Your Thoughts on Cruise Ship Captain's Salary

[alwaysfrantic]

I will say I'm very glad no one gets a list of my husband's salary and prints it.

[CruiserBruce]

I will say I'm very glad no one gets a list of my husband's salary and prints it.

 

Unfortunately that is not true for everyone...when my name and salary were on the front page of our local paper...

[OlsSalt]

I will say I'm very glad no one gets a list of my husband's salary and prints it.

 

Compensation disclosure is more common than you might think and can be a best practice. Taxpayers in California can now look up every single public employee by name or job description and find out their full costs to taxpayers - not just their "salaries" through a website called Transparent California. This has been very helpful.

 

When the revenue generator does have a very direct interest in knowing what they are paying for personnel costs, is when this need for disclosure is most obvious. Corporate industry also has to be responsive to shareholders So in general transparency is the better course to follow. Charitable organizations are also subject to public disclosure to protect any tax benefits they receive.

[navybankerteacher]

How about the pay of the driver on the 42nd Street Crosstown bus in New York? Think about the thousands of people per week he maneuvers through dense traffic.

 

Or the second grade teacher whose ability and attitude can seriously impact the development of our children or grandchildren.

 

Or the aircraft jet engine maintenance man - whose careful attention to detail might (or might not) detect the defective turbine blade which might fail in mid-flight and cause the engine to fly apart and bring down the plane.

 

Our lives are profoundly interwoven with people whose performance affects us - we just hope that they do their jobs -evaluating their compensation is outside of our pay grade.

[Copper10-8]

How about the pay of the driver on the 42nd Street Crosstown bus in New York? Think about the thousands of people per week he maneuvers through dense traffic.

 

Or the second grade teacher whose ability and attitude can seriously impact the development of our children or grandchildren.

 

Or the aircraft jet engine maintenance man - whose careful attention to detail might (or might not) detect the defective turbine blade which might fail in mid-flight and cause the engine to fly apart and bring down the plane.

 

Our lives are profoundly interwoven with people whose performance affects us - we just hope that they do their jobs -evaluating their compensation is outside of our pay grade.

 

Bravo Zulu Navy! :)

[sammiedawg]

How about the pay of the driver on the 42nd Street Crosstown bus in New York? Think about the thousands of people per week he maneuvers through dense traffic.

 

Or the second grade teacher whose ability and attitude can seriously impact the development of our children or grandchildren.

 

Or the aircraft jet engine maintenance man - whose careful attention to detail might (or might not) detect the defective turbine blade which might fail in mid-flight and cause the engine to fly apart and bring down the plane.

 

Our lives are profoundly interwoven with people whose performance affects us - we just hope that they do their jobs -evaluating their compensation is outside of our pay grade.

 

Wait a minute- I rode that crosstown bus last week but didn’t think to ask the driver about his wages. Wonder if he earns more than the driver of the M15 down Second Avenue, which seems easier to navigate.

 

The Holland America board has many posters who really enjoy delving into subjects above their pay grade. But it is harmless diversion, often entertaining reading.

Speculate away.

[chengkp75]

The real money makers apparently are the port pilots - a very tightly controlled organization, and from what I heard, about $400K a year packages. Jumping from pilot boat to ship on the high seas is not for the faint of heart. But it remains debatable in these days now of electronic navigation and instant communications how valid these onboard positions wiil remain.

 

That amount of compensation can be true for some ports, and not so for other ports. The pilot's association is a privately held association owned by the pilots themselves, who then have to pay for the office and staff, the pilot boats and crew, fuel, insurance, etc, that all businesses deal with. The amount of money a pilot makes is determined by how busy a port is, and how experienced the pilot is. Newer pilots only handle smaller ships, and therefore make less money than the more experienced pilots.

 

As to how valid a pilot's position is, even with today's "electronic navigation and instant communication", allisions and collisions by ships still occur, even with a pilot onboard. Even those who propose the "autonomous ship" with no crew onboard, do not figure on operating in restricted waters (pilotage areas) without human presence. And the pilot, who may dock a ship every day for two weeks on duty (sometimes more than one), has far more experience with the local conditions than a Captain who may come in even every week. That pilot gets 7 times the experience the Captain does every year.

[Copper10-8]

That amount of compensation can be true for some ports, and not so for other ports. The pilot's association is a privately held association owned by the pilots themselves, who then have to pay for the office and staff, the pilot boats and crew, fuel, insurance, etc, that all businesses deal with. The amount of money a pilot makes is determined by how busy a port is, and how experienced the pilot is. Newer pilots only handle smaller ships, and therefore make less money than the more experienced pilots.

 

As to how valid a pilot's position is, even with today's "electronic navigation and instant communication", allisions and collisions by ships still occur, even with a pilot onboard. Even those who propose the "autonomous ship" with no crew onboard, do not figure on operating in restricted waters (pilotage areas) without human presence. And the pilot, who may dock a ship every day for two weeks on duty (sometimes more than one), has far more experience with the local conditions than a Captain who may come in even every week. That pilot gets 7 times the experience the Captain does every year.

 

And another excellent post, thanks Cheng

[chengkp75]

Compensation disclosure is more common than you might think and can be a best practice. Taxpayers in California can now look up every single public employee by name or job description and find out their full costs to taxpayers - not just their "salaries" through a website called Transparent California. This has been very helpful.

 

When the revenue generator does have a very direct interest in knowing what they are paying for personnel costs, is when this need for disclosure is most obvious. Corporate industry also has to be responsive to shareholders So in general transparency is the better course to follow. Charitable organizations are also subject to public disclosure to protect any tax benefits they receive.

 

More important than general salary disclosure, and I feel that there is a difference between disclosing public employee salaries to corporation salaries, is whether or not the salary being paid by a particular corporation is within the norm for the industry. My experience with Scandinavian cruise ship officers is that they make slightly less than their counterparts on cargo vessels. Those who choose cruise ships accept this discrepancy in favor of the atmosphere and life onboard.

[chengkp75]

And another excellent post, thanks Cheng

 

Hey, John, glad to see you back.

 

One thing most US cruisers should reflect on is that the salary mentioned by the OP is similar or more than most doctors and lawyers make in European countries, placing it right in line with other professionals.

[HUNKY]

OP here. The main point of my post is that I was surprised by the salary of a cruise ship captain. More shocking is the USN captain salary!

 

BTW I'm paid $2.13 hourly plus an average tip percentage of 18% of sales.

 

Interesting article, August 31, 2018, in the New York Times on discussing pay in the workplace. Yes, most employees have the legal right to discuss their pay amongst themselves.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sail7seas]

I don't think that is awfully low. Consider that they usually work 3 months, off three months, work three months and off three months (this doesn't include the world cruise captain). So they are only working 6 months of the year compared to many of us who got (or get 3 - 4 weeks off a year).

Don't know if they get bonuses. Our first jobs we didn't get bonuses. Second jobs did.

 

 

I have been told t here are 'some bonuses'. but probably not nearly all there should be.

 

 

 

Some vacation time is eaten up by continuing ed and specific fields of study.

[iancal]

I have zero insight into the industry so I would have no idea where they sit on that pay scale. Nor do I care. Why on earth should I?

 

They do not work for a taxpayer funded organization hence I have no reason to care about the compensation plan. I cannot even comment on their work schedules or work environment.

 

Bottom line it is none of my business and even if I did know the number would be meaningless without some knowledge of the industry. Cannot see why anyone needs to know, other that such interest might be an attribute of a busybody.

[sail7seas]

+1

 

 

:)

[OlsSalt]

NPR provides more background about port pilots - risks and rewards: https://www.npr.org/2012/03/21/149091141/harbor-pilots-reap-high-rewards-for-dangerous-job

[SetAnOpenCourse]

We are not in the least bit curious. It is difficult to equate someone's value to society to their salary or their earnings. The system does not work that way.

(bolding mine)

 

Ha! That’s for DARN sure!

 

Count me with those that are curious, like the OP. I make less than the aforementioned estimate for cruise ship captains, but think they should make easily twice that estimated range. Their level of their skills, competence and responsibilities is SO much higher than many people in that salary range.

Edited September 2, 2018 by SetAnOpenCourse
to bold

[chengkp75]

NPR provides more background about port pilots - risks and rewards: https://www.npr.org/2012/03/21/149091141/harbor-pilots-reap-high-rewards-for-dangerous-job

 

I would still debate that the figure given is an "average". Yes, there are pilots that make that much, but many do not. Also, since the pilot's association is a private organization, each pilot has to "buy into" the consortium, paying a share of the value of the business. Most take out loans for this, and that eats up a good portion of their salary as well.

[chengkp75]

(bolding mine)

 

Ha! That’s for DARN sure!

 

Count me with those that are curious, like the OP. I make less than the aforementioned estimate for cruise ship captains, but think they should make easily twice that estimated range. Their level of their skills, competence and responsibilities is SO much higher than many people in that salary range.

 

Not really. As I noted, you must compare the Captain's salary with salaries of professionals from their home country, not the inflated salaries of the US, and these salaries are quite in line. So, yes, you could say that a ship's Captain has much more responsibility than someone making $150-200k in the US, but then again, US maritime wages are higher as well. And the Captain's (or any maritime officer) skill set is not that much greater than other professionals, it is just a unique skill set.

 

And, while you cannot equate lives with dollars, and cruise ship Captains deal with the safety of many lives, a container ship Captain is responsible for cargo that has a value equal to the cost of a cruise ship every voyage, and a tanker Captain has about a thousand fold ability to adversely affect the environment. Remembering that 75% of the world's economy travels by sea, first cruise ships represent a tiny fraction of world shipping tonnage, and secondly it is all about market factors. If shipping costs go up, shipping volume either goes down, or end user prices go up to cover the additional cost.

[Hlitner]

Not really. As I noted, you must compare the Captain's salary with salaries of professionals from their home country, not the inflated salaries of the US, and these salaries are quite in line. So, yes, you could say that a ship's Captain has much more responsibility than someone making $150-200k in the US, but then again, US maritime wages are higher as well. And the Captain's (or any maritime officer) skill set is not that much greater than other professionals, it is just a unique skill set.

 

And, while you cannot equate lives with dollars, and cruise ship Captains deal with the safety of many lives, a container ship Captain is responsible for cargo that has a value equal to the cost of a cruise ship every voyage, and a tanker Captain has about a thousand fold ability to adversely affect the environment. Remembering that 75% of the world's economy travels by sea, first cruise ships represent a tiny fraction of world shipping tonnage, and secondly it is all about market factors. If shipping costs go up, shipping volume either goes down, or end user prices go up to cover the additional cost.

 

Well said (as usual). Of course you might be one of the first to agree that both cruise ship Captains and Chief Engineers are woefully under compensated :).

 

Speaking of harbor pilots, while one car certainly debate their degree of usefulness....the insurance carriers generally make that debate moot.

 

Hank

P.S. Just teasing....

[Aquahound]

Doing some web research I have found that cruise ship captains most likely earn between 150 to 200K USD per year. That seems awfully low for someone in charge of a ship costing over a billion dollars and having thousands of "souls" onboard.

 

Are they also paid bonuses dependent on how profitable, or not, a particular voyage is?

 

I guess that is low considering San Francisco is paying people up to $180,000 to pick up human poop. :D

[AV8rix]

Well, this may be thread drift, maybe not – since we’ve “opened the door” (as the attorneys say) on the subject of harbor pilots. Perhaps Cheng and/or Copper John can explain something that I’ve never understood about harbor pilot procedures:

 

Why do they still always use the Jacob’s ladder on cruise ships? Yes, I get why they do it on cargo/tanker/container ships. I’ve seen a few Coast Guard medical evacuations on our ships in US waters. They transfer the patient on a litter to the CG vessel through the tender break via the tender platform. It always looks so easy! For a long time I’ve wondered why the harbor pilots don’t minimize their risk when such a safe avenue is theoretically available to them. Sorry for the thread drift.

[chengkp75]

Well said (as usual). Of course you might be one of the first to agree that both cruise ship Captains and Chief Engineers are woefully under compensated :).

 

Speaking of harbor pilots, while one car certainly debate their degree of usefulness....the insurance carriers generally make that debate moot.

 

Hank

P.S. Just teasing....

 

While I won't say we are undercompensated, after all, I've done this job at the going rate for 43 years, I can say that in the US flag fleet, we have seen stagnant salaries for my entire career. A Chief 43 years ago made the same in nominal dollars as I do now, and in constant dollars that is about an 80% reduction in buying power. Our salaries are now far more consistent with other nation's maritime officers than they have been since WWII. The salary has allowed my family a good life, and allowed my wife to not have to work while our kids were growing (though in later years, we did use the additional income when she returned to the work force), and our family doesn't (now that the kids are grown and they understand economics) begrudge my being away since it provided their good life at the cost of my missing many family milestones. Would I like a higher salary? Who wouldn't. Does it make economic sense to the shipping companies? Nope, hence no pressure to raise salaries to keep quality personnel.

 

And, even more than insurance requiring harbor pilots, it is local law that requires them, or like in the case of NCL's POA, the Captains and Staff Captains have all obtained pilotage for the ports of call in Hawaii.

[Stratheden]

Never was curious about this' date=' none of my business.[/quote']

Exactly.

[TAD2005]

People mentioned that they don't care what ship captains make or even airline pilots.

Remember the Colgan Air flight 3407 back in 2009, operating as a Continental Connection flight. It was found that the pilot and first officer were extremely tired going into their duty shift. The reason is that their salaries were under $30 K per year, and they couldn't afford a "shared crash pad" near Newark airport. So the captain slept in the airport the night before, and the FO, who lived in Seattle, dead-headed on an overnight flight to Newark. So, low pay of the regional airlines, who contract with the majors, and fly under their livery, does have an impact on the job performance of the crews.

[Copper10-8]

Well, this may be thread drift, maybe not – since we’ve “opened the door” (as the attorneys say) on the subject of harbor pilots. Perhaps Cheng and/or Copper John can explain something that I’ve never understood about harbor pilot procedures:

 

Why do they still always use the Jacob’s ladder on cruise ships? Yes, I get why they do it on cargo/tanker/container ships. I’ve seen a few Coast Guard medical evacuations on our ships in US waters. They transfer the patient on a litter to the CG vessel through the tender break via the tender platform. It always looks so easy! For a long time I’ve wondered why the harbor pilots don’t minimize their risk when such a safe avenue is theoretically available to them. Sorry for the thread drift.

 

Mainly has to do with time, because it takes a while for the sailors (on HAL the ones that do it are called Life Saving Attendants, commonly known as "Boatmen") to hydraulically lower and then manually rig one of the tender platforms). A good pilot, once his boat is alongside the cruise ship (and with the seas cooperating) is onboard the big ship in 10-20 seconds. Then it's just a matter for the boatmen to pull in the ladder and close and secure the shell door. Taking apart a tender platform and hauling in back up can take up to ten minutes

Most, if not all, pilots are very used to coming onboard and, upon departure, disembarking the ship via pilot (or Jacob's) ladder from one of the break doors. The only one I've ever heard complain (and he wasn't a pilot) was a canal inspector inside the Panama Canal

Medical evacs by boat (so not by helo) are a different ballgame all together. You can't lower a patient, let alone one in serious condition, down a Jacob's ladder. If a rescue boat is coming alongside, the tender platform is rigged and made ready and the transfer takes place that way.

Oh, and to make things more interesting, there are certain ports, Le Havre and Dunkirk, France, comes to mind, where the harbor pilot comes onboard (and departs) via helo (helicopter) ;)