Can Viking Remain Viable With This Extreme Revenue Loss

[Candlesmith]

5 hours ago, tomworldwidewaftage said:

I convinced Viking won't stay out of bankruptcy before we get our refund.

 

And, so saying, you create an atmosphere in which people may panic and demand refunds immediately instead of being willing to sit this out.  Your prediction therefore runs the very real risk of becoming a self-fulfilling  prophecy.  
Thanks, Tom,  those of us who are willing to give Viking a chance, and may have thousands of dollars in multiple bookings in the balance, appreciate your careless behavior in our behalf!

[Richard2]

I really find it odd that all the doom and gloom talk does not take into account the fact that Viking is Norwegian flagged. It is a great source of pride to Norway, a key long-term source of tourism, and Torstein Hagen is extremely well-positioned in Norwegian politics and banking. This is not an American company dealing the the politics of "bail-outs." No way Viking is disappearing. 

[Redtravel]

Cruise lines unfortunately have been in the news showing corona virus on some ships. Many people were caught on cruises in a March that had problems. I was one of them. Many people have had their booked cruises canceled. I was one of them. Some people have not been actively affected by the virus, but are scared to travel. Count me in. Some people have gotten sick or lost family members. Not sick, thankfully.  Will miss some friends. There is also some discussions about requiring doctor certification for guests over 70. Over 70.   Until there is a cure or vaccine available,  many people will not book any future travel. That’s me. I never thought that I would be happy that a booked cruise would be canceled.  I felt relief when a Viking canceled my cruise. I asked for my money.  Not willing to wait and see. I have a future cruise credit from a Oceania after that March cruise. Not sure that I will ever use it. For now, staying home and hoping for a better future. 

[duquephart]

4 hours ago, Candlesmith said:

And, so saying, you create an atmosphere in which people may panic and demand refunds immediately instead of being willing to sit this out.  Your prediction therefore runs the very real risk of becoming a self-fulfilling  prophecy.  
Thanks, Tom,  those of us who are willing to give Viking a chance, and may have thousands of dollars in multiple bookings in the balance, appreciate your careless behavior in our behalf!

 

You really think one guy on a cruise forum is going to "create an atmosphere in which people may panic and demand refunds immediately" ----- one guy, really?

[Candlesmith]

2 hours ago, duquephart said:

You really think one guy on a cruise forum is going to "create an atmosphere in which people may panic and demand refunds immediately" ----- one guy, really?

There has been a great deal of discussion along these lines (See the title of this thread). It has been an reasonable exchange of opinions, for the most part, but, it only takes one voice yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded theater to cause a stampede. So, to answer your question, given the rhetoric, I think “one guy” can do a lot of harm, yes. 

Edited April 17, 2020 by Candlesmith
Punctuation

[Captain_Morgan]

7 hours ago, Richard2 said:

I really find it odd that all the doom and gloom talk does not take into account the fact that Viking is Norwegian flagged. It is a great source of pride to Norway, a key long-term source of tourism, and Torstein Hagen is extremely well-positioned in Norwegian politics and banking. This is not an American company dealing the the politics of "bail-outs." No way Viking is disappearing. 

I agree that there is a sense of pride within the country as it relates to Viking and its representation of Norway, etc but if Hagen was so well positioned so as to be on the receiving end of financial assistance, why didn’t he seek investment from within but instead went to China, America and Canada?  I’m not saying that Viking is teetering on the edge but based on publicly available information it doesn’t sound as rosy and wonderful as some might like it to be, and I would think governments are more likely to bail out companies and industries that actually employ their own people en mass as opposed to well heeled businessmen living overseas.  It makes me laugh when CEOs try to argue that the cruise industry employs so many people in ports, etc when the reality is those jobs are seasonal at best and many others (I.e. taxi drivers) would exist irrespective of the ships coming in for 8 hours a day whereas hotels for example employ far more people year.
 

Surely there’s going to be a very different cruising landscape as I have no doubt some of the bigger lines will come out ‘thinner’ as it relates to the number of ships in operation and I wouldn’t be surprised if others were either acquired by bigger corporations or shelved entirely.  

[Squawkman]

7 hours ago, Candlesmith said:

There has been a great deal of discussion along these lines (See the title of this thread). It has been an reasonable exchange of opinions, for the most part, but, it only takes one voice yelling “FIRE!” in a crowded theater to cause a stampede. So, to answer your question, given the rhetoric, I think “one guy” can do a lot of harm, yes. 

Normally I would agree with duquephart - that one person couldn’t move a mountain. But in this case I fully agree with Candlesmith. At any time - especially during the Covid-19 crisis - you don’t need someone to throw gasoline on the fire. Many of us (if not most) feel that FCC with Viking is worth the gamble. Who knows - Viking May come out stronger - especially in river cruising, which could positively impact on Viking ocean. But “assuring” Viking will go bankrupt can very well contribute to the number of those demanding cash refunds.

[Redtravel]

54 minutes ago, Squawkman said:

Normally I would agree with duquephart - that one person couldn’t move a mountain. But in this case I fully agree with Candlesmith. At any time - especially during the Covid-19 crisis - you don’t need someone to throw gasoline on the fire. Many of us (if not most) feel that FCC with Viking is worth the gamble. Who knows - Viking May come out stronger - especially in river cruising, which could positively impact on Viking ocean. But “assuring” Viking will go bankrupt can very well contribute to the number of those demanding cash refunds.

Taking cash refund or fcc is a choice. Don’t know how many people chose either option. Don’t assume that more people want fcc. I chose cash refund. Not a gambler. I wish Viking success and will reconsider booing at a future time when it is safer.   I am not wishing bankruptcies on anyone. I am preserving my own situation.

[duquephart]

1 hour ago, Squawkman said:

Normally I would agree with duquephart - that one person couldn’t move a mountain. But in this case I fully agree with Candlesmith. At any time - especially during the Covid-19 crisis - you don’t need someone to throw gasoline on the fire. Many of us (if not most) feel that FCC with Viking is worth the gamble. Who knows - Viking May come out stronger - especially in river cruising, which could positively impact on Viking ocean. But “assuring” Viking will go bankrupt can very well contribute to the number of those demanding cash refunds.

 

Well ----- he did not sway me and I'm as skeptical as anyone. If anything, I lean toward the dark side here because I feel are fooling themselves if they think this thing is going to go away inside of a year or (probably) more. Having the better part of 30 grand in Viking's pocket I am still hoping for the best, but you can't slice hope with a steak knife.

[Cienfuegos]

I think it's very clear that most people want Viking to succeed and thrive.  But, it's equally clear that there are many known unknowns here.

 

No rational person will argue that all cruise ship lines practice high levels of sanitation. The recurrence of noro and roto virus infestations is an excellent example. Making the buffet an entirely served operation would go a long way to reducing the occasional, but distressing experience.

 

Even washing hands when entering the buffet is an occasional experience.  On out 2019 October Trade Routes trip, I doubt that  over 25% of people entering the buffet area washed up.

 

Bringing a higher level of service will cost a significant amount of money. Even for an operation like Viking, adding 20 people to the buffet service is a significant uptick in cost. For a large operation like Carnival / Princess, that cost might be 5x greater.

[Candlesmith]

“Even washing hands when entering the buffet is an occasional experience.  On out 2019 October Trade Routes trip, I doubt that  over 25% of people entering the buffet area washed up.”

On our recent South America & the Chilean Fjords trip aboard Viking Jupiter the percentage of people “washing up” was virtually 100% because, if they didn’t do it in their stateroom or a washroom on their way to meals, a crew member was stationed by the door to each dining room - and the hand sanitizer dispenser - to make quite certain everyone at least sanitized their hands before entering!  This was a common theme throughout the ship, at the gangway, for example, but nowhere were they as insistent as at the entrance to every meal venue.

[jonthomas]

Yes that is exactly what happened on our March 6 to 11 cruise. 

Also everyones temperature was taken before boarding. But that is neither here nor there, since anyone can take a Tylenol before

boarding to lower it. 

[terrydtx]

2 hours ago, Redtravel said:

Taking cash refund or fcc is a choice. Don’t know how many people chose either option. Don’t assume that more people want fcc. I chose cash refund. Not a gambler. I wish Viking success and will reconsider booing at a future time when it is safer.   I am not wishing bankruptcies on anyone. I am preserving my own situation.

I agree, not a gambler and also not wishing to throw the dice on my $13,000 plus in cash Viking is holding if the cruise is cancelled. 

[Cienfuegos]

1 hour ago, Candlesmith said:

“Even washing hands when entering the buffet is an occasional experience.  On out 2019 October Trade Routes trip, I doubt that  over 25% of people entering the buffet area washed up.”

On our recent South America & the Chilean Fjords trip aboard Viking Jupiter the percentage of people “washing up” was virtually 100% because, if they didn’t do it in their stateroom or a washroom on their way to meals, a crew member was stationed by the door to each dining room - and the hand sanitizer dispenser - to make quite certain everyone at least sanitized their hands before entering!  This was a common theme throughout the ship, at the gangway, for example, but nowhere were they as insistent as at the entrance to every meal venue.

 

That's wonderful to hear, but I would be amazed if the practice persists once the heat is off.  Still, picking up tongs and serving pieces that 250 people have already used sounds like a risky proposition.

[deec]

Aiken, which River Cruise did you take?  Was it the itinerary or the entire Viking experience?

[DaveSJ711]

16 minutes ago, Cienfuegos said:

 

That's wonderful to hear, but I would be amazed if the practice persists once the heat is off.  Still, picking up tongs and serving pieces that 250 people have already used sounds like a risky proposition.

 

I was on the same ship and same itinerary (Viking Jupiter, Valparaiso to Buenos Aires).  The crew did enforce the hand washing and sanitizing.  But most people knew the drill in advance and didn't need reminding.

As to whether hand washing will continue, I fully expect that it will (and should) -- because the message has been pounded into everybody's brains by now.  Crew will enforce the practice, and passengers will wash their hands before eating. 

[Cienfuegos]

Thanks for the various, first person reports. That's great to hear.  Whether it carries through is yet to be determined

 

[Heidi13]

21 hours ago, duquephart said:

 

You really think one guy on a cruise forum is going to "create an atmosphere in which people may panic and demand refunds immediately" ----- one guy, really?

Might not be related to refunds, but 1 person on FB recently made a statement that on seeing photos of us wearing masks ashore in Komodo that the ship had the virus. That was picked up by the local media and within 24 hrs we were banned from 2 ports in Indonesia and also delayed our arrival into Bali by 24 hrs.

 

Had Viking not worked miracles and sent a senior executive out, we would also have missed Bali.

 

So in my experience, yes 1 person on an open forum can create an atmosphere where people panic.

[Cienfuegos]

14 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Might not be related to refunds, but 1 person on FB recently made a statement that on seeing photos of us wearing masks ashore in Komodo that the ship had the virus. That was picked up by the local media and within 24 hrs we were banned from 2 ports in Indonesia and also delayed our arrival into Bali by 24 hrs.

 

Had Viking not worked miracles and sent a senior executive out, we would also have missed Bali.

 

So in my experience, yes 1 person on an open forum can create an atmosphere where people panic.

One politician made an unwarranted TV comment about IndyMac bank, and caused a bank run. Thousands of people lined up to withdraw funds. The bank collapsed.

[tomworldwidewaftage]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:55 PM, tomworldwidewaftage said:

Viking said 21 business days for our refund, which would have been April 9th.

On April 10th Viking said refunds were going out by next week.

Today Viking is saying 90 days for our refund.

 

Stock analysis are say the public trading cruise lines will be burning a Billion dollars a month.

 

I convinced Viking won't stay out of bankruptcy before we get our refund.

 

Viking finally refunded our money, they way they did it was with no explanation.

All on the same credit card.

1. $500.00 

2. a week later another $4500.00 

3. a week later another $15,000.00

[Candlesmith]

6 hours ago, tomworldwidewaftage said:

Viking finally refunded our money, they way they did it was with no explanation.

All on the same credit card.

1. $500.00 

2. a week later another $4500.00 

3. a week later another $15,000.00

Wow, Tom,

 

And this with no reference to your previous doomsday prediction or the potential harm or distress it might have brought to....whomever.  And not even a thank you.  
 

Consider Paul Gauguin/Ponant refusing to refund a damned penny of the money they have taken from thousands of trusting souls for cruises they cancelled.  This after weeks of leaving people hanging with absolutely no information right up until days before their cruise was to depart.
So terrible is their greed that they even refused to refund the price of gifts from family & friends, (purchased on their own credit cards!), stating they were, “now part of the original cruise package”!

 

Forgive me if I think a little gratitude is in order to Viking for stepping up with a  $20,000 refund - as they promised all along  - even if there was a slight delay.  After all, YOU caused the panic here, for everyone, not Viking.  I’m sure the victims of Paul Gaulguin/Ponant wish they could say the same!

[CurlerRob]

NCL is quite different than Viking, but this is still concerning news - "Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. warned investors it doesn't have enough money to cover its financial obligations this year, an announcement that caused shares in the company to sell off heavily."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cruise-lines-1.5555686

 

We'll continue to think positive thoughts for Viking! 🍻

[terrydtx]

4 minutes ago, CurlerRob said:

NCL is quite different than Viking, but this is still concerning news - "Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. warned investors it doesn't have enough money to cover its financial obligations this year, an announcement that caused shares in the company to sell off heavily."

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/cruise-lines-1.5555686

 

We'll continue to think positive thoughts for Viking! 🍻

If NCL goes under so will Oceania and Regent Seven Seas both part of NCL Holdings.  News like this will only cause more cancelations across the industry. What good is a FCV on NCL if they go under? The same could happen if Viking does the same. My Financial Adviser checked out Viking and according to Moody's they are very cash strapped but not being a public company keeps a lot of their financial condition behind closed doors. We cancelled our VO September cruise today for a 100% cash refund, I hope we get it before too long or they possibly go under. I am not willing to gamble a FCV for a future cruise that may not ever happen.

[Cienfuegos]

Re-reading and understanding the trip insurance and cancel policies might be of use, too.  There's a legal difference between bankruptcy and financial default.

 

Here's what "insure my trip", a well regarded seller of these programs, says

 

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/coronavirus-impact-leads-travelers-to-consider-financial-default-coverage-301019979.html

[Redtravel]

Finally got my refund posted to my credit card.  I was getting annoyed reading comments about how quickly some people were refunded.  Cruise was canceled by Viking on March 30 and it has taken from then to now , May 13th to get a refund.  When I asked for the refund, I was told 2 weeks at most.  Made additional calls and got a variety of responses. all were different.  Not sure why.  Regardless of the various scenarios, the refund makes me feel more comfortable.