Majesty Diamond situation

[twangster]

18 minutes ago, kruzerci said:

All diamond and above members need to be emailing Royal Caribbean and posting on social media about this. It isn’t just about Majesty. If they do this to Majesty without a backlash, they will take it as a signal that they can make further changes without repercussions. Give an inch and take a mile. 

 

They kind of have to make changes.

 

Last week on Anthem something like 85 people graduated to Diamond and 35 graduated to D+.  That's one ship in the fleet.  If the average is 5 per ship per week graduating into Diamond that's 130 per week or 6,670 per year.  I'm betting it's higher than 5 per week averaged over the year, I'm being ultra conservative at 5 per ship per week.

 

How can they accommodate another 6,670 consuming unlimited drinks every night, 365 days a year?

 

Changes are coming because they have to.   CAS doesn't scale the way it's written now.  

[Happycruiser17]

3 hours ago, LadyShiva said:

Why would write such a hyperbolic email, if what you treasure are the friendships made in the RCI Lounge?  You fired a salvo that is excessively easy to dodge by sorting your message into the round file. It wasn't constructive criticism as much as a declaration of war by someone who always intended to take their money vaguely "elsewhere."

What??????   The intent was if you read it carefully, to let everyone know that they are no longer going to have the lounge hours on Majesty after announcing yesterday onboard.  It made everyone on board rather mad ... thus the notice to the Board for those who may care to know and if they care, to let Miami know they don't appreciate it.  That's it.   From there others added their own take on whatever.  But I have certainly learned by all this NOT to ever let people know what's happening onboard ship from now on!  Find out when you get onboard!!!!!

[kruzerci]

21 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

They kind of have to make changes.

 

Last week on Anthem something like 85 people graduated to Diamond and 35 graduated to D+.  That's one ship in the fleet.  If the average is 5 per ship per week graduating into Diamond that's 130 per week or 6,670 per year.  I'm betting it's higher than 5 per week averaged over the year, I'm being ultra conservative at 5 per ship per week.

 

How can they accommodate another 6,670 consuming unlimited drinks every night, 365 days a year?

 

Changes are coming because they have to.   CAS doesn't scale the way it's written now.  

This is also the a long cruise during cheapest time of year when most of the loyalists are out and cruising. And a lot of those 6,670 are probably doing one cruise a year not the 365 days a year you are stating. 
 

I’m not going to to argue with you, I’m sure Royal Caribbean can do no wrong in your eyes. Good luck!

Edited January 17, 2020 by kruzerci

[Happycruiser17]

34 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

This kind of dilutes your case a little bit. 

 

Why continue on towards Pinnacle if you plan to immediately start cruising elsewhere? 

 

The truth is once you hit Pinnacle they kind of own you.  Sure that doesn't stop a pinnacle from sailing another line but once you get there are you really going to stop sailing Royal?  If so, switch now and start enjoying the greener grass over there and vesting into that loyalty program.

 

BTW - you'd better avoid Empress.  No nightly Diamond event at all, just 3 drinks on the card.  Somehow still great cruises though.  

We are cruising and have been cruising other cruise lines and are in their programs.  But as close as we are to Pinnacle, there is no point not reaching the top and being grandfathered in with any changes coming.

[Merion_Mom]

11 minutes ago, kruzerci said:

This is also the a long cruise during cheapest time of year when most of the loyalists are out and cruising. And a lot of those 6,670 are probably doing one cruise a year not the 365 days a year you are stating. 
 

I’m not going to to argue with you, I’m sure Royal Caribbean can do no wrong in your eyes. Good luck!

 

Unfortunately for your hypothesis, the information on the internet says otherwise.

 

It was not just the Anthem that made this change this month.  Several other ships sent out these notices (D+ barred from CL), including some Vision and Radiance class ships, not on "longer" cruises.

[twangster]

9 minutes ago, kruzerci said:

I’m sure Royal Caribbean can do no wrong in your eyes.

 

Oh they do wrong and I'm not afraid to call them out when they do but anyone with even a slightest sense of business savvy can see this unlimited booze night after night with a rapidly growing club level isn't going to scale.

 

When ships held 600 guests and there were a couple of ships they could offer free wine at dinner.  Now Royal ships have over 85,000 people eating dinner every night.  Free wine for 85,000 doesn't work.  It didn't scale so it was removed as a perk.  

 

The same has got to happen to CAS.  It's growing very rapidly.  They can't sustain free unlimited nightly booze for ever.    

 

From a business perspective it's a good problem to have.  More ships, another 15,000 guests eating dinner every night by the end of 2022.  Another 20,000 Diamonds by that time drinking happy hour drinks when they sail.  

 

Winter is coming.  

[toxicfairy]

4 hours ago, Happycruiser17 said:

Honestly, it is not that you pay equal per cruise that says you should have the same benefits ... since it is called a "loyalty program" it is that after cruising for years to get to the level to achieve the perks that enhance your cruise, to then have them taken away, one after the other, makes many of us at this point start looking around at other options.  

 

When we became Diamond, Diamonds only got beer and wine (there were no drinks on a card).  You did not get water, you did not get soft drinks (even if you didn't drink alcohol) ... just beer and wine.  In order to get mixed drinks you needed to be Diamond Plus.  (You also had to put your Seapass card on the table and leave it there while you were in the lounge or you did not get a drink, thus there was no "sneaking in" and bringing in unentitled friends/family.)  So we worked our way up to Diamond Plus and bam ... then they opened the door to the Diamonds to have the mixed drinks, etc. Then over the years they took away on some ships the reserved seating in the theater, the Concierge Lounge (which we enjoy because we sit in there during the day and read, etc. where it is quiet instead of trying to find seats around the ship), the priority tender tickets, free cabin upgrades, and other things and Diamond Plus felt, as may of us call ourselves "the orphan children of RCCL" .  To achieve Diamond it's 80 points, to achieve Diamond Plus it's 175, but to climb the ladder and keep going when it seems an immense and impossible road to Pinnacle takes 700 points.  Instead of incentivizing Diamond Plus by adding additional perks to keep climbing, gradually we lost perks.  

 

We have several cruising friends who are achieving Pinnacle level in the next few months as we are who feel the same way, as well as many we meet and talk with in the lounge (when there is one for us) who are pushing to reach the top before changes are instituted to C&A to get grandfathered in, and will broaden our options on which cruise line we choose for our future travel.

I do understand your feelings. When i started my job my benefits were wonderful and free plus if I stayed 25 years I would retire with my pension AND keep my medical benefits. Fast forward 19 years...I pay into my medical and the plan is half of what it use to be. And now that I am much closer to that 25yr mark i found out I will not be able to keep my medical. Which means not retiring when I planned on it. So I guess thats kind of like not getting my full diamond plus bonuses. 

[Another_Critic]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

They kind of have to make changes.

[snip]

 

Changes are coming because they have to.   CAS doesn't scale the way it's written now.  

 

They need to stop account linking / status matching (for kids, SO, etc).  Status match per cruise,  not for life.

 

Lifetime status matching plus cutting benefits (due to too many members) is not going to create loyalty.

[Happycruiser17]

8 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

They need to stop account linking / status matching (for kids, SO, etc).  Status match per cruise,  not for life.

 

Lifetime status matching plus cutting benefits (due to too many members) is he not going to create loyalty.

I agree.  When our son was young and cruised with us he got his own points and when he became of age he now only has the points he actually cruised.  There should be no grandfathering of children permanently into the C&A unless they have actually cruised enough to achieve that level on their own.  Royal created the mess we are all in now with not addressing the C&A problems a long time ago and allowing them to have gotten way out of hand which now affects our lounges, our perks, etc.  

[toxicfairy]

2 minutes ago, Happycruiser17 said:

I agree.  When our son was young and cruised with us he got his own points and when he became of age he now only has the points he actually cruised.  There should be no grandfathering of children permanently into the C&A unless they have actually cruised enough to achieve that level on their own.  Royal created the mess we are all in now with not addressing the C&A problems a long time ago and allowing them to have gotten way out of hand which now affects our lounges, our perks, etc.  

I agree with you. My daughter did 2 cruises with us but was over 18 on the second so she stayed Gold, my step daughter also did 2 but she was under 18 and we were Emerald when we did the 2nd with them so my step daughter remained Emerald. They are both on their own now so any more points are on them but seems silly they don't have to earn their own.

[twangster]

2 minutes ago, Another_Critic said:

 

They need to stop account linking / status matching (for kids, SO, etc).  Status match per cruise,  not for life.

 

Lifetime status matching plus cutting benefits (due to too many members) is not going to create loyalty.

 

That could be a change coming, although large and increasing upper top tier numbers isn't a problem.  Why would they want to reduce top tier upper levels?  Us cruisers might want that, but why would the company?

 

I get it.  I've made it into the club, now close the doors so my benefits don't have to change.  Works for me.  From the company's perspective that doesn't work.

 

Motivating new spouses and when those kids grow up and start buying their own cruise later in life - that is working right now, they are motivated to return to Royal and that is the purpose of a loyalty program.  Plying all of us and them with unlimited booze (or insert another perk) doesn't work.  

 

I'm also not convinced it's the kids and spouses that are leading to this situation.  More people cruising, more ships, more B2B cruisers, more frequent cruises.  Only Royal knows for sure but I don't think this mess is from kids being gifted their status, it's the empty nesters and retirees taking so many cruises.

 

Royal needs those kids to grow up and become the next generation of cruisers so that when we die off someone else is in the club discussing this "problem".    

[twangster]

17 minutes ago, toxicfairy said:

I agree with you. My daughter did 2 cruises with us but was over 18 on the second so she stayed Gold, my step daughter also did 2 but she was under 18 and we were Emerald when we did the 2nd with them so my step daughter remained Emerald. They are both on their own now so any more points are on them but seems silly they don't have to earn their own.

 

My step daughter missed getting Diamond by a matter of months.  My fault, I found Royal later in life and didn't crank up the cruise machine fast enough for her to be gifted my status.  She missed it by a few months.

 

Now she is in a position to buy her first cruise.  She shopped around.  She loves Royal ships way better than Carnival.  She booked Carnival.  Price won out despite her love of Royal.  As silly as it sounds, 3 free drinks every night would have tilted the scales in Royal's favor.

 

Her status wasn't enough to motivate her to book Royal.  Can't blame her really, money is tight at that age.  

 

From our perspective good riddance - one less thirsty mouth in the club right?.  From the company's perspective, they lost an existing consumer to a competitor.  

 

Removing the kids earning status works best for us cruisers who have made it but it doesn't best serve the company. 

Edited January 18, 2020 by twangster

[toxicfairy]

6 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

My step daughter missed getting Diamond by a matter of months.  My fault, I found Royal later in life and didn't crank up the cruise machine fast enough for her to be gifted my status.  She missed it by a few months.

 

Now she is in a position to buy her first cruise.  She shopped around.  She loves Royal ships way better than Carnival.  She booked Carnival.  Price won out despite her love of Royal.  As silly as it sounds, 3 free drinks every night would have tilted the scales in Royal's favor.

 

Her status wasn't enough to motivate her to book Royal.  Can't blame her really, money is tight at that age.  

 

From our perspective good riddance - one less thirsty mouth in the club right?.  From the company's perspective, they lost an existing consumer to a competitor.  

 

Removing the kids earning status works best for us cruisers who have made it but it doesn't best serve the company. 

None of it really bothers me. Dh & I will be diamond AFTER our 4 nighter in Feb ( God willing we stay well and the weather doesn't keep us from flying out there). But I'm not a big drinker and DH buys the drink package. So no biggie. We had a Grand suite a couple of times and only went to the concierge lounge twice but to be honest we found the people in there quite snobbish. Saving whole tables for the " rest of our party" and acting like Gold cards and status made them some kind of Gods. Yes I'd like to make diamond and above but mostly simply because it means I was able to keep cruising not because I got a free drink...now a free chocolate bar might be another story😍. As far as crowded lounges I think people need to calm down, you can flash your pins in other places. 

[twonpcb]

I’m on Majesty in 8 days.  So I can assume DL will not be available?  While it will still be true that I can still get my 3 drinks on any bar on the ship, I will miss the socialization of my fellow long term cruisers.....and the snacks provided during the DL hours were pretty damn good....

[Coralc]

14 minutes ago, twonpcb said:

I’m on Majesty in 8 days.  So I can assume DL will not be available?  While it will still be true that I can still get my 3 drinks on any bar on the ship, I will miss the socialization of my fellow long term cruisers.....and the snacks provided during the DL hours were pretty damn good....

 

I agree with you about the snacks, especially chicken wings and cheese. We will be onboard in about 2 weeks. So let us know, if they still have any kind of spread in the VIKING CROWN LOUNGE or elsewhere? We can read Cruise Critic in NOLA. Thanks! 

Edited January 18, 2020 by Coralc

[Clarea]

5 minutes ago, twonpcb said:

I’m on Majesty in 8 days.  So I can assume DL will not be available?   ....

 

Majesty does not and has never had a DL, so you can be sure no DL will be available.

[davekathy]

5 minutes ago, twonpcb said:

I’m on Majesty in 8 days.  So I can assume DL will not be available?  While it will still be true that I can still get my 3 drinks on any bar on the ship, I will miss the socialization of my fellow long term cruisers.....and the snacks provided during the DL hours were pretty damn good....

No DL on the Majesty. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

So, what about Suites. Suites don’t normally get the 3 drinks on their card. Access has been a perk they paid for. Suites had access to the VCL event on MJ. No event, no drinks?

[Clarea]

2 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

So, what about Suites. Suites don’t normally get the 3 drinks on their card. Access has been a perk they paid for. Suites had access to the VCL event on MJ. No event, no drinks?

 

Correct.

[cgncruiser]

The whole situation is wrecked. C&A members are stripped of a dedicated lounge, suite guests (as of next week)are granted 3 drink vouchers which is a C&A exclusive benefit.

People who do not understand the rightful statement of happycruiser17  are coming with jealousy posts....

Don't you guys do not understand that Royal is disloyal to ALL C&A members, be it Diamonds or Pinnacles w/r to Majesty`s lounge situation as well as suite guest' situation (taking away the canapes and  quiet lounge character which they were able to cater for until this week?

Either you are pregnant or you are not pregnant. Either Royal takes it away on each and every ship or not. But taking all the benefits away on MJ and EM only is disloyal to MJ/EM clients. These are the oldest ships with least amenities, you would expect that on these ships Royal walks the extra mile - but no they rather mark these ships the "shunned" ships in the fleet. What a marketing disaster and blow to loyal D, D+, Pins and suites.

And for those pax who booked MJ months ago btw for the same price as any modern Florida based ship WITH full C&A/suite benefits, RCCL's decision shows nothing but contempt to loyalists and suite pax as flights are booked and MJ cruises cannot be changed anymore.

[cruisegirl1]

Many of us remember when Majesty, Empress and others had no lounge, nightly event and NO vouchers. If we sailed  some ships with a lounge, you had the benefit. If you sailed others, you did not. 
 

m

 

 

 

 

 

[TheSweetPotatoQueen]

10 hours ago, Coralc said:

 

I agree with you about the snacks, especially chicken wings and cheese. We will be onboard in about 2 weeks. So let us know, if they still have any kind of spread in the VIKING CROWN LOUNGE or elsewhere? We can read Cruise Critic in NOLA. Thanks! 

I will let you know Saturday, January 25. We’re very disappointed that RC has taken away the nightly diamond event in the VIKING CROWN LOUNGE😉! This now ‘stripped perk’ would be just our luck. 
  Sure wish our paths would have crossed this time. I’ll definitely post here once we’re on the ship..

[twangster]

3 hours ago, cgncruiser said:

The whole situation is wrecked. C&A members are stripped of a dedicated lounge, suite guests (as of next week)are granted 3 drink vouchers which is a C&A exclusive benefit.

People who do not understand the rightful statement of happycruiser17  are coming with jealousy posts....

Don't you guys do not understand that Royal is disloyal to ALL C&A members, be it Diamonds or Pinnacles w/r to Majesty`s lounge situation as well as suite guest' situation (taking away the canapes and  quiet lounge character which they were able to cater for until this week?

Either you are pregnant or you are not pregnant. Either Royal takes it away on each and every ship or not. But taking all the benefits away on MJ and EM only is disloyal to MJ/EM clients. These are the oldest ships with least amenities, you would expect that on these ships Royal walks the extra mile - but no they rather mark these ships the "shunned" ships in the fleet. What a marketing disaster and blow to loyal D, D+, Pins and suites.

And for those pax who booked MJ months ago btw for the same price as any modern Florida based ship WITH full C&A/suite benefits, RCCL's decision shows nothing but contempt to loyalists and suite pax as flights are booked and MJ cruises cannot be changed anymore.

 

NE (the proper shortcut for Empress) has had nothing taken away.  It never had a nightly event, never had a DL.  She has sailed for years like this.  

 

Nothing in CAS is an entitlement.  They can and will change the terms and conditions anytime they want to, that is written into the terms and conditions.

 

BTW - not pregnant.

[cgncruiser]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

 

NE (the proper shortcut for Empress) has had nothing taken away.  It never had a nightly event, never had a DL.  She has sailed for years like this.  

 

Nothing in CAS is an entitlement.  They can and will change the terms and conditions anytime they want to, that is written into the terms and conditions.

 

BTW - not pregnant.

Terms and Conditions apply to all "pregnant" ships. In case of NE you are obviously right, if they never had a nightly event than they cannot take something away. In the case of MJ it is different- they have taken the nightly lounge event (temp reservation of VCL) away -deliberately- and for all affected, Suites, D, D+, Pinnacles. That is what I call Royal disloyalty, one way street.

 

P.S. I believe the discussion here also shows the different consumer rights. Here in Europe, if you book a family resort and later they close the children playground because it's too expensive to maintain, you are entitled for a free of charge rebooking or withdrawal of booking with full refund. 

I wished they offered that in the USA for fully paid future MJ bookings.

 

We shall stand united here in this case , D,D+,Pins and Suites

Edited January 18, 2020 by cgncruiser

[twangster]

28 minutes ago, cgncruiser said:

P.S. I believe the discussion here also shows the different consumer rights. Here in Europe, if you book a family resort and later they close the children playground because it's too expensive to maintain, you are entitled for a free of charge rebooking or withdrawal of booking with full refund. 

I wished they offered that in the USA for fully paid future MJ bookings.

 

We shall stand united here in this case , D,D+,Pins and Suites

 

That's why cruises cost more in other regions.  Consumer protections don't come free.  As you noted though this isn't Europe and the CAS program allows them to make changes at anytime.  

 

Good luck in your cause, but it still seems like entitlement to me, not a "free" loyalty program.