wheezedr Posted September 12, 2018 #1 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Was looking at the Viking cruise Cuba, Panama and the Pacific in November and December of 2018 and I have a technical question. Am I missing something or does the current itinerary not violate the PVSA. The cruise goes Miami to LA or the reverse, but does not stop in either SA or one of the ABC islands. How are they going to satisfy the distant foriegn port requirement to transport passengers between 2 US ports? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUT2407 Posted September 12, 2018 #2 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The full itinerary might help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Avery Posted September 12, 2018 #3 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Was looking at the Viking cruise Cuba, Panama and the Pacific in November and December of 2018 and I have a technical question. Am I missing something or does the current itinerary not violate the PVSA. The cruise goes Miami to LA or the reverse, but does not stop in either SA or one of the ABC islands. How are they going to satisfy the distant foriegn port requirement to transport passengers between 2 US ports? Miami to LA? First off Panama would qualify, as would Cuba or any other foreign port. The "distant" port angle is rather flexible, last time I looked. Could be wrong.:eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfool Posted September 12, 2018 #4 Share Posted September 12, 2018 The full itinerary might help Thursday, November 22Miami, FLEmbark Friday, November 23At Sea Saturday, November 24Santiago de Cuba, Cuba Sunday, November 25At Sea Monday, November 26Cienfuegos, Cuba Tuesday, November 27At Sea Wednesday, November 28At Sea Thursday, November 29Puerto Limon, Costa Rica Friday, November 30Colon, Panama Saturday, December 1Panama Canal (Full Transit) (Cruising) Sunday, December 2At Sea Monday, December 3Puntarenas, Costa Rica Tuesday, December 4Corinto, Nicaragua Wednesday, December 5Puerto Quetzal, Guatemala Thursday, December 6At Sea Friday, December 7At Sea Saturday, December 8At Sea Sunday, December 9Cabo San Lucas, Mexico Monday, December 10At Sea Tuesday, December 11At Sea Wednesday, December 12San Diego, CA I see two possibilities. 1. They will notice this and make some sort of correction. 2. They will not notice, a huge fine will be assessed, someone will be looking for a new job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thinfool Posted September 12, 2018 #5 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Miami to LA? First off Panama would qualify, as would Cuba or any other foreign port. The "distant" port angle is rather flexible, last time I looked. Could be wrong.:eek: Unless you have a very recent document that modifies the PVSA, Panama is in Central America...does not qualify as a distant foreign port. CBP is very specific about the 'distant' port...no flexibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Avery Posted September 12, 2018 #6 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Unless you have a very recent document that modifies the PVSA,Panama is in Central America...does not qualify as a distant foreign port. CBP is very specific about the 'distant' port...no flexibility. Right you are. I was looking in the wrong place. My bad.;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamloops50 Posted September 12, 2018 #7 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Thursday, November 22Miami, FLEmbarkFriday, November 23At Sea Saturday, November 24Santiago de Cuba, Cuba Sunday, November 25At Sea Monday, November 26Cienfuegos, Cuba Tuesday, November 27At Sea Wednesday, November 28At Sea Thursday, November 29Puerto Limon, Costa Rica Friday, November 30Colon, Panama Saturday, December 1Panama Canal (Full Transit) (Cruising) Sunday, December 2At Sea Monday, December 3Puntarenas, Costa Rica Tuesday, December 4Corinto, Nicaragua Wednesday, December 5Puerto Quetzal, Guatemala Thursday, December 6At Sea Friday, December 7At Sea Saturday, December 8At Sea Sunday, December 9Cabo San Lucas, Mexico Monday, December 10At Sea Tuesday, December 11At Sea Wednesday, December 12San Diego, CA I see two possibilities. 1. They will notice this and make some sort of correction. 2. They will not notice, a huge fine will be assessed, someone will be looking for a new job. youll be fine because you stop in Colon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise Junky Posted September 12, 2018 #8 Share Posted September 12, 2018 youll be fine because you stop in Colon. How so? Colon is in Central America. It needs to be South America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homosassa Posted September 12, 2018 #9 Share Posted September 12, 2018 I wonder if the ports of call at Cuba are considered distant foreign ports. Many of the cruises from the USA leave from a Florida port, visit only Cuba, and return to the USA port. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILCIANRQTS Posted September 12, 2018 #10 Share Posted September 12, 2018 Fine is $778 per person! Suspect they’ll add Cartegena, Columbia as it’s close to their route. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise Junky Posted September 13, 2018 #11 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I wonder if the ports of call at Cuba are considered distant foreign ports. Many of the cruises from the USA leave from a Florida port, visit only Cuba, and return to the USA port. That’s a closed loop cruise, not a one way. Different rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceLovesSailing Posted September 13, 2018 #12 Share Posted September 13, 2018 I don’t think this applies to Viking. On the CBP site the PVSA law limiting coastwise trade for non-US ships defines coastwise as follows: “@the term “coastwise” refers to vessels engaged in domestic trade, or those traveling regularly from port to port in the United States. BLACK’S LAW DICTIONARY 233 (5th ed. 1979).” VO doesn’t engage in domestic trade or travel on a regular basis, therefore PVSA doesn’t apply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILCIANRQTS Posted September 13, 2018 #13 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Here’s the text of the law. Draw your own conclusions. https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICP%20Pax%20Vessel%20Services%20Act%20Apr%202010.pdf Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILCIANRQTS Posted September 13, 2018 #14 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Another version... http://www.cruiselaws.com/CruiseLaws/USA/Cruise_Laws_Passenger_Vessel_Security_Act_2002.pdf Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharTrav Posted September 13, 2018 #15 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Here’s the text of the law.Draw your own conclusions. https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICP%20Pax%20Vessel%20Services%20Act%20Apr%202010.pdf Sent from my iPad using Forums The link you gave doesn't work. Don't know why. But perhaps this one that contains a link to the pdf document you were trying to share does: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharTrav Posted September 13, 2018 #16 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Bottom line - I agree it be confusing but clearly given the fact they've done cruises from Miami to LA via the Panama Canal before and have them scheduled now, I would think they've got it covered. Now to read the full text of that pdf. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise Junky Posted September 13, 2018 #17 Share Posted September 13, 2018 The link you gave doesn't work. Don't know why. But perhaps this one that contains a link to the pdf document you were trying to share does: https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/23/~/the-jones-act-%26-the-passenger-vessel-services-act Sent from my iPhone using Forums Works fine for me. And has a Viking done a Panama Cruise before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CILCIANRQTS Posted September 13, 2018 #18 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Viking does have a Miami to LA that transits the canal but does not touch a South American port. They did do a Central America cruise, but it left and returned to the same US port - Miami. Issue is when US departure and disembarking ports are different. Sent from my iPad using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heidi13 Posted September 13, 2018 #19 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Based on my understanding of the US PVSA, the cruise outlined in a previous post does not comply with the Act, unless the vessel has a coastal trade certificate - this means it was built in the US, maintained entirely in the US and crewed by US crew. Since the Viking ships do not meet any of these criteria; for a non-coastal vessel to transport passengers from 1 US port to another US port, either directly or via a foreign port, it must visit at least 1 port meeting the criteria for a "Distant Foreign" port. The Act exempts all Canadian, Central American, Bermuda, Bahamas and all Caribbean Ports (except ABC islands) as being distant foreign ports. I believe the Panama Canal, Colon, Cristobal, Panama City are considered to be in Central America. Therefore, for this cruise to meet the requirements of the PVSA, my understanding of the Act is it must dock in Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao or any South American port, such as Cartagena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharTrav Posted September 13, 2018 #20 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Works fine for me. And has a Viking done a Panama Cruise before? Yes. Panama & Central America, started and ended in Miami. Cruises were from Nov 2017 thru Jan 2018. Included a half transit of the Canal - up to the Gatun Lake and back. The reaction to it was I think not that great. We did it last January. And there were some issues. So I think the Miami to San Diego cruise may be a replacement for it. Again - I think a careful reading of the pvsa doc from 2010 make it clear that they're not in violation. And I really think that the legal beagles at Viking aren't stupid. Oh. The cruise we did last January did hit Cartagena. Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise Junky Posted September 13, 2018 #21 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Yes. Panama & Central America, started and ended in Miami. Cruises were from Nov 2017 thru Jan 2018. Included a half transit of the Canal - up to the Gatun Lake and back. The reaction to it was I think not that great. We did it last January. And there were some issues. So I think the Miami to San Diego cruise may be a replacement for it. Again - I think a careful reading of the pvsa doc from 2010 make it clear that they're not in violation. And I really think that the legal beagles at Viking aren't stupid. Sent from my iPhone using Forums To me Cuba is the unknown. Everything else is an absolute violation. But I have no idea of Cuba’s affect on the act. A half transit runs on completely different rules as it returns to the same port. No distant port required. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharTrav Posted September 13, 2018 #22 Share Posted September 13, 2018 To me Cuba is the unknown. Everything else is an absolute violation. But I have no idea of Cuba’s affect on the act. A half transit runs on completely different rules as it returns to the same port. No distant port required. OK. If they add a stop in Cartagena before the transit thru the Canal? Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruise Junky Posted September 13, 2018 #23 Share Posted September 13, 2018 OK. If they add a stop in Cartagena before the transit thru the Canal? Sent from my iPhone using Forums Absolutely. That’s what most ships do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharTrav Posted September 13, 2018 #24 Share Posted September 13, 2018 Viking monitors this forum pretty well. Who wants to take bets on a change to that itinerary?[emoji848] Sent from my iPhone using Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrina651 Posted September 13, 2018 #25 Share Posted September 13, 2018 How long must a ship stay in the "distant port" for it to count? Could they pull into Cartagena for an hour or two overnight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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