on ships, they are becoming more and more evident elsewhere: restaurants, supermarkets, public transportation, etc.

 

Perhaps it is time for some clear definitions of what is recognized as truly necessary and what should be seen as pure whim.

[sparks1093]

I do not think anyone objects to genuine service animals - which I have seen on cruise ships; while I have not seen "emotional support" animals on ships, they are becoming more and more evident elsewhere: restaurants, supermarkets, public transportation, etc.

 

Perhaps it is time for some clear definitions of what is recognized as truly necessary and what should be seen as pure whim.

 

The definitions are in place but many companies don't want to get into the litigation line where the courts will provide further clarification. As the OP pointed out getting the requisite documentation is relatively easy and if someone doesn't mind lying to get what they want they will be allowed to bring Fluffy onboard. Unfortunately there are far too many people willing to do that nowadays. (And this is also something that I have not personally witnessed on a cruise ship.)

[Markanddonna]

I've seen at least two on every cruise in the last few years. I heartily agree that real service dogs should be welcomed and accommodated and it made me so pleased to see one on our last transatlantic cruise (a service dog for a blind woman). The ship even blocked off the bow promenade area to set up the "facilities" for the three dogs.

 

The other two dogs were "foo foo" dogs in strollers. They had various outfits. One time, I witnessed the "diabetes alert dog" being given licks of an ice cream cone that the supposedly diabetic person was eating while sitting in the Windjammer. I'm pretty sure the dog should have been trained to nip at the "diabetic" person's hand if they reached for a sugary dessert...

 

My objection are the passengers who make a big deal over these faux service dogs and want to pet them and get the scoop from the owners on what the dogs are trained to do. Folks, you are just encouraging deceit!

[leaveitallbehind]

I do not think anyone objects to genuine service animals - which I have seen on cruise ships; while I have not seen "emotional support" animals on ships, they are becoming more and more evident elsewhere: restaurants, supermarkets, public transportation, etc.

 

Perhaps it is time for some clear definitions of what is recognized as truly necessary and what should be seen as pure whim.

 

I'm wondering if that was the category of the lhasa with a red bow collar we saw in the arms of a woman on Oasis a few years back.....:rolleyes:

Edited August 6, 2016 by leaveitallbehind

[zqvol]

I'm all in favor of REAL service animals...

 

...but you can get phony "certificates of service" so that the local cat-woman, down the street, you know who she is... can bring little MITTENS on her cruise.

 

I considering bringing my 80 lb Golden Retriever because of my "allergy" to cats. ;) She will sanitize the ship:o

 

Al out

 

How many service animals have you seen on a cruise?

[lisiamc]

I've seen at least two on every cruise in the last few years. I heartily agree that real service dogs should be welcomed and accommodated and it made me so pleased to see one on our last transatlantic cruise (a service dog for a blind woman). The ship even blocked off the bow promenade area to set up the "facilities" for the three dogs.

 

The other two dogs were "foo foo" dogs in strollers. They had various outfits. One time, I witnessed the "diabetes alert dog" being given licks of an ice cream cone that the supposedly diabetic person was eating while sitting in the Windjammer. I'm pretty sure the dog should have been trained to nip at the "diabetic" person's hand if they reached for a sugary dessert...

 

My objection are the passengers who make a big deal over these faux service dogs and want to pet them and get the scoop from the owners on what the dogs are trained to do. Folks, you are just encouraging deceit!

 

How do you know it wasn't sugar-free ice cream? :)

 

I wonder if we're overly conditioned to think that dogs assisting with disability are all like guide dogs - big, business-like and on duty most of the time in public. The general public doesn't seem to take small dogs with less frequent duties seriously. I suppose there's no reason why a diabetes alert dog can't wear frou-frou ribbons or share a snack with his owner. Hopefully that dog only has to do his job every once in a while. I can see why the cruiselines feel that they have to take a passenger's word for it.

[tropicalkerry2002]

I will never forget the shivering, shaking chihuahua in the front of a grocery cart, wearing a vest that said "emotional support dog".

[CapeCodCruiser]

The definitions are in place but many companies don't want to get into the litigation line where the courts will provide further clarification. As the OP pointed out getting the requisite documentation is relatively easy and if someone doesn't mind lying to get what they want they will be allowed to bring Fluffy onboard. Unfortunately there are far too many people willing to do that nowadays. (And this is also something that I have not personally witnessed on a cruise ship.)

 

There is no requisite documentation except for an emotional support or therapy animal.

[albether7]

How many service animals have you seen on a cruise?

 

That's not the point...others have understood it: Taking advantage of a valuable service for personal selfish desires.

 

Look, Trying not to let my genius IQ to get in the way...:o

 

I really am a nice guy,

...really good looking too, according to the legally-blind, Amish lady I met a a local Hookah & Vapor Connection.:p

 

Anyway, I like to use some sarcasm and humor to point out the increase of cruise passengers claiming entitlements...

 

I just hope that those that genuinely benefit from this wonderfully, great program are not negatively impacted.

 

Consider this: Think of the day when my "service mongoose" meets up with your "Service Cobra".

A "Rikki-Tikki-Tavi" cage fight occurs in front of children who,"just wants to pet them"???

 

Ouch! Scarred for life...:eek:

 

I know this is absurd......or is it... Maybe, I'l run this by my new friend at the Hookah Hook-up!???:eek:

 

 

Al out

Edited August 6, 2016 by albether7

[Strophic]

The other two dogs were "foo foo" dogs in strollers. They had various outfits. One time, I witnessed the "diabetes alert dog" being given licks of an ice cream cone that the supposedly diabetic person was eating while sitting in the Windjammer. I'm pretty sure the dog should have been trained to nip at the "diabetic" person's hand if they reached for a sugary dessert...!

 

Total lack of understanding of diabetes is sadly so widespread. The whole point of a diabetic alert dog is to detect dangerously low blood sugar, for which eating a sugary treat is the correct course of action. "Diabetics can't eat sugar" is a decades-out-of-date misconception.

 

My boyfriend is Type 1 diabetic and he can have regular, full-sugar ice cream as often as he wants with no ill-effects as long as he gives himself the correct dosage of insulin for it...much to the annoyance of uninformed busybodies.

 

Most diabetics can tell when their blood sugar is low, but sadly the disease is progressive and people will often gradually lose their ability to detect lows—even dangerous lows—hence the potential usefulness of a hypo alert dog.

 

That said, all service dogs should be very well trained and strictly be in "work mode" while they are on the job. It sounds harsh, but true service dogs are essentially tools, so you can't really have a service dog and treat it like a purse pet at the same time.

[Krazy Kruizers]

For a while we were seeing quite a few service animals on HAL ships. One cruise there were at least 3 of them. One woman --- others and I suspected -- had her pet dog with her -- she was dirty -- never wore shoes -- the dog was dirty -- needed a good bath and they both smelled. Also the dog never wore the coat that said "service dog".

But a couple of the service dogs we have seen were legit. For a couple of years we ran into the same couple traveling with their service dog for the man who had diabetes. Their cabin was just down the hall from ours and one night we heard the dog yapping and sure enough the man was having a low sugar time. HAL usually puts this type of sign on the mail box when a service dog is on board and all the proper paperwork has been filled out ahead of time.

[xxoocruiser]

It's unfortnate that people do falsely identify their dog as being a service animals but with all do respect there is misinformation posted on this thread.

 

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows for Service Animal owners to be taken at their word and are limited to only two questions — and only if it isn’t obvious that the animal is a Service Animal. You may not demand proof that the animal has been certified, trained or licensed. With that said ADA Law only applies to one cruise ship which is NCL's Pride of America that is registered to the USA, sails under the USA Flag, is permannently based in the USA (specifically Hawaii) and sails only within the USA ( Hawaiian Islands).

 

Not every disability is apparent.

Be aware that many disabilities are invisible, such as deafness, epilepsy, autism, multiple sclerosis (M.S.), life-threatening allergies, psychiatric disabilities and others. In some cases, you may not be able to determine if someone is disabled or the extent of their disability.

 

It is illegal under USA Federal law for anyone to require documentation of a team.

Many disabled individuals choose to provide a vest for their Service Dog and/or carry identification, however it is not required that they do. You may encounter a disabled individual who chooses to keep their disability private. Their Service Dog may not be wearing a vest and they may not be carrying any documentation on their person. Other disabled individuals choose to make their own identification materials at home. If a team decides to present you with a card or other identification, it is their choice. Registering with us is a formal way for someone to declare they understand what is involved with training and using a Service or Assistance Animal; how important their behavior, and that of their Service or Assistance Dog is to the general public and other Service and Assistance Animal teams; the legal definition of a Service or Assistance Animal; the Minimum Training Standards for a Service or Assistance Animal and what is involved with a Public Access Test.

 

Vests or other identifying gear is not required.

While it's recommended that every team is clearly identified, Federal law is very specific about not requiring vests or other forms of identification. Many disabled individuals who use Service Dogs choose not to provide a vest for their dog because they don’t want to be labeled as disabled. They believe that a vest is like being emblazoned with a Scarlett Letter.

 

Service Dogs come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.

The ADA does not limit breed or size. For example, large dogs can be used for bracing those with balance or mobility issues. Small dogs are perfectly suited as Hearing Dogs or Medical Alert Dogs.

 

There is no universally recognized “certification” for Service Dogs (or trainers).

There is no such thing as a universally or legally-recognized certification, registration or training standards for Service Dogs — or trainers. While some trainers and organizations may say they “certify” their graduates, that status is something granted by them and is not recognized under law, and often not by other trainers or organizations. Anyone can call themselves a trainer and because there is such a wide variety of training techniques, styles, schools, online courses and more, there is no universally recognized standard. Some of the best trainers in the world have never graduated from a course, as well, some of the best Service Dog teams do not come from programs.

 

Cruise lines are limited by local goverment laws, in the USA by Federal Law for ships embarking from a USA port, as to what can asked

Under the USA Department of Justice which governs ADA Law A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person’s disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person’s wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).

Edited August 6, 2016 by xxoocruiser

[CPT Trips]

I will never forget the shivering, shaking chihuahua in the front of a grocery cart, wearing a vest that said "emotional support dog".

 

There is no requisite documentation except for an emotional support or therapy animal.

 

Only "service animals" are protected under ADA. The "emotional support" vest or assertion gives a business that does not allow doges every reason to refuse access. But, most businesses lack the willingness to have any possible confrontation.

 

That said, I have only seen obvious service animals twice in 15 or so cruises, and just one unlikely "service" dog.

[Flatbush Flyer]

The definitions are in place but many companies don't want to get into the litigation line where the courts will provide further clarification. As the OP pointed out getting the requisite documentation is relatively easy and if someone doesn't mind lying to get what they want they will be allowed to bring Fluffy onboard. Unfortunately there are far too many people willing to do that nowadays. (And this is also something that I have not personally witnessed on a cruise ship.)

 

 

Here below is the Oceania policy: not even service animals allowed - unless start/stop itinerary port is US. Even then, permission needed beforehand.

 

Oceania Cruises-No pets or other animals, except for certain necessary service animals of a disabled Guest, are allowed on board the Ship, and only allowed when Cruise embarks, disembarks or stops at a United States port. Guests wishing to bring a service animal on board the Ship must notify Carrier at the time of booking Cruise, and must receive Carrier’s written approval. Guest agrees to accept responsibility, reimburse and/or indemnify Carrier for any loss, damage or expense whatsoever related to the presence of any service animal brought on the Cruise, and to determine and meet any documentary or other requirements related to the service animal. Guest further agrees to be solely responsible for providing all food and/or other dietary requirements, medications or medical equipment required by the service animal. Passenger food, medications and/or medical treatment will not be provided by the Ship to any service animals.

[billfish]

It's unfortnate that people do falsely identify their dog as being a service animals but with all do respect there is misinformation posted on this thread.

 

The Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows for Service Animal owners to be taken at their word and are limited to only two questions — and only if it isn’t obvious that the animal is a Service Animal. You may not demand proof that the animal has been certified, trained or licensed. With that said ADA Law only applies to one cruise ship which is NCL's Pride of America that is registered to the USA, sails under the USA Flag, is permannently based in the USA (specifically Hawaii) and sails only within the USA ( Hawaiian Islands).

 

Not every disability is apparent.

Be aware that many disabilities are invisible, such as deafness, epilepsy, autism, multiple sclerosis (M.S.), life-threatening allergies, psychiatric disabilities and others. In some cases, you may not be able to determine if someone is disabled or the extent of their disability.

 

It is illegal under USA Federal law for anyone to require documentation of a team.

Many disabled individuals choose to provide a vest for their Service Dog and/or carry identification, however it is not required that they do. You may encounter a disabled individual who chooses to keep their disability private. Their Service Dog may not be wearing a vest and they may not be carrying any documentation on their person. Other disabled individuals choose to make their own identification materials at home. If a team decides to present you with a card or other identification, it is their choice. Registering with us is a formal way for someone to declare they understand what is involved with training and using a Service or Assistance Animal; how important their behavior, and that of their Service or Assistance Dog is to the general public and other Service and Assistance Animal teams; the legal definition of a Service or Assistance Animal; the Minimum Training Standards for a Service or Assistance Animal and what is involved with a Public Access Test.

 

Vests or other identifying gear is not required.

While it's recommended that every team is clearly identified, Federal law is very specific about not requiring vests or other forms of identification. Many disabled individuals who use Service Dogs choose not to provide a vest for their dog because they don’t want to be labeled as disabled. They believe that a vest is like being emblazoned with a Scarlett Letter.

 

Service Dogs come in all shapes, sizes and breeds.

The ADA does not limit breed or size. For example, large dogs can be used for bracing those with balance or mobility issues. Small dogs are perfectly suited as Hearing Dogs or Medical Alert Dogs.

 

There is no universally recognized “certification” for Service Dogs (or trainers).

There is no such thing as a universally or legally-recognized certification, registration or training standards for Service Dogs — or trainers. While some trainers and organizations may say they “certify” their graduates, that status is something granted by them and is not recognized under law, and often not by other trainers or organizations. Anyone can call themselves a trainer and because there is such a wide variety of training techniques, styles, schools, online courses and more, there is no universally recognized standard. Some of the best trainers in the world have never graduated from a course, as well, some of the best Service Dog teams do not come from programs.

 

Cruise lines are limited by local goverment laws, in the USA by Federal Law for ships embarking from a USA port, as to what can asked

Under the USA Department of Justice which governs ADA Law A public entity shall not ask about the nature or extent of a person’s disability, but may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. A public entity may ask if the animal is required because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. A public entity shall not require documentation, such as proof that the animal has been certified, trained, or licensed as a service animal. Generally, a public entity may not make these inquiries about a service animal when it is readily apparent that an animal is trained to do work or perform tasks for an individual with a disability (e.g., the dog is observed guiding an individual who is blind or has low vision, pulling a person’s wheelchair, or providing assistance with stability or balance to an individual with an observable mobility disability).

 

If I read this correctly I should have no problem getting my dog on the Vista next year. Not that I plan to While we will miss him dearly. It is not fair for him to be put the hassle what would have to go through to get to the ship as well as the time on the ship.

[Dayenu]

I saw service dogs for blind on the ships only twice. Even though I am not a pet person, I admired those well-behaved helpers.

 

I take a bus to/from work every day, and often on weekends. Most often it would be a canine or feline companion of a mentally sick person, if a pet is on the bus. Haven't seen this kind on ships.

 

I would rather err and allow "fake" service pets on the ship than to keep somebody at home.

[sparks1093]

Here below is the Oceania policy: not even service animals allowed - unless start/stop itinerary port is US. Even then, permission needed beforehand.

 

Oceania Cruises-No pets or other animals, except for certain necessary service animals of a disabled Guest, are allowed on board the Ship, and only allowed when Cruise embarks, disembarks or stops at a United States port. Guests wishing to bring a service animal on board the Ship must notify Carrier at the time of booking Cruise, and must receive Carrier’s written approval. Guest agrees to accept responsibility, reimburse and/or indemnify Carrier for any loss, damage or expense whatsoever related to the presence of any service animal brought on the Cruise, and to determine and meet any documentary or other requirements related to the service animal. Guest further agrees to be solely responsible for providing all food and/or other dietary requirements, medications or medical equipment required by the service animal. Passenger food, medications and/or medical treatment will not be provided by the Ship to any service animals.

 

 

We're reading that differently, I cannot believe they won't allow a seeing guide dog onboard regardless of port of embarkation.

[CapeCodCruiser]

I saw service dogs for blind on the ships only twice. Even though I am not a pet person, I admired those well-behaved helpers.

 

I take a bus to/from work every day, and often on weekends. Most often it would be a canine or feline companion of a mentally sick person, if a pet is on the bus. Haven't seen this kind on ships.

 

I would rather err and allow "fake" service pets on the ship than to keep somebody at home.

 

Big difference - most service animals are not pets. They are working animals - especially dogs for vision impaired. That is a high stress job for a dog. Yes - dogs & their handlers form an incredible bond - but the dogs first priority is its work. They actually have & need time off to rest & relax.

 

Diabetic dogs & seizure alert dogs & cats are in a less stressful position and will interact more pet-like with their handlers.

 

All of them will be trained to behave appropriately in ANY situation. You should not even notice them most of the time.

[navybankerteacher]

If, as quoted above, ADA provides for service animal owners to be "taken at their word" as to their conditions and the necessity/ability of their pets to ameliorate those conditions, we must expect ever-increasing cases of absurd abuse -- where selfish people are able to bring any sort of pet along: not only does it give them the utterly unnecessary pleasure of being accompanied by Fifi - they are able to save themselves kennel costs -- by imposing upon fellow travelers.

 

Just one more example of poorly considered legislation.

[chengkp75]

While diabetes alert dogs do tend to be of the smaller lap dog size, since they frequently need to be close to the person's mouth to detect the ketones given off by a sugar low, the ADA is very clear that there are only two places these dogs are to be: on the floor, or in the person's arms. Placing a dog in a stroller or on a chair in a dining venue is not allowed, anywhere, and typically a sure sign that the dog is not a true service animal.

[chengkp75]

If, as quoted above, ADA provides for service animal owners to be "taken at their word" as to their conditions and the necessity/ability of their pets to ameliorate those conditions, we must expect ever-increasing cases of absurd abuse -- where selfish people are able to bring any sort of pet along: not only does it give them the utterly unnecessary pleasure of being accompanied by Fifi - they are able to save themselves kennel costs -- by imposing upon fellow travelers.

 

Just one more example of poorly considered legislation.

 

While I agree that it is silly (JMHO) not to require documentation of the dog's service, nor central registry or standardization of training, it is done in the US's typical need not to offend anyone, as it is stated that revealing the nature of the disability the dog serves would embarrass the person.

 

The problem onboard cruise ships becomes more complex due to the fact that the ships do not have to fully comply with the ADA. In Specter v. NCL, the US Supreme Court ruled that accessibility is required if it does not contravene SOLAS, and if it can be done without major redesign of the ship. It also specifically states that barring a clear mandate from Congress (in other words a revision of the act to specifically include foreign flag ships as being subject to the ADA), then the ship's "internal policies and procedures" are not subject to the ADA. So it is then not clear whether asking about the service provided by the dog is covered by the "internal policies" or not, and you then get into litigation.

[CapeCodCruiser]

We're reading that differently, I cannot believe they won't allow a seeing guide dog onboard regardless of port of embarkation.

 

I have not seen where other countries have laws regarding service animals like the US does.

 

Some cruise lines are very strict allowing only service dogs (not sure how they'd do with a miniature horse) as prescribed by law and others are more generous allowing other types of service animals.