Your Thoughts on Cruise Ship Captain's Salary

[chengkp75]

13 hours ago, MasterNotCommander said:

 

True, but a 70 hour week is the absolute bare minimum on a commercial ship for the entirety of a contract. Also appreciate that to obtain command the previous 15 years at sea will have been a minimum of 8 months away per year. 

 

You cant really compare a seafaring job to anything shoreside. And if you crunched the numbers the Captain would probably be better of working the same number of hours per annum as a supervisor at McDonald’s.

Wow, so a Captain's job is a "prison term"?   Never found a Master in 43 years that felt that way.  What is wrong with the "criminalization" of the mariner?  We are licensed as professionals, so we should be held to professional standards.  To say that Captains are convicted of "laws they knew nothing about" (why don't they make the time to study maritime law, since that is a large part of their job), or "ridiculous technicalities" (I guess this is about record keeping trivialities like an oil record book?), is specious as well, since we are again licensed to be responsible for our actions.

 

The divorce rate among mariners is no different than that for Captains.  It is a problem of the time away, not the stress of the position.  I've been married to my wife for 43 years, from the very beginning of my career at sea.

 

Not sure how McDonald's pays their supervisors in Oz, but in the US, the average salary for a supervisor is in the $60k range, about half of what the Captain makes.  Captains that I know, don't feel any great strain of "responsibility", even in the litigious atmosphere of the US.

 

I agree that there are pros and cons to the profession, but I don't feel that the Captains or most officers are extremely underpaid for their qualifications or for their home country's economy. 

[AmazedByCruising]

6 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

In the US, if you are on salary, there is no "contract" specifying work hours.  This has been a legal dodge by companies over the last couple of decades, where the company decrees someone is "management", and puts them on salary, to stop the claim for overtime.

 

If I'd ask people to work for free, during times when they'd be picking up the kids or be in the gym, they'd work somewhere else in no time.  Then again, programmers in the US are paid more than over here I think.

[Hlitner]

18 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Cruise ship passengers???? What do you mean, Dean?

LOL, Captains and senior officers are also passengers :).  It is kind of an inside joke.  Late one evening (that would be after 9:30 on HAL) DW and I were sitting at the Crow's Nest bar sipping wine with Captain Gundersen and the Beverage Manager.  A fellow passenger walked up to the Captain, did a double take, and actually had the nerve to say "I thought only passengers drank at the bar."  The Captain, without missing a beat simply said, "we are all but passengers on the sea."

 

Hank

[doublebzz]

On 9/6/2018 at 7:32 PM, sail7seas said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is clearly underpaid. Military pay seems to have no connection to reality

 

 

Firstly, I join those that opine a Captain's salary is none of our business.  With respect to the issue of military pay and as a former U.S. Navy captain, let me say being skipper of a missile destroyer was the most fulfilling and rewarding time of my life and the highlight of my navy career.  The pay I was receiving was almost irrelevant and I suspect most navy veterans who shared this experience feel similarly.

 

 

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Edited October 28, 2018 by doublebzz

[ladocevita]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:45 AM, HUNKY said:

Doing some web research I have found that cruise ship captains most likely earn between 150 to 200K USD per year. That seems awfully low for someone in charge of a ship costing over a billion dollars and having thousands of "souls" onboard.

 

Are they also paid bonuses dependent on how profitable, or not, a particular voyage is?

I heard they get a bonus if they save fuel. They deserve more IMHO

[MasterNotCommander]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Wow, so a Captain's job is a "prison term"?   Never found a Master in 43 years that felt that way.  What is wrong with the "criminalization" of the mariner?  We are licensed as professionals, so we should be held to professional standards.  To say that Captains are convicted of "laws they knew nothing about" (why don't they make the time to study maritime law, since that is a large part of their job), or "ridiculous technicalities" (I guess this is about record keeping trivialities like an oil record book?), is specious as well, since we are again licensed to be responsible for our actions.

 

The divorce rate among mariners is no different than that for Captains.  It is a problem of the time away, not the stress of the position.  I've been married to my wife for 43 years, from the very beginning of my career at sea.

 

Not sure how McDonald's pays their supervisors in Oz, but in the US, the average salary for a supervisor is in the $60k range, about half of what the Captain makes.  Captains that I know, don't feel any great strain of "responsibility", even in the litigious atmosphere of the US.

 

I agree that there are pros and cons to the profession, but I don't feel that the Captains or most officers are extremely underpaid for their qualifications or for their home country's economy. 

 

With regards the laws I was referring to, this isn’t about the major internationally recognised and ratified ones, but situations where local towns and cities have created laws in a local language and have them expected foreign trading ships to comply without the ship being informed. The carnival Corp has been involved in some major legal battles in recent years because of these. 

 I can bet divorce rates on passenger ships are far higher then elsewhere in the industry (I’ve worked merchant and cruise ships), because it’s a very different lifestyle and there is frequent opportunity to stray with fellow crew members, I met my wife who was working on a cruise ship and she wouldn’t let me work on one again even if I wanted to.

 I can only say from my experiences, and don’t get me wrong because I thoroughly enjoyed working on cruise ships, but I certainly wouldn’t get out of bed for the salary and conditions on offer. 

 This isn’t about trying to make anyone feel pity for these Captains, Officers and crew, it’s just stating some facts.

 That said, if all the salaries onboard were paid at the domestic rate of the nationality of the passengers onboard than the average joe wouldn’t be cruising and we’d be back to the days of only the very rich enjoying it.

[chengkp75]

I've been in situations as you say where there are local laws and conditions, but this is where the local agent comes in to inform the ship about these, and if the cruise line isn't getting good representation from their agents, that falls on the corporate officers.

 

While you are correct that putting the crew wages at the level of the passenger's home country, rather than the crew's countries, then cruising would not be affordable, but this also applies to the other 95% of world shipping, which handles over 80% of world commerce, and raising the wages to the levels in the countries receiving the goods would stifle the entire world economy and make every consumer item from food to cars far more expensive.

 

And speaking for someone who gets US wages for working on the ship, and who has seen a completely flat wage level for the 40+ years of my career, I still don't feel that the current levels of pay (which are not that higher in the US than most cruise ships these days) are not representative of the training or responsibility of the job.  Would I like more pay?  Sure, but so would 100% of workers in the world.

[Aquahound]

The best of ships' captains are those who are not motivated by money.  There's a certain pride and prestige that comes with mastering a ship, especially a cruise ship, and the great ones are those who are proud of their profession.  

 

Edited October 28, 2018 by Aquahound

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

The best of ships' captains are those who are not motivated by money.  There's a certain pride and prestige that comes with mastering a ship, especially a cruise ship, and the great ones are those who are proud of their profession.  

 

Paul;

They move you again?

[Aquahound]

15 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Paul;

They move you again?

 

Yes sir.  I've been promoted.  I'm in the process of moving to Seattle. 

[mcrcruiser]

Reading this thread is very interesting . Never gave too much thought of what any ships Captain  went through  during their time on the ship  & I suspect most people think like me when on a cruise

 

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

Yes sir.  I've been promoted.  I'm in the process of moving to Seattle. 

Good for you.  Seattle has better beer than NOLA, but not like New England!

[AmazedByCruising]

1 hour ago, Aquahound said:

The best of ships' captains are those who are not motivated by money.  There's a certain pride and prestige that comes with mastering a ship, especially a cruise ship, and the great ones are those who are proud of their profession.  

 

 

I just saw a talk from Kilian Wawoe who was in charge of bonusses at a big bank and returned to university to study these things.  He says after a certain level of income, any extra money is nice but not very important, it's just a number. Your only concern is your neighbour who may have gotten a bigger number, while your daily salary could be a lifetime salary for many in India.

 

I found that when you can afford any restaurant without thinking about the bill, life gets a lot more easy. 

[ladocevita]

“I found that when you can afford any restaurant without thinking about the bill, life gets a lot more easy”

 

Never thought of it that way. Thanks

 

We are truly blessed !

[hrhdhd]

On 10/27/2018 at 2:33 PM, sail7seas said:

Some news papers will print the   salaries of 'public servants,'      whether it is right to do  so or not.

 

In FL, with our "government in the Sunshine" laws, they can request (and publish) the salary of any state worker. Some papers or weeklies will do it just to cause consternation.

Edited October 29, 2018 by hrhdhd

[acrowe]

100k as a captain? doubtful..long haul pilots are paid much more, as are they. They get the time off because of the stress and responsibility. Many long haul pilots only fly a few times a month. This link is from 19 years ago. Guessing it's a VERY least 500k per year.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/jobs-careers/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-cruise-ship-captain.aspx

 

 

[MasterNotCommander]

23 minutes ago, acrowe said:

100k as a captain? doubtful..long haul pilots are paid much more, as are they. They get the time off because of the stress and responsibility. Many long haul pilots only fly a few times a month. This link is from 19 years ago. Guessing it's a VERY least 500k per year.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/jobs-careers/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-cruise-ship-captain.aspx

 

 

 

Well I can tell you catagorically that it is wrong, I left the cruise industry for marine piloting only a few years ago and things haven’t increased significantly since then. 

 

US$100-$150k would be about right and for some of the smaller cruise lines it will be sub $100k. 

[acrowe]

43 minutes ago, MasterNotCommander said:

 

Well I can tell you catagorically that it is wrong, I left the cruise industry for marine piloting only a few years ago and things haven’t increased significantly since then. 

 

US$100-$150k would be about right and for some of the smaller cruise lines it will be sub $100k. 

I guess that the link I showed was incorrect. (probably not). What person in their right mind takes that kind of responsibility for 100-150K? I have kids that work for me in IT that make a lot more. This is a silly argument and the evidence shows such.

[MasterNotCommander]

5 minutes ago, acrowe said:

I guess that the link I showed was incorrect. (probably not). What person in their right mind takes that kind of responsibility for 100-150K? I have kids that work for me in IT that make a lot more. This is a silly argument and the evidence shows such.

 

Well I don’t know the authority of that website, but I can certainly say that HAL, P&O, Princess, RCCL etc are NOT earning 500k. 

[MasterNotCommander]

16 minutes ago, acrowe said:

I guess that the link I showed was incorrect. (probably not). What person in their right mind takes that kind of responsibility for 100-150K? I have kids that work for me in IT that make a lot more. This is a silly argument and the evidence shows such.

 

Here are some links to a website primarily focused around British seafarers.

 

https://www.officercadet.com/forum/officers/qualified-officers/9284-cruise-ship-salaries

 

https://www.officercadet.com/forum/discussion-and-news/the-anonymous-forum/8811-officercadet-seagoing-salary-survey-2015

 

https://www.officercadet.com/forum/discussion-and-news/industry-news-and-discussion/5600-officercadet-seagoing-salary-survey-2013

[acrowe]

that is insane. if you think that is accurate rethink your logic. not even worth debating. looks like a discussion forum you are quoting. these people are professionals. IT people make more in a base salary..a GP in medicine makes 2x that for the most part. ridiculous. no person of any intellect would take on that responsibility for that salary. common sense needs a place here.

Edited October 29, 2018 by acrowe
dumbness

[GUT2407]

Amazing how fixated some people are on what others earn.

 

captains

crew

longshoremen

 

 

just amazing.

[Aquahound]

2 minutes ago, GUT2407 said:

Amazing how fixated some people are on what others earn.

 

captains

crew

longshoremen

 

 

just amazing.

 

Great point.  It's a great honor in some traditional seafaring places, like Italy and the Netherlands, to become a cruise ship captain.  Leave it to us on this side of the pond to bash their salaries and remind them we make more by doing less. 🙄

[MasterNotCommander]

38 minutes ago, acrowe said:

that is insane. if you think that is accurate rethink your logic. not even worth debating. looks like a discussion forum you are quoting. these people are professionals. IT people make more in a base salary..a GP in medicine makes 2x that for the most part. ridiculous. no person of any intellect would take on that responsibility for that salary. common sense needs a place here.

 

The point is, the salaries are insanely poor. I worked for HAL and now am a Marine Pilot, many of my friends still remain as Captains with HAL, RCCL, Disney, P&O etc so If you want to keep arguing your point based on some random website in lieu of believing someone who was employed by HAL then carry on...

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, acrowe said:

100k as a captain? doubtful..long haul pilots are paid much more, as are they. They get the time off because of the stress and responsibility. Many long haul pilots only fly a few times a month. This link is from 19 years ago. Guessing it's a VERY least 500k per year.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/jobs-careers/a-day-in-the-life-of-a-cruise-ship-captain.aspx

 

 

 

8 hours ago, acrowe said:

I guess that the link I showed was incorrect. (probably not). What person in their right mind takes that kind of responsibility for 100-150K? I have kids that work for me in IT that make a lot more. This is a silly argument and the evidence shows such.

Well, I'm still in the industry, earning US wages on a US ship, which have been the highest in the world, and the cause of the demise of the US maritime industry.  There is no job on a ship, anywhere in the world, at any time, that has made anything close to $350k US, especially in today's dollars.  While US Captains have made $130-150k back 40 years ago, and that was quite good money back then ($700k in today's dollars), that wage level has stayed pretty flat over that time period, being degraded by inflation, to where Captains now earn $150-180k.

 

I worked for NCL in 2004-2008, and I can tell you that the foreign flag Captains who had US citizenship and could transfer their licenses to US looked forward to getting a job on the US ships, because the wages were better on the US flag ships.  A Captain back then, with a Norwegian license and on a Bahamian flag ship was making $100-120k US.

 

Maritime wages for officers other than US have always been lower than US maritime wages, though that gap has been closing over the 43 years of my career, since the US wage has been flat, and they are now within 20% of each other.  Cruise ship officers earn slightly less than their cargo ship counterparts from the same countries, and they know and accept this because they prefer the environment of the cruise ship workplace over a cargo ship.

 

Your statement about kids in IT earning more is correct.  My son, 25 years my junior, earns far more than I do, working for an insurance company.  This is why salaries for first world mariners have not appreciated much over the years, and why the vast majority of jobs at sea (1.6 million is the latest figure I've seen) are from developing countries where wages are low by first world standards but high by the standards of these developing nations, and the people are willing to work long hours and have traditions of "guest worker" jobs where you are gone from home for months or years, like going to sea.

 

And salaries in the US are not high because of responsibility, but because of demand, and also because of our standard of living.  US business models are such that they make so many middle managers that no one has any real responsibility.

Edited October 29, 2018 by chengkp75