New ship

[foodsvcmgr]

Kohl1957 I must also agree with your point that the full width promenade should certainly be a feature of any Cunarder, even if the rest of the ship is derived from a shared platform out of economic necessity.

Question for you also, you refer to STELLENDAM from what I gather as a reference to the KONINGSDAM class from which the new Cunard vessel is based.

Did HAL use that name for that class of new builds?
I was last aware of that proposed name being considered prior to the launch of the Statendam class in the early ‘90’s, hadn’t seen reference to it since.

[eroller]

5 hours ago, kohl1957 said:

There is NO reason not to have a walk-around promenade deck.  So I'll happily give QUEEN STELLENDAM a miss.  And since when do Holland America liners form a "model" for Cunarders!

 

 

Well the accountants would disagree.  It's a difference of offering a deck of obstructed view cabins or full balcony cabins.  Money talks.  Thankfully we still have lines like Disney, Viking, and Saga that are building new ships with full wrap-around promenade decks.  We also have lines like Carnival, NCL, and MSC which have taken the concept of a promenade deck to new heights.  The promenade deck is built above the lifeboats and is fully unobstructed.  They have made it revenue producing with some bars and restaurants along it, but still wonderful spaces with a great connection to the sea.  I just got off NORWEGIAN BLISS last week and the "Waterfront" as they call it was just wonderful (see attached picture).  Lovely quiet seating areas and glass waist high railings (no glass wall here) with a great connection to the sea.  I sat out there for hours as we cruised along the Mexican Riviera.  

 

As far as HAL ships becoming a model for Cunarders ... welcome to the modern age of cruising.  As you are well aware, basic ship platforms are used across multiple brands as a method to reign in costs on these capital expenditures.  I doubt we will ever see another QM2 unfortunately.  I don't like it, but it is what it is.  If Cunard can make this new ship their own, like they did with QV and QE, then I'll be pleased.  

[ClipperinSFO]

On a recent crossing when asked by a senior officer what my favorite thing about the QM2 was, I said, after running through the list in my head "The Boat Deck".  Hands down my favorite place on the ship, and probably the most traditional "space" on the ship -- although lovers of Britannia Restaurant, the Chart Room and even the Commodore Club might rightfully disagree.

 

We sailed on Crystal Serenity over the summer and while CS had a nice, clean, wide wrap-around promenade, it was completely devoid of character: no lifeboats and no deck chairs!  Only occasional runners and walkers.  There was also an exposed feeling (no shade?) from not having any shelter provide by lifeboats suspended overhead.

 

The QM2 Boat Deck is definitive.  

[deck chair]

Hello one and all....

 

 

I simply will not sail on a ship without a proper usable promenade deck accented by loungers such as exist on QM2, QE, and QV,.  To me there is something magical about sitting out on that deck shaded by lifeboats, reading, watching the sea go by and chatting with fellow passengers who stroll by..  

Deck Chair

[richard_london]

The absence of any news is somewhat odd, news on new builds for other lines is much clearer if you read the cruise news sites.

 

I periodically check the Cunard website to see if the fourth vessel is still listed because I have a theory.  But with radio silence for Cunard, I like everyone in this thread is speculating.  So this is my thought.

 

According to the following story from March this year HAL shed 5,308 berths when it sold off its four ships early on in the pandemic.  The new Rotterdam gives them back 2,650.  But HAL is still 2,658 down from its pre-Covid berth count.  What better solution that an under construction vessel based on the Pinnacle class to slot in to the HAL fleet and fill that gap.  Two new ships of 2,650 berths is much more efficient than the older four they sold of which were around (average of) 1327 per ship.

 

Anyway, it's just a hunch, but given Carnival is moving other ships around - a Costa vessel to Carnival and an Aida new build to Carnival - to balance up all those ships sold off, who is to say the new Cunarder won't go the same way?

 

Personally, from the way it looks I'd rather it went to HAL and for Cunard to add a pair of smaller vessels. I love Cunard but I think the luxury market has moved on so much since the QE entered service.  Something like MSC is doing with its new Explora brand would be great for Cunard as its ships could still be Cunard luxury but to differentiate from the QM2, QV and QE by being able to go to the smaller ports, and take a leaf out of Azamara, with overnighters and curated tours. 

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24644-holland-america-line-status-update.html

[Germancruiser]

I agree they might shift the planed new ship to HAL or wherever they want to. So they ( Cunard) can come up with a new concept which includes a propper Prommenade Deck.

 

Thanks for those great pictures- also one of my favorite things about Cunard vessels- this wonderful Prommenade Deck.

 

In my book a Cunarder lacking a propper Prommenade Deck  ist not a Cunarder.

 

I am just back from my very first MSC cruise in YC- wonderful experience- BUT ONLY in YC. The ship was the MSC Seaside- and they reinvented the Prommenade Deck with nice outdoor seating areas, great view´s and exactlly the closnes to the sea which makes a cruise a cruise.

 

It´s quite simple if the ship No.4 does lack the Prommenade Deck as we know it from Cunard´s ship- I simply stick to the other three Queens.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Germancruiser

[ClipperinSFO]

On 11/9/2021 at 9:46 PM, kohl1957 said:

  Before long, Cunard's "tradition" will be confined to the endless framed photos of David Niven and Elizabeth Taylor on the old QUEEN MARY and QUEEN ELIZABETH.  

 

Touche  @kohl1957! I almost spit out my coffee when I read this line.  I already find QM2 a tad too self-referential for my taste.  

[seacruise9]

Hi,

 

It is possible the new ship will be assigned to another cruise line. The ship that originally was going to be the Queen Victoria was moved to P&O and became the Arcadia. Cunard decided to revise the design to make it more of a proper Cunarder.

 

Chuck

[showingdiva]

3 hours ago, seacruise9 said:

Hi,

 

It is possible the new ship will be assigned to another cruise line. The ship that originally was going to be the Queen Victoria was moved to P&O and became the Arcadia. Cunard decided to revise the design to make it more of a proper Cunarder.

 

Chuck

 

Arcadia, which just so happens to have a proper promenade deck  😉

 

[Guest SilverHengroen]

Funny thing about the prom deck is the Pinnacle Class is closer to what the Edwardian liners looked like in the first place, with the boats sat on the boat deck, and very little space behind them (See Mauretania, Aquitania, Olympic class) while the actual fist class wrap-around promenade deck was the deck below, and closer in concept to the Lanai decks on some modern ships. Really the QE2 first brought about the idea of the boat deck being the main prom deck, and that was because they wanted to annex the traditional wrap around promenades below as internal money generating/ circulating space. 

 

While it's possible the ship will go to HAL, unlike Arcadia which was a straight up Vista class design (that was the problem, there wasn't enough space to have a Princess Grill like on QM2) it sounds like 'Fincantieri 6274' is already modified to be bigger (113,000 vs 99,000 GT) and include Cunard specific features - as the ships that ended up becoming Queen Victoria and Queen Elizabeth also did. While that doesn't fully preclude a transfer, it does make it more difficult/ costly to do it, as they would have to re-do all the interior designs, cancel old and order new components etc etc. The calculation would have to be would it make more money dong it that way than just ordering another pinnacle class for HAL. My guess is no, particularly as Cunard seem to be targeting Australia/ Pacific markets with Queen Elizabeth now, so there will be some slack in the UK/ German markets that usually fill out their sailings outside of QM2's US-oriented crossings market. 

[PORT ROYAL]

On 11/12/2021 at 1:37 AM, Germancruiser said:

 

It´s quite simple if the ship No.4 does lack the Prommenade Deck as we know it from Cunard´s ship- I simply stick to the other three Queens.

Same here and already conveyed .  Have declined a potential opening if no prom.

As an aside, your comments reminds one of something amusing.  We have friends who own boutiques in Spain.  Their shop associates have an initial judgment game when a client enters.  

It’s called Prada or Nada.  

Replace the word Prada with Cunarder.

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, PORT ROYAL said:

 

As an aside, your comments reminds one of something amusing.  We have friends who own boutiques in Spain.  Their shop associates have an initial judgment game when a client enters.  

It’s called Prada or Nada.  

Replace the word Prada with Cunarder.

 

 

 

Promenade deck or not , new ship is just too big and not enough outside space for number of passengers. 

 

We're  clearly  Nada as wouldn't be seen dead in Prada, leave that to those who live their life on Instagram. 

[ClipperinSFO]

11 hours ago, SilverHengroen said:

Really the QE2 first brought about the idea of the boat deck being the main prom deck, and that was because they wanted to annex the traditional wrap around promenades below as internal money generating/ circulating space. 

 

You bring up a really interesting point.   On QE2 annexing that space previously occupied be the enclosed promenade made many of their public rooms on Upper Deck and Quarter Deck feel (and act) passageways rather than rooms.  If it's not too heretical to say, it's one of the things that bugged me about the ship: I often felt like I was sitting in well appointed a hallway.

 

I think this has been solved to good extent on QM2 as those glorious long corridors down the middle of decks 2 and 3 allow places like the Chart Room and the Golden Lion (amount others) feel like proper discreet spaces, rather than corridors for getting fore and aft. 

[Windsurfboy]

Given this new big ship , will appeal to a slightly  different market and  Grills will compete with Yacht club,  the retreat etc. Has anyone have any idea of size of grills deck. Will it be substantial and even have own pool. Or will it be almost an afterthought light QM2.

[Guest SilverHengroen]

On 11/13/2021 at 1:28 PM, kohl1957 said:

Well yes. And no.... Edwardian (like AQUITANIA) and into ships into the 1920s (like LACONIA and FRANCONIA) had Boat Decks that were indeed all about boats.... usually a "wall" of two of them stacked atop each other almost wholly blocking the view to sea from the open deck behind. But all had proper and extensive covered or enclosed promenades on the two decks or so below.

 

The development of the "gravity davit" which raised the davits over the deck to carry the boats freed the deck below to serve as an open promenade.  Remarkably, although introduced in the early 1920s, the first Cunarder with these was QUEEN MARY (36).

 

The new Cunarder and HAL sisters are a throwback to a LACONIA but with no open decks below.   Your only walk-around (at least it may be that) promenade is a narrow, often dark walkway behind a wall of lifeboats resting on the deck rather than carried overhead.... it has all the charm of a gantry walkway in a power plant. And narrow enough in places to discourage all but the most determined jogger. It is, in my opinion, a retrograde design, poorly conceived and foisted on us by the same company that features photos of their lovely boat decks as a selling feature.  I sincerely doubt brochures (if we ever see one again from Cunard) will be showing that on the new Cunarder!

Yes Queen Mary/ Elizabeth were an intermediate step, though the boat deck still largely seems to have been ancillary outside space (and I believe would have been class segregated along its length while in service so you wouldn't have been able to do a full lap anyway?). It seems be ships from the early cruising days like QE2 that did away with the enclosed promenade decks and pushed the steamer chairs and lap walking up onto the boat deck. Even earlier postwar liners like the United States and France retained their traditional promenade decks flanking the main first class public rooms. 

 

22 hours ago, ClipperinSFO said:

 

You bring up a really interesting point.   On QE2 annexing that space previously occupied be the enclosed promenade made many of their public rooms on Upper Deck and Quarter Deck feel (and act) passageways rather than rooms.  If it's not too heretical to say, it's one of the things that bugged me about the ship: I often felt like I was sitting in well appointed a hallway.

 

I think this has been solved to good extent on QM2 as those glorious long corridors down the middle of decks 2 and 3 allow places like the Chart Room and the Golden Lion (amount others) feel like proper discreet spaces, rather than corridors for getting fore and aft. 

Yes, while some dislike the layout with the half decks to take you forward of the theatre or aft of the Britannia, I think QM2's overall layout really makes an already large ship feel even more incredibly spacious! The extra headroom on decks 2 and 3 probably helps with that as well, but there's definitely a wonderful feeling just from walking around the ship. 

 

9 hours ago, Windsurfboy said:

Given this new big ship , will appeal to a slightly  different market and  Grills will compete with Yacht club,  the retreat etc. Has anyone have any idea of size of grills deck. Will it be substantial and even have own pool. Or will it be almost an afterthought light QM2.

I'm assuming a similar Grills Complex to the QV/QE - I think QM2 is slightly more egalitarian as she needs lots of space to keep everyone occupied and entertained on a TA (or maybe because she was the first to debut the concept in its current form and the more recent ships built it out further...). If the original render is accurate it looks like the grills might be further aft in the new design? Makes me want more details, I hope they will put something out soon, deck plans will have to come alongside the itineraries going on sale, and that can't be too much longer, surely? 

[johnnylikely]

Any update on this? Lol, do we have any sort of date for new ship?

[Mattsudds]

Cunard have been telling travel agents that the 2023 programme will be published on 18 Jan. and bookable from 1 Feb. If the new ship is coming in 2023, it ought to be included one assumes. Below is the message 

 

==========

 

New Itineraries will be available to preview on our website starting January 18, 2022, on sale for Cunard World Club Members onFebruary 1, 2022, and on sale to the general public on February 2, 2022.

[johnnylikely]

On 1/12/2022 at 11:53 PM, Mattsudds said:

Cunard have been telling travel agents that the 2023 programme will be published on 18 Jan. and bookable from 1 Feb. If the new ship is coming in 2023, it ought to be included one assumes. Below is the message 

 

==========

 

New Itineraries will be available to preview on our website starting January 18, 2022, on sale for Cunard World Club Members onFebruary 1, 2022, and on sale to the general public on February 2, 2022.

Yes that's what I thought but there's been no mention or fanfare of it... Fingers xd!

[Mattsudds]

No sign of the new ship in this Cunard programme through to Jan 2024. Of course if could be a separate announcement later too. 

[SummmerInKefalonia]

December 2023 it is rumoured that it is going to be delivered.

[molecrochip]

Andy only a couple of weeks until the name is announced.

[Germancruiser]

The name will be announced! Is that ment as irony? LOL! What source did you open to get that information. Can´t wait to hear the name of the new Cunard Baby- and the confirmation that they WILL install a propper prommenade deck - as we are all so much appreciate from the other Cunarders. LOL.

[Host Hattie]

molecrochip has very good sources in Carnival UK !

[Underwatr]

I'll reiterate my guess of Q. Anne.

[P2l]

Since by all accounts it doesn't follow the style of the other queens, perhaps it'll be the "MS Freddie Mercury".