Real ID

[clo]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

t's an interesting thought

"Ignorance of the law excuses not."

[Hlitner]

On 9/30/2019 at 8:22 PM, clo said:

I don't know the answer to this.  When one's driver's license is renewed is it required that one get a Real ID?

It depends on your own State's regulations.  

 

Hank

[sparks1093]

15 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I haven't read this thread in depth so pardons if this has already been asked/answered....  If you will need a real ID to enter a Federal courthouse, what happens if you are summoned for jury duty and don't have one?

 

(Having just served on a Federal jury for 10 days, I'm pretty sure our Federal courthouse would be one of the types of Federal buildings impacted?)

 

That's an interesting question and one that I haven't even considered (makes me wonder if the powers that be have). Maybe they will have a procedure put in place to clear those in that situation.

[sparks1093]

12 hours ago, clo said:

"Ignorance of the law excuses not."

There's no ignorance of the law, one has the legitimate option of not obtaining a REAL ID compliant license. I'm sure when it comes to jury duty they will put some sort of procedure into place to cover those situations (and they do have limited access to the DMV records so maybe they'll just call those with REAL ID compliant licenses).

Edited October 7, 2019 by sparks1093

[clo]

3 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

There's no ignorance of the law,

My point was that I'd assume most people wouldn't inconvenience themselves by showing up somewhere knowing in advance that they won't be 'admitted.' So IMO they would be ignorant of the law.

[sparks1093]

1 hour ago, clo said:

My point was that I'd assume most people wouldn't inconvenience themselves by showing up somewhere knowing in advance that they won't be 'admitted.' So IMO they would be ignorant of the law.

Ok, now I see what you were saying. That presumes of course that they are aware of things enough to know that they don't have the ID necessary to enter (which may be covered in the jury duty notice).

[sparks1093]

On 10/1/2019 at 6:49 AM, sparks1093 said:

I know Vermont has offered an option to not have a REAL ID compliant license issued but not sure if it's still offered. I have to take DW to DMV Friday to renew her EDL and I'll see if they still offer it.

I didn't get DW to DMV until today. According to the person working on the license renewal it is an option to receive a non-compliant license and to the best of her knowledge that will be a permanent thing.

[clo]

19 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

(which may be covered in the jury duty notice).

Good point.  I bet it will be.

[CPT Trips]

On October 5, 2019 at 1:14 PM, Donray said:

Will these people then want a refund from the airline when TSA does not let them in? 

 

Right now TSA has procedures to process people that do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly. I have not seen anything that indicates these procedures will not be used once the date for REAL ID hits.

 

 

[clo]

3 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Right now TSA has procedures to process people that do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly. I have not seen anything that indicates these procedures will not be used once the date for REAL ID hits.

 

 

I didn't know that.  Do you know what some are?

[CPT Trips]

TSA asserts that their procedures and practices are SSI, sensitive security information. You really don't want me to disclose them on a non secure message board do you?

[navybankerteacher]

28 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Right now TSA has procedures to process people that do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly. I have not seen anything that indicates these procedures will not be used once the date for REAL ID hits.

 

 

Makes you wonder:  how many extra TSA personnel must there be to “...process people who do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly.”?  Sounds pretty inefficient - and diverting staff from routine processing penalizes the compliant people.

 

Why have a requirement if you do not require it?

 

A bit of publicity about a few people missing their flights is likely to make people aware of requirements - which are actually required — and would expedite the process for those responsible/aware enough to be in compliance.

[clo]

2 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

A bit of publicity about a few people missing their flights is likely to make people aware of requirements - which are actually required — and would expedite the process for those responsible/aware enough to be in compliance.

THIS^^^^^

[ldubs]

21 minutes ago, CPT Trips said:

TSA asserts that their procedures and practices are SSI, sensitive security information. You really don't want me to disclose them on a non secure message board do you?

 

I do.  I find it incredible that someone without a valid ID would be allowed to board a flight.  I know I'm missing something.  

[clo]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I do.  I find it incredible that someone without a valid ID would be allowed to board a flight.  I know I'm missing something.  

Er, you must have missed this evening's news.  There was a Delta flight where someone boarded the airplane with no ID and no boarding pass.  So both TSA and Delta flunked 😞

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, clo said:

Er, you must have missed this evening's news.  There was a Delta flight where someone boarded the airplane with no ID and no boarding pass.  So both TSA and Delta flunked 😞

 

So TSA checked him/her through knowing they didn't have a valid ID or a boarding pass?  

 

And I agree.  They did flunk.  

 

 

Edited October 8, 2019 by ldubs
oops

[clo]

6 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

So TSA checked him/her through knowing they didn't have a valid ID or a boarding pass?  

 

And I agree.  They did flunk.  

 

 

Yep.  And then Delta boarded her with no boarding pass.  They didn't say how they found her out and what the 'rest of the story' was.  Sigh.

[new_cruiser]

1 hour ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Right now TSA has procedures to process people that do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly. I have not seen anything that indicates these procedures will not be used once the date for REAL ID hits.

 

 

 

I've never gone through them personally, but from what others have experienced, the alternative procedures are very time consuming. There has to be some way for a person to board if, for example, they are away from home and their wallet gets stolen so they have no ID, but in that case, the person can realize that they need to show up to the airport early for an extended procedure. 

 

If someone showed up without a RealID or passport because they didn't know that the old type of driver's license wasn't going to cut it anymore, they probably wouldn't have enough time to make their flight with the alternative process. From people who have been through it, I've heard it can take like an hour (off in a side interview room, not in the regular line). It can involve the kind of questions where some service supplies facts about you and you have to supply the answers (similar to verifying who you are for some kinds of on-line services). Basically, they go through alternative ways of verifying that you are who you say you are. 

 

It isn't something that any one with any sense would do just for the heck of it. 

 

Edited to add, I don't know if they'd even allow the alternative procedure to be used for someone who didn't bring the right ID because they hadn't gotten the right kind of license. That's not the same as the hardship reason of being away from home and having a lost/stolen ID.

Edited October 8, 2019 by new_cruiser

[new_cruiser]

52 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

So TSA checked him/her through knowing they didn't have a valid ID or a boarding pass?  

 

And I agree.  They did flunk.  

 

 

 

Apparently we don't know that yet. The news report I just read said she didn't have ID or a boarding pass when she was on the plane. We don't know if she had an ID and a boarding pass (or alternative) when she was screened.

 

There are some alternatives to a boarding pass that can get you through TSA. E.g. you are standby on a flight so instead of a boarding pass you have something similar that says you are standby. I've had that when a canceled flight meant that I had to stay overnight someplace and try to get on another flight standby the next day. Parents (or other adults) escorting an "unescorted minor" to the gate so they can start their trip or picking up an unescorted minor at the gate. 

 

And of course all the airport workers who don't have boarding passes get in without one. 

 

I'm surprised that the person got on the plane without a boarding pass. I've boarded a lot of flights, dozens per year, and usually the gate staff is pretty good - you can't walk by them without scanning a boarding pass. I guess anything can happen once. 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, new_cruiser said:

 

Apparently we don't know that yet. The news report I just read said she didn't have ID or a boarding pass when she was on the plane. We don't know if she had an ID and a boarding pass (or alternative) when she was screened.

 

There are some alternatives to a boarding pass that can get you through TSA. E.g. you are standby on a flight so instead of a boarding pass you have something similar that says you are standby. I've had that when a canceled flight meant that I had to stay overnight someplace and try to get on another flight standby the next day. Parents (or other adults) escorting an "unescorted minor" to the gate so they can start their trip or picking up an unescorted minor at the gate. 

 

And of course all the airport workers who don't have boarding passes get in without one. 

 

I'm surprised that the person got on the plane without a boarding pass. I've boarded a lot of flights, dozens per year, and usually the gate staff is pretty good - you can't walk by them without scanning a boarding pass. I guess anything can happen once. 

 

Thanks New Cruiser.  I agree mistakes happen and I can see that too with the boarding pass at the gate. But I sort of questionTSA letting someone through without ID or boarding pass.  Passenger probably lost the doc's after security.  But just a wild guess on my part.  

[slidergirl]

Can you say "full body strip search in a private room" and "full search of all your luggage" and "an hour of interrogation"???  I've got a nice woman who checked into the hotel tonight - she lost her wallet somewhere between the boarding gate and baggage claim.  Delta said she has to go through their online service to fill out a form before they'll look.   She had her husband do screenshots of the front and back of a joint credit card and send them to her so we had a credit card to put on her reservation.  She's going to Venmo (or whatever that is called) a friend at the conference to get some cash.    But, she's going to have major issues when she tries to fly back.  She can show screenshots of stuff, but it's going to be interesting how long it's going to take her to get through TSA on the way back.  I thought of having her DH Fedex her work badge to the hotel so she'd at least have something with her name and face on it to maybe ease the pain.  

 

Back when they started having the "show your ID at security", my now-ex discovered he lost his drivers license on the way back from Arizona.  He used his officials license from a sport we juried on - it had his photo and name on it.  He also had his Costco credit card that had his name on it.  They let him through!!!

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, CPT Trips said:

 

Right now TSA has procedures to process people that do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly. I have not seen anything that indicates these procedures will not be used once the date for REAL ID hits.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, clo said:

I didn't know that.  Do you know what some are?

We just had a friend fly from Vermont to Florida and she had lost her license prior to the flight. She brought a bunch of other stuff with her (about 8 things, including her college student ID). She showed up early but was processed rather quickly.

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Makes you wonder:  how many extra TSA personnel must there be to “...process people who do not have a compliant form of ID and allow them to fly.”?  Sounds pretty inefficient - and diverting staff from routine processing penalizes the compliant people.

 

Why have a requirement if you do not require it?

 

A bit of publicity about a few people missing their flights is likely to make people aware of requirements - which are actually required — and would expedite the process for those responsible/aware enough to be in compliance.

Because sometimes unexpected things happen. IDs get lost or stolen. It's not a perfect world. As I just posted a friend lost her license and was still able to board her plane. Of course things will change next year when a REAL ID compliant license is required and it's currently completely unknown what procedure, if any, will be put in place for the outliers. (And yes, I do recognize the difference between those who don't obtain a compliant ID and those who have one. TSA has the ability to differentiate between the two but I doubt that they have the political will to implement a policy that does differentiate.)

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, sparks1093 said:

Because sometimes unexpected things happen. IDs get lost or stolen. It's not a perfect world. As I just posted a friend lost her license and was still able to board her plane. Of course things will change next year when a REAL ID compliant license is required and it's currently completely unknown what procedure, if any, will be put in place for the outliers. (And yes, I do recognize the difference between those who don't obtain a compliant ID and those who have one. TSA has the ability to differentiate between the two but I doubt that they have the political will to implement a policy that does differentiate.)

Of course “unexpected things happen” —- and as long as it is assumed that there will be accommodation for people who lose or forget their license, the TSA staff at the airport will have to staff up for them or divert attention to accommodate them,  and people will show up expecting such accommodation.    

 

   

[sparks1093]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course “unexpected things happen” —- and as long as it is assumed that there will be accommodation for people who lose or forget their license, the TSA staff at the airport will have to staff up for them or divert attention to accommodate them,  and people will show up expecting such accommodation.    

 

   

They are likely staffed anyway and if they aren't then the person without the proper ID will have to chill their heels until they are there. The accommodations will be there but there is nothing that says they will necessarily be timely.