Judge threatens to stop Carnival ships from docking In US

[Dani24]

9 minutes ago, Coral said:

Can you upgrade to the Platinum coverage? That does 100% in future cruise credit for cancelling for any reason. If you are past final payment, you can't.

 

It looks like we already have the highest level plan (iTravelInsured LX). 😞

[pms4104]

I would guess that the Federal judge could ban CCL ships from selective ports ... and that likely would override the NPS permit process

Edited April 11, 2019 by pms4104

[Coral]

1 minute ago, Dani24 said:

 

It looks like we already have the highest level plan (iTravelInsured LX). 😞

Sorry - I thought it was Princess's plan. I am guessing your trip will not be affected. Or at least hoping for you. I can't see a judge doing this. It would disrupt the economy too much.

[Dani24]

22 minutes ago, MFR said:

Rather than thinking about how this may affect our own cruise plans, we should be thinking about whether we want to continue to give our money to a corporation that has su total disregard for the health of the world's oceans.   Who is willing to boycott CCL until they clean up their act?  

 

I don't disagree at all. If Carnival/Princess doesn't appropriately address this it absolutely is something that would compel me to spend my vacation dollars elsewhere. That doesn't change the fact that I still have money currently tied up with them for a vacation in 3 months. I can be both concerned about losing out on nearly $10k/losing out on our vacation AND the long term ramifications of Carnival/Princess's actions outside of our trip. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Edited April 11, 2019 by Dani24

[Dani24]

2 minutes ago, Coral said:

Sorry - I thought it was Princess's plan. I am guessing your trip will not be affected. Or at least hoping for you. I can't see a judge doing this. It would disrupt the economy too much.

 

I could see a judge doing this, unfortunately. The impact on the overall economy likely wouldn't be that large. But my HOPE is that the executives at Carnival would recognize the impact to THEIR bottom line if they don't address this properly, leading a judge to take this action. It is not heartening to see how they haven't yet taken this seriously enough.

[pms4104]

Isn't Glacier Bay a scenic cruusing day with no docking?

 

I would be thinking more in terms of the rest of Alaska or Hawaii, American ports all.

 

I do wonder how this will shakeout ...  a small fins and wrist slap or  a more meanngful consequence

Edited April 11, 2019 by pms4104

[Coral]

Honestly - if he stops ships from stopping in Alaska, this will greatly affect the economy there as they need the 4 months of ships for their economy. 

 

I agree a judge would over ride a permit. My point was that National Parks knew of the dumping when they issued new permits. The new permits don't start until 2020.

[Coral]

2 minutes ago, Dani24 said:

 

I could see a judge doing this, unfortunately. The impact on the overall economy likely wouldn't be that large. But my HOPE is that the executives at Carnival would recognize the impact to THEIR bottom line if they don't address this properly, leading a judge to take this action. It is not heartening to see how they haven't yet taken this seriously enough.

It would be huge to the economy in those Alaskan ports. I just brought up a day in Juneau and there are 5 ships there. Just taking 2500 passengers on average (not counting crew who get off and shop also) that is 12,500 visiting on June 12th. Other days are similar.

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, Coral said:

Honestly - if he stops ships from stopping in Alaska, this will greatly affect the economy there as they need the 4 months of ships for their economy. 

 

I agree a judge would over ride a permit. My point was that National Parks knew of the dumping when they issued new permits. The new permits don't start until 2020.

was this just a 'rubber-stamp' approval then ? - were any new lines added or dropped ?

[pms4104]

2 minutes ago, Coral said:

It would be huge to the economy in those Alaskan ports. I just brought up a day in Juneau and there are 5 ships there. Just taking 2500 passengers on average (not counting crew who get off and shop also) that is 12,500 visiting on June 12th. Other days are similar.

So perhaps the judge can fine CCL by banning their ships AND having the corp pay the ports an amount equal to their lost revenue?

[Alaskanb]

42 minutes ago, Coral said:

Glacier Bay (National Park Service) recently awarded new permits for the next 10 years and did grant them to Princess. So they knew of this situation (illegal dumping) when they were granted.

 

https://www.nps.gov/glba/learn/news/glacier-bay-issues-new-contracts-for-cruise-ship-services.htm  

In the article it states that the Holland America Westerdam was responsible for the dumping in Glacier Bay. 

[pms4104]

Funny, all the talk here is about Glacier Bay ... what about dumping plastics, polluting Bahamian waters, violating the court-ordered probation.  Oh and this isn't solely about Princess.  Surprised to not see Ms Swarz's name among those invited to the June hearing

[Cruise Junky]

32 minutes ago, voljeep said:

was this just a 'rubber-stamp' approval then ? - were any new lines added or dropped ?

RCL was added. 

[Coral]

12 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

RCL was added. 

I think Viking was also added.

[Cruise Junky]

8 minutes ago, Coral said:

I think Viking was also added.

I thought so too but wasn't sure about that one.

[lx200gps]

I understood from the article, perhaps incorrectly, that the judge is threatening to bar all CCL ships from docking anywhere in the US, it doesn't appear to single out Alaska. That would mean no New York, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, etc......  I have to admit I find it hard to believe that a judge would issue such a ruling, however justified, that would result in thousands. if not tens of thousands, of temporary layoffs when the cruise line can be properly punished in other ways. Ship crew and port personnel, supplier/vendor personnel, local hotels etc, would all be adversely affected, not to mention the massive disruption that would result to passenger travel plans for those who can't get money for prepaid travel expenses. 

[sfaaa]

The dollar is always mightier than a lowly federal judge who tries to play God.

[pms4104]

2 minutes ago, lx200gps said:

I understood from the article, perhaps incorrectly, that the judge is threatening to bar all CCL ships from docking anywhere in the US, it doesn't appear to single out Alaska. That would mean no New York, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, etc......  I have to admit I find it hard to believe that a judge would issue such a ruling, however justified, that would result in thousands. if not tens of thousands, of temporary layoffs when the cruise line can be properly punished in other ways. Ship crew and port personnel, supplier/vendor personnel, local hotels etc, would all be adversely affected, not to mention the massive disruption that would result to passenger travel plans for those who can't get money for prepaid travel expenses. 

Yes  hou read correctly.

 

I believe the judge has made an idle threat

 

But, the fact remains that CCL and its subsidiaries must pay some significant price for thumbing their collective noses at moral and etbical behaviir, sdttling for that which is easy and illegal

 

You're right that tbe impact of such a ruling would be catastrophic for a lot of innocrnts.  

 

What should be the punishmrnt and restitution?  I haven't a clue but it must be such that there be an immediate reversal of corp behaviors

[DavyJoneses]

5 hours ago, voljeep said:

not that any dumping is good, but why choose Glacier Bay ? - Isn't that restricted to only a few lines ?

 

 

What a place to dump. They deserve what they get.

[lx200gps]

55 minutes ago, pms4104 said:

Yes  hou read correctly.

 

I believe the judge has made an idle threat

 

But, the fact remains that CCL and its subsidiaries must pay some significant price for thumbing their collective noses at moral and etbical behaviir, sdttling for that which is easy and illegal

 

You're right that tbe impact of such a ruling would be catastrophic for a lot of innocrnts.  

 

What should be the punishmrnt and restitution?  I haven't a clue but it must be such that there be an immediate reversal of corp behaviors

No arguments here. If they did engage in the specified activities in contravention of court rulings, then they deserve a full and swift punishment. Let's just hope the courts don't wrap up the innocents in the punishments.

[Woobstr112G]

http://fortune.com/2019/04/11/carnival-cruise-barred-us-ports/

 

Interesting article regarding the 40 million $$$ settlement for Princess Ships (in the past) dumping oil into the sea. Carnival Corporation was on probation for the past two years for the ships doing so.  Aparently CC has ticked off a federal judge overseaing things and has threatened to ban Carnival ships from docking in the U.S.....

 

Bob

[lx200gps]

Big two page thread already running on this.....

[Woobstr112G]

1 minute ago, lx200gps said:

Big two page thread already running on this.....

Pardon me for not seeing it.....🙄

 

Bob

[Ep010835]

Everyone has a position on this. Here's mine.

When the entire matter is framed as Federal judge threatens to temporarily block Carnival ships from docking at U.S. ports, my eyes go directly to the word threatens. Used frequently throughout the article. 

 

I see this as the judge making the stakeholders abundantly clear of her seriousness on the matter. Kind of a, "Now that I have your complete and undivided attention" statement.

 

The outcome will likely fall well short of the threat. 

[Host CJSKIDS]

Bob, I'm going to include you link over into the other thread to keep it in one place.