News -HA may be banned from accessing US ports

[Sir PMP]

1 hour ago, Hawaiidan said:

very well might.....Venice has or is doing it... Disneyland and World are doing it ( insome cases disney  visitors now have to  have a park reservation... they can not just  show up and buy a ticket    Face it  the cruise  industry has grown  at an alarming pace since 1980....  ships used to be 500 to 800.   with newer ships that are floating cities of 3000 to 5000 they are overwhelming many ports.   When I lived in Kona,  when  more than 2 ships were in port the out-numbered the residents....      Capacity control has been used by airlines , hotels and cruises to manage travelers.       Now, it maybe that the ports are turning to  "capacity" control"    The result will be lines cutting deals with ports to get special treatment...  Fares will rise if you want to visit some ports that only a few " favored  ships are allowed in'        In Hawaii a $enator used to get $ent lo$t luggage from cruise$.... filled with green $tuff on a regular bais$...     Funny how that works?

Supply and demand will set the stage for new demand pricing........ hang on

Well said...

[Aquahound]

On 4/11/2019 at 7:02 PM, chengkp75 said:

 

...what is far more disturbing to me is the total lack of consideration or responsibility at the corporate level towards environmental issues. 

 

How do you think I'm feeling right now?  Sheesh.  All I can do is shake my head at this corporation.  Strike that.  It's not "all" I can do.  😉

[*Miss G*]

35 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

How do you think I'm feeling right now?  Sheesh.  All I can do is shake my head at this corporation.  Strike that.  It's not "all" I can do.  😉

 

So I take it you’re pretty busy at the moment?  😛

[HappyInVan]

23 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Unfortunately, the media reports provide very little detail. If Carnival was preparing ships in advance of audits with temporary fixes that would be reversed post audit, for example, the criticism is warranted. 

 

As for your second point, while Carnival claimed that they were only seeking clarification of the definition, the article states that "Holland America Group’s senior vice president for safety, environmental & management services, emailed his former colleagues at the Coast Guard seeking support for Carnival’s definition, according to federal prosecutors." Again, there is insufficient detail to determine solely on the basis of the media reporting whether this was an innocent attempt by Carnival to simply clarify the definition, or really an attempt to influence the interpretation of the definition in a manner more favourable to them.

 

Lacking far greater detail, I think it's a bit premature to call these parts of the ruling absurd. Given everything else in the case, I for one am not inclined to give Carnival the benefit of the doubt.

 

+1 

 

The judge has the benefit of the presentation by the prosecutor. Strong comments by the judge suggest that she was outraged by the details of the transgressions. HAL's legal representatives don't seem to have mounted an adequate defense. So.....

[Jeafl]

On 4/11/2019 at 1:34 PM, jhannah said:

An equally grave problem for many of us could be the devaluation of CCL stock! That could come sooner rather than later. I really hate that Westerdam has been implicated specifically.

Me too, since we are sailing on the Westerdam in 3 months.

[Hawaiidan]

2 hours ago, Jeafl said:

Me too, since we are sailing on the Westerdam in 3 months.

The decision is  said to be issued in June.2019  in Miami.      They  may be given 90 days to comply with exclusion....OR certain ships may be banned for life.     Or  Princess HAL and Carnival lines will be banned and the Cunard Seabourn and Aida will be exempt.       Many possibilities    from  ALL  PART      from  a year to forever duration.    

My crystal ball is in the shop..... sorry I can not nail it down more

[voyageur9]

Maybe this tidbit will get Orlando Ashford's attention:

 

A judge with a sense of humor would put Ashford behind bars for the duration of a World Cruise, along with the Westerdam's captain and the moron who falsified the paperwork.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-winterkorn/german-prosecutors-charge-former-vw-ceo-winterkorn-with-fraud-idUSKCN1RR11O

[Hawaiidan]

4 minutes ago, voyageur9 said:

Maybe this tidbit will get Orlando Ashford's attention:

 

A judge with a sense of humor would put Ashford behind bars for the duration of a World Cruise, along with the Westerdam's captain and the moron who falsified the paperwork.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-winterkorn/german-prosecutors-charge-former-vw-ceo-winterkorn-with-fraud-idUSKCN1RR11O

If I understand you correctly...your saying being on a World cruise on HAL   is the equivalent   of being in prison ?

I would tend to agree   that being on anything for 180 days is  punishment 

[voyageur9]

8 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

If I understand you correctly...your saying being on a World cruise on HAL   is the equivalent   of being in prison ?

I would tend to agree   that being on anything for 180 days is  punishment 

That's even funnier. Perhaps all three could be required to share an inside cabin/cell and process each other's grey wastewater.

[Sir PMP]

34 minutes ago, voyageur9 said:

Maybe this tidbit will get Orlando Ashford's attention:

 

A judge with a sense of humor would put Ashford behind bars for the duration of a World Cruise, along with the Westerdam's captain and the moron who falsified the paperwork.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-winterkorn/german-prosecutors-charge-former-vw-ceo-winterkorn-with-fraud-idUSKCN1RR11O

They should keep him in the engine room without earplugs..

[1ANGELCAT]

Tomorrow is the annual meeting .

According to the annual report an audio copy will be available shortly afterward at Carnivalcorp. com.

I wish I was there.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, 1ANGELCAT said:

I wish I was there.

 

Me too!  If this Annual Meeting was in the US, I think I would have made an effort to attend.  I did once several years ago when it was held at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables.  Very interesting to put faces and voices with the names.  Most attendees were financial analysts types, but there were a few of us individual investors in attendance; we were made to feel most welcome by the Officers, a member of the Board of Directors, and the staff whom I met.  An excellent continental breakfast was served prior to the start of the meeting.   A member of the Board was in attendance and circulated among us individual investors.  I appreciated realizing that one does not need to have millions invested in the Company in order to be appreciated.

[3rdGenCunarder]

There could be jail time for someone.

 

I just read this morning that an Italian shipping company is being fined $4 million for dumping "oily waste." This was in Newark Federal Court, and  $1 million is earmarked for environmental conservation projects around Newark Bay. The article didn't say where the dumping occurred, but I think the dumping was in Newark Bay, as the article didn't mention money going to other ports.  

 

The incident (s?) took place between 2014 and 2016, but the fine was only assessed now. But in 2016, the Chief Engineer was fined $5000 and sentenced to 8 months for falsifying and then burning records related to the dumping. So don't lie to the Feds!

 

[bateau4]

Does anyone know what happens If a HAL cruise is cancelled based on the judge's ruling in June?  We have one booked for July and need to pay in full shortly.

 

Would HAL refund the cost of the cruise or expect people to use their travel insurance?  Would the insurance be valid if this was a known risk at the time of final payment?

 

When our TA called HAL just now the rep didn't know anything about this pending case, said we'd get a refund but wouldn't put it in writing. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

[CruiserBruce]

24 minutes ago, bateau4 said:

Does anyone know what happens If a HAL cruise is cancelled based on the judge's ruling in June?  We have one booked for July and need to pay in full shortly.

 

Would HAL refund the cost of the cruise or expect people to use their travel insurance?  Would the insurance be valid if this was a known risk at the time of final payment?

 

When our TA called HAL just now the rep didn't know anything about this pending case, said we'd get a refund but wouldn't put it in writing. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

If the worst case scenario happens, which EXTREMELY unlikely,  HAL will refund your money.

[3rdGenCunarder]

25 minutes ago, bateau4 said:

Does anyone know what happens If a HAL cruise is cancelled based on the judge's ruling in June?  We have one booked for July and need to pay in full shortly.

 

Would HAL refund the cost of the cruise or expect people to use their travel insurance?  Would the insurance be valid if this was a known risk at the time of final payment?

 

When our TA called HAL just now the rep didn't know anything about this pending case, said we'd get a refund but wouldn't put it in writing. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

I think HAL would have to refund your money. It's possible that the court decision could stipulate that. I would check with your insurance about the risk. I looked at Travelguard the other day and HAL wasn't on their risk list. But that could change.

[Copper10-8]

1 hour ago, bateau4 said:

Does anyone know what happens If a HAL cruise is cancelled based on the judge's ruling in June?  We have one booked for July and need to pay in full shortly.

 

Would HAL refund the cost of the cruise or expect people to use their travel insurance?  Would the insurance be valid if this was a known risk at the time of final payment?

 

When our TA called HAL just now the rep didn't know anything about this pending case, said we'd get a refund but wouldn't put it in writing. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

 

Yeah; you're going to get your money back however, there is not going to be a ban for reasons previously explained

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, bateau4 said:

Does anyone know what happens If a HAL cruise is cancelled based on the judge's ruling in June?  We have one booked for July and need to pay in full shortly.

 

Would HAL refund the cost of the cruise or expect people to use their travel insurance?  Would the insurance be valid if this was a known risk at the time of final payment?

 

When our TA called HAL just now the rep didn't know anything about this pending case, said we'd get a refund but wouldn't put it in writing. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I see this got merged into the original,  main thread. Great idea. No need to start YET ANOTHER thread on the topic. 

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Yeah; you're going to get your money back however, there is not going to be a ban for reasons previously explained

While I agree that there will not be a fleetwide ban, I think it highly likely that at least some of the more repetitive violating ships, will be banned for a year or so.  The judge and DOJ are looking to make this hurt Carnival, since they took no notice of the previous settlement.

[rafinmd]

7 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

I see this got merged into the original,  main thread. Great idea. No need to start YET ANOTHER thread on the topic. 

But we have yet another thread.  Amazing how people can ignore multiple threads and start another anyway.

 

Roy

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While I agree that there will not be a fleetwide ban, I think it highly likely that at least some of the more repetitive violating ships, will be banned for a year or so.  The judge and DOJ are looking to make this hurt Carnival, since they took no notice of the previous settlement.

 

That certainly is a possibility. Threatening the fleetwide ban does two things. First, if (when?) a few ships are banned, the judge can point out that she COULD HAVE made it worse, so shut up and take your punishment. (I'm sure she'll say it in a nice way, I'm imagining what Judge Judy would say)  Second, making such a huge threat gets publicity. Lots of companies are fined for a variety of things and it doesn't always make the news. The expression "there's no such thing as bad publicity" does not apply in a case like this. 

[RoyalVisit]

Hi all,

 

I asked HAL about this...received this response:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line. 

 

We apologize that an unexpected increase in email inquiries resulted in a delayed response time.

 

We certainly understand and appreciate your concerns.

 

Please know that we take our environmental obligations very seriously and our commitment to doing the right thing is a top priority in the company.  Without pristine oceans and beautiful destinations that our guests want to visit, we would not have a viable business for the future.

 

We make significant investments in our people, in our training, in our systems and on our ships – spending nearly a billion dollars across Carnival Corporation over the last three years on environmental initiatives. We know there is more to do and we are dedicated to continuing to improve our fleet operations, ensure regulatory compliance and to be best-in-class with respect to environmental responsibility. We have done these things not just to meet requirements, but because all of us deeply care about the world we live in and the more than 700 places we visit.  And we will continue to do more.

 

Regarding the recent media coverage, it is important to know our cruise lines self-reported any possible issue on every ship in the fleet over the course of the past year. There were some incidents identified, but being transparent in the process is an important part of our larger efforts that are driving improvements throughout our fleet. Carnival Corporation and its nine world’s leading cruise line brands continue to keep Environmental Compliance and Sustainability a top priority for all our brands and every employee.

 

If you’d like to learn more about Carnival Corporation’s environmental efforts, you can read the most recent Sustainability Report at www.carnivalcorp.com.

 

As a valued guest, we sincerely appreciate the trust you place in us, and we look forward to serving you and your family with great cruise vacations for many years to come.

 

 

Thank you for contacting Holland America Line. Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance or visit us online.   We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

[slidergirl]

3 minutes ago, RoyalVisit said:

Hi all,

 

I asked HAL about this...received this response:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line. 

 

We apologize that an unexpected increase in email inquiries resulted in a delayed response time.

 

We certainly understand and appreciate your concerns.

 

Please know that we take our environmental obligations very seriously and our commitment to doing the right thing is a top priority in the company.  Without pristine oceans and beautiful destinations that our guests want to visit, we would not have a viable business for the future.

 

We make significant investments in our people, in our training, in our systems and on our ships – spending nearly a billion dollars across Carnival Corporation over the last three years on environmental initiatives. We know there is more to do and we are dedicated to continuing to improve our fleet operations, ensure regulatory compliance and to be best-in-class with respect to environmental responsibility. We have done these things not just to meet requirements, but because all of us deeply care about the world we live in and the more than 700 places we visit.  And we will continue to do more.

 

Regarding the recent media coverage, it is important to know our cruise lines self-reported any possible issue on every ship in the fleet over the course of the past year. There were some incidents identified, but being transparent in the process is an important part of our larger efforts that are driving improvements throughout our fleet. Carnival Corporation and its nine world’s leading cruise line brands continue to keep Environmental Compliance and Sustainability a top priority for all our brands and every employee.

 

If you’d like to learn more about Carnival Corporation’s environmental efforts, you can read the most recent Sustainability Report at www.carnivalcorp.com.

 

As a valued guest, we sincerely appreciate the trust you place in us, and we look forward to serving you and your family with great cruise vacations for many years to come.

 

 

Thank you for contacting Holland America Line. Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance or visit us online.   We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

Just another canned non-response.  Why did they not acknowledge their fault which is part of the court case?  Saying what they did in the past year doesn't matter.  Dodged the issue of the lawsuit.

[ontheweb]

38 minutes ago, RoyalVisit said:

Hi all,

 

I asked HAL about this...received this response:

 

Thank you for your recent correspondence with Holland America Line. 

 

We apologize that an unexpected increase in email inquiries resulted in a delayed response time.

 

We certainly understand and appreciate your concerns.

 

Please know that we take our environmental obligations very seriously and our commitment to doing the right thing is a top priority in the company.  Without pristine oceans and beautiful destinations that our guests want to visit, we would not have a viable business for the future.

 

We make significant investments in our people, in our training, in our systems and on our ships – spending nearly a billion dollars across Carnival Corporation over the last three years on environmental initiatives. We know there is more to do and we are dedicated to continuing to improve our fleet operations, ensure regulatory compliance and to be best-in-class with respect to environmental responsibility. We have done these things not just to meet requirements, but because all of us deeply care about the world we live in and the more than 700 places we visit.  And we will continue to do more.

 

Regarding the recent media coverage, it is important to know our cruise lines self-reported any possible issue on every ship in the fleet over the course of the past year. There were some incidents identified, but being transparent in the process is an important part of our larger efforts that are driving improvements throughout our fleet. Carnival Corporation and its nine world’s leading cruise line brands continue to keep Environmental Compliance and Sustainability a top priority for all our brands and every employee.

 

If you’d like to learn more about Carnival Corporation’s environmental efforts, you can read the most recent Sustainability Report at www.carnivalcorp.com.

 

As a valued guest, we sincerely appreciate the trust you place in us, and we look forward to serving you and your family with great cruise vacations for many years to come.

 

 

Thank you for contacting Holland America Line. Please feel free to contact us if we may be of additional assistance or visit us online.   We look forward to welcoming you onboard in the near future!

Wow, that response from HAL was truly a lot of words while saying absolutely nothing!

[Copper10-8]

6 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Wow, that response from HAL was truly a lot of words while saying absolutely nothing!

 

Did you expect something else? There's lawyers involved plus a pending ruling by a judge