Mobility-impaired—disappointed on Edge

[Alakegirl]

Nephew and niece are on Edge and report poor access for a mobility impaired person using a scooter, with no device for lowering him into any pool, narrow passage in the casino, and worst of all, a useless elevator in Eden.  What have others found?

[Bo1953]

There have been a few comments on this topic and I Am sure when they see your topic comments will be made here.

 

Sorry to hear about this issue. There was a posted photo of the lift for the outdoor pool, not sure about the indoor pool though.

 

Eden and elevator was commented on as well, narrow maneuvering for 'larger' scooters, one poster was able to use that elevator, again it was scooter size which I interpret as it not being big enough, as well.

 

bon voyage

[Alakegirl]

So sorry, she wrote “indoor” and somehow I transferred that to “any” when writing about the pool chair.  

[PatC]

Agree 100%.  My husband had a battery powered chair which is not as long as a scooter.  That elevator was useless to try to turn while trying to get out.  Too small for scooters.  The pool "chair" was ridiculous and those ramps to nowhere for handicapped were terrible.  The Rooftop Garden was crazy to attempt to get to, forget the Sunset Bar altogether.  If you wanted to go there you had to go thru the large smoking area and then it narrowed so badly you were stuck.  The other end were only stairs!!!!!

 

Sadly, even tho the doorways to the cabins were great for all handicapped equipment and the bathrooms were wonderful also,  the common areas of the ship were not.  Forget ever going to the Martini Bar on Edge class.

 

Sadly, again, we won't be sailing this class unless suggestions are made by those who can anticipate special needs and the "power that is" heeds it.

 

Pat C

[cruisestitch]

When I ran into areas on edge that were only accessible by steps I kept thinking to myself “what were they thinking?”  Who designs a public structure that way, be it a stationary or a floating one.  And I am wondering, is there any place on an S Class ship that is inaccessible to a scooter user?  The helipad, but anywhere else?

[CHEZMARYLOU]

52 minutes ago, cruisestitch said:

When I ran into areas on edge that were only accessible by steps I kept thinking to myself “what were they thinking?”  Who designs a public structure that way, be it a stationary or a floating one.  And I am wondering, is there any place on an S Class ship that is inaccessible to a scooter user?  The helipad, but anywhere else?

While we are not mobility impaired we have been all over S class ships and cannot remember any areas inaccessible except the helipad and the top most deck that they are converting to the suite retreat area.  Even the final deck plan for M class ships shows an ADA ramp up to the retreat.

[montgomeryfamily]

I have been trying to confirm that there is a lift into the pool/hot tub in the suite retreat area and cannot find anyone who can/will give me an answer, even the access dept of Celebrity.  Since there are a number of wheelchair accessible sky suites, there should be a lift into the pool/hot tub, but I'm concerned that Celebrity hasn't bothered to install them.

 

Unless you really understand the limitations of wheelchair users who cannot walk, it is difficult to see the areas which are actually inaccessible.  In some cases, inaccessibility is caused by the placement of furniture or other things, such as trash cans blocking the stall in the bathroom or soap dispensers which are out of reach for those sitting in a wheelchair.  In other cases it is the failure to provide mechanisms which can create accessibility.  For example,  there is no lift into the T-pool on any of the ships and only a lift into one( or two on some ships) hot tubs on any of the ships. Adding a lift would make those areas accessible.  On three different cruises on M class ships, the only hot tub lift was to one hot tub on the entire ship and it was out of order.  So no use of the hot tub on that entire cruise.  

 

There are also several other areas that are not wheelchair accessible on the S class and/or M class ships, including (but not limited to) the various showers in the Persian Gardens and the heated tile beds, the lower level of the theatre on the M class ships, the stage area (so no backstage tour possible or going down to the front for the meet/greet of singers/dancers, etc).  If you are in a wheelchair because you cannot walk, there are several areas on all of the ships you can't access or activities in which you cannot take part.  Even several of the so-called wheelchair accessible shore excursions require the participant to be able to walk up the steps of the tour bus. 

 

Only the sky suites are wheelchair accessible--none of the other suites are, so wheelchair users who want to book a suite and receive the suite benefits are limited to that category.  Wheelchair users booked in sky suites should expect to have full use of the suite retreat area, including the hot tub and (where present) the pool.  There is no discount given for not having access to those amenities (and without the lift, there is no access).

[jcpc]

I have very bad knees and stairs are troublesome for me (I can manage a few stairs comfortably but not a lot of them)..  I found the layout of the Edge very troublesome for someone with bad knees so I can definitely sympathize with folks who are wheelchair bound or depend on a scooter to get around.  Many times I would see folks in a scooter arrive at a "dead end".  I guess that cruise ships do not need to adhere to ADA standards.

[chengkp75]

8 hours ago, jcpc said:

  I guess that cruise ships do not need to adhere to ADA standards.

While I fully empathize with the mobility impaired, and was involved in conducting compliance survey and retrofit for a cruise ship to fully meet the ADA, the simple fact is that you are correct, as a foreign flag cruise ship, the SCOTUS has found that they only need to comply with the ADA to a limited degree.  As with most legal protections that US citizens come to feel are their right, if you want these protections while cruising you will need to only cruise on US flag ships.  The SCOTUS case, Spector v NCL, found that there are other considerations that will trump the ADA (SOLAS in particular), and that ADA accessibility needs only be provided "where practicable", and without major redesign of the vessel.  Further, the ship's "internal policies and procedures" are exempt from the ADA.

[hcat]

Re EDGE

Definitely saw a lift at Solarium hot tub..pretty sure there was one for the  Solarium pool but can't say 100%...the Thermal suite area looked okay..flat surfaces.

 

The forest of wierd trees on way to and from  BLU and EDEN  is a disaster for anyone to negotiate, let alone a scooter..It is dark by design with flashy lights and the pathway other than direct center tiles varies. Not enchanting at all...

 

Stairs down and up at Martini bar were thoughtless,  as are the ridiculous  hobbit height chairs without arms  in EDEN and many other areas of the ship

Watching folks get in and out was not very funny..designers made a big miss on seating!

 

 

[chemmo]

12 hours ago, cruisestitch said:

When I ran into areas on edge that were only accessible by steps I kept thinking to myself “what were they thinking?”  Who designs a public structure that way, be it a stationary or a floating one.  And I am wondering, is there any place on an S Class ship that is inaccessible to a scooter user?  The helipad, but anywhere else?

 

We cruised the Eclipse (twice) when I was (temporarily) fairly immobile and using a chair and crutches. The S class was perfect ....The ‘ducking stool’ as my husband described it into the Solarium pool was wonderful as was the jacuzzi nearby. No issues getting anywhere in the ship I wanted to go to....We didn’t attempt the helipad although as that is a working rather than a guest area I would not expect it to be made accessible. 

 

I must confess, it wasn’t until I found myself on crutches and using a chair that I appreciated the ‘mountain’ one small step represented. 

 

Although I am now back on two feet I still appreciate flat floors! With the increasing numbers of guests who can walk, but not far, who are becoming regular scooters owners and users I would have thought newer ships would be more accessible than older ones....only goes to show how wrong you can be.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2019 by chemmo

[cruisestitch]

Montgomeryfamily, Cruise Critic has published scores of photos that will answer many of our questions.  Here are two pictures of the retreat pool area....no lift chairs to be seen😢

[Caribbean Chris]

I was interested in accessibility on Edge, too, because I travel with a service dog, and many of my fellow handlers use a chair, scooter, walker, or cane - while managing a dog alongside. Everybody in that situation simply wants to be able to take the dog to the relief station several times a day without help but it’s rarely possible.

 

Along with areas PatC and others mentioned, there’s a challenge at the double paired glass doors on Deck 5 forward - between the Edge theater area and the outside (the route to the service dog relief box location). Only the exterior pair is automatic if you push a lighted button at the center of the doors -  the interior pair has a press-bar and push action needed to open. It is an improvement over the extremely heavy wooden doors on some ships, but a regression from two sets of fully-automatic doors on Solstice Class. (Getting from the exterior deck to the box itself is also inaccessible with a chair on Solstice Class and Edge, but that’s another story.)

 

Celebrity is quite inconsistent with access, I have found. On Reflection, they created the most fully-accessible women’s bathroom I have ever seen, located on deck 5  near Michael’s Club and across from the Ensemble Lounge, if I remember correctly.

 

But chengkp75 pointed out the key fact above - foreign flag ships that sail in US waters aren’t required legally to have fully-accessible ships.

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, chemmo said:

 

We cruised the Eclipse (twice) when I was (temporarily) fairly immobile and using a chair and crutches. The S class was perfect ....The ‘ducking stool’ as my husband described it into the Solarium pool was wonderful as was the jacuzzi nearby. No issues getting anywhere in the ship I wanted to go to....We didn’t attempt the helipad although as that is a working rather than a guest area I would not expect it to be made accessible. 

 

I must confess, it wasn’t until I found myself on crutches and using a chair that I appreciated the ‘mountain’ one small step represented. 

 

Although I am now back on two feet I still appreciate flat floors! With the increasing numbers of guests who can walk, but not far, who are becoming regular scooters owners and users I would have thought newer ships would be more accessible than older ones....only goes to show how wrong you can be.

 

 

Yes, it is surprising and disappointing that a new ship like the Edge would not have at least fully accessible public spaces (I know almost all ships don't have lifts on every pool or hot tub), but since it is not completely required, I guess Celebrity has made a decision to not be as accessible as possible.

[kearney]

For those with bad knees... like my husband. If you get a cabin with a chaise lounge instead of a sofa... The seat height is 15" which is quite low. We brought along 3" bed risers.. this raised the lounge to an acceptable 18" allowing DH to have more than one place to sit in the cabin. I found the regular elevators to be good... better than most ships... I thought the main public area hallways were also nice and wide. We deliberately got to the martini bar early, so we could sit along the rail on deck 3. I noticed that there was a ramp to the middle section... but we avoided it because it looked narrow and thought we would get up there and then have to ask people to move to get back down. We only went to Eden once... chairs were impractical for someone with bad knees.. DH stayed in his scooter...less than ideal.  Halfway through the trip the battery charge was low (the charger was defective)... so Celebrity loaned us a wheel chair. I noticed that there seem to be more carpeted areas in the public spaces than I had noticed before... when you are pushing someone going from tile to carpet... best to approach the threshold on a diagonal or risk tossing passenger onto the ground... as I almost did. There was good parking for scooters outside the restaurants... DH could walk to the table so... space in the dinning room for scooter was not something we noticed good or bad. If I were to sail her again and we used a scooter... I would stick to cabins near aft elevator.... a real pain otherwise to go from front of ship to deck 3 martini bar... either need multiple elevator rides or hallway driving... To me that is like going through the kitchen of a restaurant to get to the seating area. We were able to get the scooter into our IV cabin... with bed by window... not sure it would fit in the other configuration. This was only the second time we used a scooter... the first was on Harmony of the Seas which was such a large ship...we felt he really needed it.. and it worked so well we decided to try it again on Edge. So we are new to accessible cruising and I have to say that I was a bit surprised that things like the Eden elevator was designed without considering functionality... seemed like an after thought. Hopefully there is a way to address this in later ships.

[cruisestitch]

Such an odd decision on Celebrity’s part.  Instead of making the choice to be able to advertise “best cruise ship for ALL travelers including the mobility impaired”, instead of leading the way with innovative and accessible design, they chose instead to take some big steps backward in this area.  

 

 

[Id rather be diving]

This is so disappointing to me.  We sailed on the Silhouette and were pretty pleased.  But sailed on the Constellation and it was terrible which I attributed to being an older ship.  Was expecting the Edge to be so handicap friendly.  Guess we’ll be sticking to Princess.

[cruisestitch]

 

 

If you want to sail Celebrity, just stick to the S Class ships.

Edited February 6, 2019 by cruisestitch

[Alakegirl]

Further report today, not about scooters but just that one child aboard was frightened by the dark hallway leading to Edge and wouldn’t walk through it, turned around and ran away and knocked someone over.  Nearly knocked my niece down in her panic.  Child’s mother chased after her, while the father helped the other person up, so apologetic.  Seems like a very scary place.

[montgomeryfamily]

Thank you, Cruisestitch, for finding and posting the photos of the pool and hot tub area in the suite retreat on the Edge.  I have looked through numerous photos myself, but none showed the complete pool area and complete hot tub area, so I could not be certain whether or not a pool lift was present in the areas not shown.  The photos you posted show that neither the suite retreat pool or the suite retreat hot tub have a lift.

 

I am very disappointed in Celebrity as it is apparent that they put more thought in the color scheme and selection of furniture in the suite retreat area than insuring that the amenities in the area can be enjoyed by all of the suite guests, including those guests in the wheelchair accessible suites.  Pool and hot tub lifts do not require any significant structural alterations.  There are cruise ship lifts which can be installed after the construction which take into account the design elements of cruise ship pools and hot tubs--Royal Caribbean has installed such lifts on the Royal Caribbean Oasis class of ships.   So Celebrity should install those on the Edge and the new ships to come as well as on all of the ships which are modified to install suite retreat areas with hot tubs/pools. 

 

I plan to contact Celebrity about this issue and urge others to do so too.   I am debating exactly to whom at Celebrity I should raise this concern--the President or someone else?  Any suggestions?   Also perhaps post on facebook?

[Sam.Seattle]

I have noticed that there a no pools on the Edge that allows walk in access.  My wife is unable to use the ladders... I guess we won't be on the Edge.  The Harmony of the Seas also has no pools with walk in access.  We learned this the hard way...

[Caribbean Chris]

10 hours ago, Alakegirl said:

Further report today, not about scooters but just that one child aboard was frightened by the dark hallway leading to Edge and wouldn’t walk through it, turned around and ran away and knocked someone over.  Nearly knocked my niece down in her panic.  Child’s mother chased after her, while the father helped the other person up, so apologetic.  Seems like a very scary place.

 

The always-dark, spooky “forest” to reach Eden could be disorienting, almost a fun-house effect with weird music at times, so I can see why a child would be frightened. Not a good place for anyone prone to dizziness or vertigo. My service dog led me through with her usual aplomb, but I didn’t particularly enjoy having to always walk through it for breakfast and dinner at Blu. (No other interior access.)

[chemmo]

6 hours ago, Sam.Seattle said:

I have noticed that there a no pools on the Edge that allows walk in access.  My wife is unable to use the ladders... I guess we won't be on the Edge.  The Harmony of the Seas also has no pools with walk in access.  We learned this the hard way...

 

Lots of people by 60 have a bad knee, shoulder or something else....Whilst they would not describe themselves as disabled they use the lifts, look for comfortable chairs, avoid queues and when they want a swim they go for the pool with steps!

 

I can just about manage a ladder when we have stayed in hotels with no options but I do feel a little unsafe doing so. My better half is always right next to me ‘just in case’. If lots of guests with similar issues ‘risk’ the ladders as there is no alternative option there could be an increase in accidents.

 

Much as the retreat pool looks lovely it looks like a slippery walk to the ladder for anyone who again may not see themselves as disabled but knows their balance isn’t as good as it used to be.

[cgolf1]

22 hours ago, Caribbean Chris said:

I was interested in accessibility on Edge, too, because I travel with a service dog, and many of my fellow handlers use a chair, scooter, walker, or cane - while managing a dog alongside. Everybody in that situation simply wants to be able to take the dog to the relief station several times a day without help but it’s rarely possible.

 

Along with areas PatC and others mentioned, there’s a challenge at the double paired glass doors on Deck 5 forward - between the Edge theater area and the outside (the route to the service dog relief box location). Only the exterior pair is automatic if you push a lighted button at the center of the doors -  the interior pair has a press-bar and push action needed to open. It is an improvement over the extremely heavy wooden doors on some ships, but a regression from two sets of fully-automatic doors on Solstice Class. (Getting from the exterior deck to the box itself is also inaccessible with a chair on Solstice Class and Edge, but that’s another story.)

 

Celebrity is quite inconsistent with access, I have found. On Reflection, they created the most fully-accessible women’s bathroom I have ever seen, located on deck 5  near Michael’s Club and across from the Ensemble Lounge, if I remember correctly.

 

But chengkp75 pointed out the key fact above - foreign flag ships that sail in US waters aren’t required legally to have fully-accessible ships.

 

Actually those doors are not an improvement and still super dangerous. My wife was walking out ahead of me and the outer door opened, we didn’t know it was windy, just as I was coming through the inner door. It slammed shut so hard that the plastic covers on the closing mechanism fell off and I have no clue how the glass didn’t shatter, it sounded like a gunshot when it closed. Thankfully nobody was walking behind me at the time or I wasn’t further behind her. Only the sliding double doors should be used on cruise ships. 

[cgolf1]

On 2/6/2019 at 5:39 AM, hcat said:

Re EDGE

Definitely saw a lift at Solarium hot tub..pretty sure there was one for the  Solarium pool but can't say 100%...the Thermal suite area looked okay..flat surfaces.

 

The forest of wierd trees on way to and from  BLU and EDEN  is a disaster for anyone to negotiate, let alone a scooter..It is dark by design with flashy lights and the pathway other than direct center tiles varies. Not enchanting at all...

 

Stairs down and up at Martini bar were thoughtless,  as are the ridiculous  hobbit height chairs without arms  in EDEN and many other areas of the ship

Watching folks get in and out was not very funny..designers made a big miss on seating!

 

 

 

I just looked at my pictures and didn’t see one for the solarium pool. 

 

I loved the funhouse hallway, but walked through it, so not sure how one with a scooter could get through.

 

I do have a review going, and would be grateful if you added some commentary to it. We had an overall positive experience with most things, would love to here your thoughts:)