History of Cruises

[NicolePTS]

Hi, we're looking for an expert who can give us examples of cruise prices over the past 100 years - can you help? Thank you!

[Been There, Planning That]

P & O - Orient Lines aboard Oriana - 09 - 1966  passage for two  from Vancouver to Sydney Australia in an inside cabin with bunk beds - $1020 USD.

 

We'd used it more as transportation when it was cheaper to sail than fly.

 

Ruth

Edited January 23, 2019 by Been There, Planning That

[leaveitallbehind]

100 years - 1920?  Don't think there was such a thing as vacation cruising then - just ocean passages!  But I can add 1992 RCI Sovereign of the Seas Deck 6 (Tween deck) Ocean View 7-night Eastern Caribbean @ $1,620 for two.

Edited January 23, 2019 by leaveitallbehind

[hancock]

100 years ago there were ocean liners, no cruise ships.

[George C]

My first 7 day cruise was the Rotterdam in 1977 cost me 600 for the week single cabin,  normal rate was 400. 

[Essiesmom]

You need to start with books by this man:  https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/books/john-maxtone-graham-an-authority-on-ocean-liners-dies-at-85.html

 

He lectured on two of the cruises we took.  Between our cruises (2002, 2008) he had moved from a slide presentation to power point.  No bad for a man in his late 70's.  

 

There were 'journeys' that were not crossings, specially arranged...Read Mark Twain's The Innocents Abroad (1860's) and the journal of a man who tried to recreate this voyage in 1908, The Ship Dwellers; A Story of a Happy Cruise by Albert Bigelow Paine.  I actually preferred the latter, have read it twice (was free for Kindle, as is the Twain book).

 

My first two cruises were in 1972, ten days on Home Lines Homeric, $350 solo in a cabin with a bunk, sink, bathrooms and showers down the hall.  EM

Edited January 23, 2019 by Essiesmom

[donaldsc]

Based on the fact that this is your first post, can we assume that you have been assigned to write a research  paper or report.  If so, I would suggest that you do your own research.  This means going back to original source material.

 

DON

[davekathy]

7 hours ago, NicolePTS said:

Hi, we're looking for an expert who can give us examples of cruise prices over the past 100 years - can you help? Thank you!

Welcome to CC.

[Been There, Planning That]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Based on the fact that this is your first post, can we assume that you have been assigned to write a research  paper or report.  If so, I would suggest that you do your own research.  This means going back to original source material.

 

DON

 

Essiesmom offered sources of  published historical research.  But interviews with experts in a field of interest being investigated is usually accepted in research projects too.  Now the reliability of our reports might be questionable but surely a serious student would account for the source of his data.

 

I admit though donaldsc that the expressed purpose of the question was probably a 'bit shady.'

 

Ruth - retired teacher of gifted kids

Edited January 23, 2019 by Been There, Planning That

[BaumD]

My Grandparents took their honeymoon cruise from NYC to Bermuda on the SS Fort Victoria in 1926. It sank in New York Harbor in 1929, Just Google "SS Ft. Victoria". I did some internet research on the ship a few years ago and it was a "cruise ship".

 

 

[lenquixote66]

My first cruise was on a Cunard ship in 1973. A 7 day cruise from NYC to Bermuda $699 for my wife and I.

 

My father came to the US  in 1913 on an ocean  liner.I have  a copy of the menu.It was better than anything on a cruise ship today.

[whogo]

13 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

The Ship Dwellers; A Story of a Happy Cruise by Albert Bigelow Paine.

Thanks for the recommendation, I just downloaded it.

[Heidi13]

Agree with Don in that it is probably a request for information for some type of project/report.

 

Going back 100 years, passenger transportation at sea was primarily carrying mail, cargo and passengers between continents. Most routes were to/from UK/mainland Europe. Check out Europe/USA, Europe/India and Europe/Australia. Ships back in those days had multiple classes from 1st class to steerage.

 

Since A/C was primitive with scoops stuck out of portholes being popular, a common phrase was "POSH". Originated on British Lines P&O and BI between UK and India. This was wealthy passengers selecting the cooler side of the ship, depending on whether outbound or inbound. The most expensive cabins were Port side on the outbound voyage and inbound on the homeward voyage. So cabin prices varied by class and also the side of the ship.

 

The liner trade started to decline with the advent of air travel, so about the late 60's/early 70's cruising was started. However liners still completed some liner voyages. SS Oriana cruised Europe in the summer, then headed to Australia for the winter, returning to Southampton for the summer.

 

In the early 70's they started building purpose built cruise ships, many which had diesel engines, which were much cheaper than the boiler/turbines on the steam ships. However, the first cruise ships were smaller at about 700 passengers.

 

Over the past 40 years, ships have got bigger and on mainstream lines the quality and level of service has been significantly reduced. Therefore, cruise rates on mega ships really haven't changed significantly since the advent of cruising. 

 

Therefore, to compare apples to apples you can really only compare prices for the past 40 to possibly 50 years. To go further back you could compare the old liner voyages to World Cruises & Grand Voyages.

 

Another consideration when comparing prices is current proliferation with extra costs on board mainstream mega ships. The base fares in the 70's included significantly more than the current base fares, unless comparing to a premium/luxury line.

[MicCanberra]

A very long time ago, you could cruise for free, they offered a 40 night cruise but you did have to be related to the captain and have a thorough knowledge of what to feed animals.

[chengkp75]

The first recognized "cruise ship" was the Prinzessin Victoria Louise, built in 1900 with the express intent of taking people on "pleasure voyages", stemming from the HAPAG line's director realizing that passenger ships were basically unused during the winter as no one wanted to cross in bad weather, and so he started sending the liners south in the winter.  The Victoria Louise only sailed for 6 years before running aground.

 

For a comparison of cruise prices, a first class suite on Titanic went for $4350 (over $50,000 in today's dollars), and steerage (shared bunk room) was $40 ($460 today).  This was for a six day crossing.

Edited January 24, 2019 by chengkp75

[Essiesmom]

6 hours ago, whogo said:

Thanks for the recommendation, I just downloaded it.

 

This is the ship he was on:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Aeolus_(ID-3005)  It was the Grosser Kurfurst before the US seized it in WWI.

He is very fond of adjectives, and the narrative stops with Egypt (part of the exotic orient).  I think he ran out of adjectives.  EM

[Mike981]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

The first recognized "cruise ship" was the Prinzessin Victoria Louise, built in 1900 with the express intent of taking people on "pleasure voyages", stemming from the HAPAG line's director realizing that passenger ships were basically unused during the winter as no one wanted to cross in bad weather, and so he started sending the liners south in the winter.  The Victoria Louise only sailed for 6 years before running aground.

 

For a comparison of cruise prices, a first class suite on Titanic went for $4350 (over $50,000 in today's dollars), and steerage (shared bunk room) was $40 ($460 today).  This was for a six day crossing.

Now this is great information. I always wondered what it cost in today's dollars. Given that many people would struggle to come up with $400 in cash TODAY, I can't imagine how hard it was to get $460 back in the days of the Titanic.

[SRF]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Since A/C was primitive with scoops stuck out of portholes being popular, a common phrase was "POSH". Originated on British Lines P&O and BI between UK and India. This was wealthy passengers selecting the cooler side of the ship, depending on whether outbound or inbound. The most expensive cabins were Port side on the outbound voyage and inbound on the homeward voyage. So cabin prices varied by class and also the side of the ship.

 

 

I think that the given explanation for POSH has been thoroughly debunked.

 

 https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/posh

 

There is no evidence to support the folk etymology that posh is formed from the initials of port out starboard home (referring to the more comfortable accommodation, out of the heat of the sun, on ships between England and India).

 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/posh

 

Word origin of 'posh'

prob. < obs. Brit slang posh, earlier push, poosh, a dandy < ?

 

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/posh

 

Most likely derived from Romani posh (“half”), either because posh-kooroona (“half a crown”) (originally a substantial sum of money) was used metaphorically for anything pricey or upper-class, or because posh-houri "half-penny" became a general term for money.

 

A popular folk etymology holds that the term is an acronym for "port out, starboard home"^[3], describing the cooler, north-facing cabins taken by the most aristocratic or rich passengers travelling from Britain to India and back. However, there is no evidence for this claim.

[whogo]

4 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

A very long time ago, you could cruise for free, they offered a 40 night cruise but you did have to be related to the captain and have a thorough knowledge of what to feed animals.

Better than free, my grandfather was paid a shilling when he crossed to London in a cattle ship in about 1910.

[SRF]

My Dad got paid for a number of cruises.

 

Korea in the early 50s.  Several to the Far East in the late 50 and 60.  And one Med cruise in the late 60s.

 

He did have to work a bit.

 

And the ships were gray.  But meals were included.

 

😄

 

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, SRF said:

 

I think that the given explanation for POSH has been thoroughly debunked.

 

 https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/posh

 

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/posh

 

 

Didn't actually mention the derivative of the word posh, as I was discussing a nautical phrase or acronym, that is part of nautical folklore, especially on UK passenger ships. I believe the definition of "Folklore" is customs, beliefs, stories, etc that are passed down through generations, by word of mouth.

 

Having worked for P&O and sailed on both P&O and British India ships, I learned many of the old stories and nautical terminology from Captains and Officers, I sailed with. The POSH phrase or acronym was one of the many stories passed down while learning the history of this great shipping line and the marine industry as a whole. This is classic nautical folklore.

 

While I acknowledge that P&O state they have no records, but having actually worked for them, I am not surprised. DW took a cruise Vancouver to Sydney with them in 1978 and they have no records of that, so expecting accurate records from the early 1900's is a bit of a stretch.

 

Personally, I place a fair bit of credence on what I learned from the older officers, while a cadet, and have no doubt that this phase/acronym was used to describe passengers that booked one side of the ship outbound and then at a later date, booked the other side of the ship for the homeward voyage.

 

This is also relevant to the OP's request since cabins on the cooler side of the ship were more expensive and normally booked by those with money. Again this is nautical folklore, but I also found reference in the book - The Last of the Bengal Lancers by Brigadier Ingall, who has 1st hand experience, having sailed on the BI ship Nevasa.

[nybumpkin]

On 1/23/2019 at 10:58 AM, Essiesmom said:

You need to start with books by this man:  https://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/08/books/john-maxtone-graham-an-authority-on-ocean-liners-dies-at-85.html

 

He lectured on two of the cruises we took.  Between our cruises (2002, 2008) he had moved from a slide presentation to power point.  No bad for a man in his late 70's.  

 

One of Maxtone-Graham's books, Liners to the Sun, contains a good history of early cruising and his earlier book, The Only Way to Cross, has stories about liners doing cruises in the 1930s.

 

DH's grandparents did a NYC-Bermuda cruise in January 1938. I have the paperwork for the cruise, but no cost information - DH's grandfather was escorting a group of the "super salesmen" from his company, so the cruise was paid for by the company. I wish companies still offered that kind of incentive.☺️

[lamchops]

My father worked as a cook on a supply freighter doing a weekly route from Vancouver to Alaska in the 1960s. There were a small number of passenger cabins onboard. (6?) I got to tour the ship as a 10 year old. Our first cruise was an Alaska cruise in 1993 visiting the same ports. He used to mention killing time at the Red Dog saloon.😀

Edited January 25, 2019 by lamchops

[Essiesmom]

You might do some reading here:  https://www.cruiselinehistory.com/

[Heidi13]

13 hours ago, lamchops said:

My father worked as a cook on a supply freighter doing a weekly route from Vancouver to Alaska in the 1960s. There were a small number of passenger cabins onboard. (6?) I got to tour the ship as a 10 year old. Our first cruise was an Alaska cruise in 1993 visiting the same ports. He used to mention killing time at the Red Dog saloon.😀

Did he work on the Frank H Brown or Klondike, which operated Vancouver to Skagway.