Solvency of Cruise Lines

[Travelcat2]

26 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

I strongly disagree, Regent will only work (in my opinion) if they can get away from Oceania and Mr. del Rio.

 

Just my two confederate sense,

 

Marc

 

Would love to know why you dislike Frank so much.  If he were not almost a genius in terms of building a cruise line, I doubt if NCLH would have gotten rid of their former CEO and replaced him with FDR.  I believe in him and his team so much that we may not sail on Regent without him at the helm.  What he has done with Oceania and Regent is quite amazing.  In my opinion, Regent would not exist without him.

 

As a interesting (or not) side note..... you once mentioned that FDR drove us to the ship in Miami.  Many do not know that FDR has picked up passengers and driven them to the port many times.  We have seen him interact with Regent passengers at restaurants as well on onboard the ships.  He and his wife Marcia have lived on Oceania and Regent ships during refurbishments. This means that they slept on the ship with no electricity at times.  He has no problem getting his hands dirty if something needs to be done on the ship.  

 

If I were a writer, I would love to write a book about FDR.  He has done so much for so many people - takes care of them - makes sure that they are okay, etc.  When I take about him, it brings tears to my eyes.  I have never met such a kind and generous human being.  

 

Bottom line - people are not aware of how much that he does because he does not talk about it.  He does not "toot his own horn" as so many people in his position would do.  I wish that everyone could spend time with him.  It is really an enlightening experience.

 

P.S.  Please don't bring up the Renaissance debacle as we don't really know the real story.  All we know is what we have read and a lot of that is simply inaccurate.  Look at what he has done with Oceania and Regent.  New ships - better food - spending millions of dollars to keep their ships in tip-top shape, etc. There is one man (currently in a high position with NCLH) that has a winery.  He once created a wine that he named after Frank.  It is named "Benevolent Dictator".  That fits him to a "t".

Edited April 18, 2020 by Travelcat2

[rallydave]

11 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

I strongly disagree, Regent will only work (in my opinion) if they can get away from Oceania and Mr. del Rio.

 

Just my two confederate sense,

 

Marc

Respectfully disagree Marc. Prices high now would have to substantially increas and here is a substantial reason. 
 

if you remember when NCLH bought PCH they identified $25M in annual savings for the three companies and there was a bonus if that savings could be doubled. Know FDR got a $33M bonus for that savings. As Nd sure bonuses would have gone to other PCH stockholders. So any split would bring back many of those costs which for sure would be paid by customers and probably those savings have increased over the years.  Therefore a significant cost increase for either Regent alone or both regent and Oceania. 

 

[mrlevin]

Jackie, thank you for your post.  We disagree, and we should discuss over a cocktail on our next cruise.  

 

Dave, I know I am just wishful; I just think that current NCLH management is not good.  I really believe in Jason Montague and I know (from both discussions with Jason and comments made by del Rio in public) that Oceania would not be in existence today if not for Jason.  

 

Marc

Edited April 18, 2020 by mrlevin

[Travelcat2]

6 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Jackie, thank you for your post.  We disagree, and we should discuss over a cocktail on our next cruise.  

 

Dave, I know I am just wishful; I just think that current NCLH management is not good.  I really believe in Jason Montague and I know (from both discussions with Jason and comments made by del Rio in public) that Oceania would not be in existence today if not for Jason.  

 

Marc

 

Marc, having a drink with you would be most interesting!😇

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Okay, I know this is a bit off-topic, but could someone remind me of the timeline of Del Rio's involvement with Radisson/Regent/Oceania?  I know he left Renaissance then went somewhere else, but where, and when?

[wcsdkqh]

Apparently NCLH pockets are not as deep as some folks think or they wouldn’t be trying to find a white knight for a cash infusion.

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

Okay, I know this is a bit off-topic, but could someone remind me of the timeline of Del Rio's involvement with Radisson/Regent/Oceania?  I know he left Renaissance then went somewhere else, but where, and when?

 

Had to look up dates but here it goes:

 

Oceania was founded by Frank Del Rio, Robin Lindsay, James Rodriguez, Jeff Drew and Howard Sherman in 2002.

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings purchased Regent (and I think Oceania) in February 2008 for $1B.  Frank was already CEO of Oceania and became CEO of Regent while Mark Conroy remained President (IMHO the best President that Regent ever had).

 

In September 2014, NCLH purchased both companies for $3.05B.  Frank did not take over the role as CEO of NCLH until either late December 2014 or January 2015.  Not too long thereafter he decided to have a CEO/President of each brand.  

 

All of this is pubic information and can be verified.  As you likely noticed, I was a bit unclear about Oceania and PCH.  It is difficult to do research with two cats on my lap.  Hope this answers your question.

[RJ2002]

13 hours ago, mrlevin said:

Hopefully they will spin off Regent.  I know it is just a "pipe" dream but Regent did survive private equity ownership once before.

 

I'll admit that I had to Google the financial term PIPE (Private Investment in Public Equity) that NCLH is apparently exploring through Goldman Sachs.  Wasn't familiar with that type of transaction, but it would appear that it would lend itself more to keeping all three lines together.  Agree with some of the other sentiments expressed that Regent or Oceania would probably have a tough time surviving as stand alone lines, or even with just the two of them together.  I'm hopeful this type of investment would enable all three lines to continue operating, but no doubt the potential new owner would have a significant stake (and say) in NCLH.  As TC2 has mentioned, Regent is in very good shape operationally right now, so hopefully whatever transpires, they won't 'tinker' with it too much.

[RJB]

15 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Would love to know why you dislike Frank so much.  If he were not almost a genius in terms of building a cruise line, I doubt if NCLH would have gotten rid of their former CEO and replaced him with FDR.  I believe in him and his team so much that we may not sail on Regent without him at the helm.  What he has done with Oceania and Regent is quite amazing.  In my opinion, Regent would not exist without him.

 

As a interesting (or not) side note..... you once mentioned that FDR drove us to the ship in Miami.  Many do not know that FDR has picked up passengers and driven them to the port many times.  We have seen him interact with Regent passengers at restaurants as well on onboard the ships.  He and his wife Marcia have lived on Oceania and Regent ships during refurbishments. This means that they slept on the ship with no electricity at times.  He has no problem getting his hands dirty if something needs to be done on the ship.  

 

If I were a writer, I would love to write a book about FDR.  He has done so much for so many people - takes care of them - makes sure that they are okay, etc.  When I take about him, it brings tears to my eyes.  I have never met such a kind and generous human being.  

 

Bottom line - people are not aware of how much that he does because he does not talk about it.  He does not "toot his own horn" as so many people in his position would do.  I wish that everyone could spend time with him.  It is really an enlightening experience.

 

P.S.  Please don't bring up the Renaissance debacle as we don't really know the real story.  All we know is what we have read and a lot of that is simply inaccurate.  Look at what he has done with Oceania and Regent.  New ships - better food - spending millions of dollars to keep their ships in tip-top shape, etc. There is one man (currently in a high position with NCLH) that has a winery.  He once created a wine that he named after Frank.  It is named "Benevolent Dictator".  That fits him to a "t".

In my opinion Mr. FDR is the best cruise exec. to come long in the last 20 years, bar none.    Is your man with the winery named Bob?  Thought I heard about that a few years ago. 

[Travelcat2]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

In my opinion Mr. FDR is the best cruise exec. to come long in the last 20 years, bar none.    Is your man with the winery named Bob?  Thought I heard about that a few years ago. 

 

Yep!

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

Any more background regarding Renaissance cruise line? We sailed  several times before it went bankrupt. Loved their ships,  which some went to Oceania and some to Princess. 
I never read about what happened except I wasn’t surprised, considering their prices and inclusions. 
sheila

[RJB]

15 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

Had to look up dates but here it goes:

 

Oceania was founded by Frank Del Rio, Robin Lindsay, James Rodriguez, Jeff Drew and Howard Sherman in 2002.

 

Prestige Cruise Holdings purchased Regent (and I think Oceania) in February 2008 for $1B.  Frank was already CEO of Oceania and became CEO of Regent while Mark Conroy remained President (IMHO the best President that Regent ever had).

 

In September 2014, NCLH purchased both companies for $3.05B.  Frank did not take over the role as CEO of NCLH until either late December 2014 or January 2015.  Not too long thereafter he decided to have a CEO/President of each brand.  

 

All of this is pubic information and can be verified.  As you likely noticed, I was a bit unclear about Oceania and PCH.  It is difficult to do research with two cats on my lap.  Hope this answers your question.

I do believe that Joe Watters the former President of Crystal Cruises  came on board in Jan. 2003 as Chairman of Oceania.

[Travelcat2]

9 minutes ago, RJB said:

I do believe that Joe Watters the former President of Crystal Cruises  came on board in Jan. 2003 as Chairman of Oceania.

 

I tried looking it up again.  Frank is listed as Co-Founder of Oceania cruises since 01/2002 - Present.  I did find Joe Watters as "Chairman of Oceania" but am not sure what that that means.  Typically a CEO is called a CEO rather than a "Chairman".  I am not familiar with this designation.  Frank was "Chairman/CEO of Prestige Cruise Holdings until 11/2014.  

 

In any case, while I may never figure it out, you and I are in agreement with how he has done in the past 20 years.

[rallydave]

Chairman is often called COB or chairman of the board of directors   Not an officer of the company like president CEO etc. 

[travelwell]

I am a huge FDR fan. He actively responded to posts when I discovered Cruise Critic around 2006. We were mainstream cruisers at that time and his response to a personal Oceania question at that time made us think Oceania would be a step up. 100% due to his response we gave Oceania a try. I wrote a glowing review  with the exception of an issue at the time in the main dining room. He personally responded to that glitch saying he would look into it. As we had such a good time and felt big step up from mainstream we wondered about Regent. We gave Regent a try and it changed the way we cruise. I can really say he changed the trajectory of our cruising life as we left saying if Regent did a world cruise we would be on it when we retired. We have our Regent WC booked. So impressed with his very hands on business skill that when we were discussing with family what celebrity or interesting person you would love at have at your table for dinner his name came up (along with Barbara Bush and Bill Gates😉).

[mrlevin]

1 hour ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Any more background regarding Renaissance cruise line? We sailed  several times before it went bankrupt. Loved their ships,  which some went to Oceania and some to Princess. 
I never read about what happened except I wasn’t surprised, considering their prices and inclusions. 
sheila

 

Here is cruise critic story on Renaissance bankruptcy from September 2001:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=349

 

Mr. del Rio was fired by Renaissance as co-CEO in April of 2001 so he wasn't actually around when they entered bankruptcy; he, however, was involved in the extensive debt that they had acquired.

 

Marc

[Dolebludger]

Marc,

 

Thanks for posting the link to the Ren bankruptcy. One thing that wasn't mentioned is that Radisson (now Regent) offered good deals for those who had been booked on Ren, and didn't require proof of financial loss. This means that those who had booked on Ren, followed the news, and were spooked and canceled before any loss was incurred were eligible for the Radisson deals too. Many were introduced to Radisson/Regent this way and became "regulars" like we did. 

 

I personally know nothing about Mr. del Rio, and have heard much good about him. Our Radisson/Regent cruises under his leadership have been great, as they were under Mr. Conroy. I am sure that he is not at any fault for whatever problems NCLH may be having now and in the future. No business can survive long with a severe drop in customers -- or total elimination thereof -- regardless of skill of management. 

 

One thing I am curious about is what happened to the two small "yacht-like" ships?  

[Travelcat2]

40 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Here is cruise critic story on Renaissance bankruptcy from September 2001:

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=349

 

Mr. del Rio was fired by Renaissance as co-CEO in April of 2001 so he wasn't actually around when they entered bankruptcy; he, however, was involved in the extensive debt that they had acquired.

 

Marc

 

Keep in mind that a lot of what we read is not accurate*.  If he was doing such a bad job, how did he bring Oceania to the point that it is today?  Please don't use Jason Montague as the person that made the cruise line succeed as he was not even mentioned as part of the group that started the cruise line.  Not saying that he didn't help but FDR was running the show which is why, to this day, Oceania is his "baby").   It took a while for Frank to "almost" consider Regent to be as close to his heart as Oceania is.  Once he started doing refurbishments on the ships, Regent grew on him and I believe that he is very happy with how Regent was doing. Plus, why wasn't Jason Montague a first (or second or third) choice of becoming President of Regent?  It was not until others left that he got the position.  Jason is a numbers man (as is Frank).  

 

Lest it sound as if I only can say good things about FDR, I felt that he was clueless in terms of what Regent/luxury cruisers wanted when he first became CEO of Regent.  When he took over, I was not happy - I wanted Marc Conroy to be in that position.  However, FDR learned quickly and now thoroughly understands luxury, premium-plus and mainstream cruise lines.  I feel the same about Jason.  Both Jason and FDR have been more than a bit harsh when they posted on CC, so, IMHO, it is best that both of them stay the heck off of the Regent board!

 

*If you think about everything that has been written/stated by the news media and the government over the past couple of months, I think you will find most of it to be inaccurate.  We are likely all guilty of believing things that are spun into stories that may hold a grain of truth but are far from being honest.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Travelcat2

[mrlevin]

Jackie, here is article I found a while back regarding Mr. del Rio's talk about starting Oceania and the role of Jason:

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Travel-Agent-Issues/Agents-get-brand-building-advice-from-Frank-Del-Rio

 

Marc

[Travelcat2]

7 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Jackie, here is article I found a while back regarding Mr. del Rio's talk about starting Oceania and the role of Jason:

 

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Travel-Agent-Issues/Agents-get-brand-building-advice-from-Frank-Del-Rio

 

Marc

 

I could hear his voice in my head when I read that.  I am not disputing that he was fired - just did not know Jason's role.  Now I get it - he was able to get money to launch the brand.  As mentioned, both Jason and Frank are money men (I believe that FDR is a CPA and Jason likely is as well).  Being a CPA does not automatically mean that you would be the best person to build/run a cruise line but in Frank's case, he was able to do it.  I do feel that Jason is doing a good job for Regent - I just do not have the same connection with him that I do with Frank.  The last time I saw Frank, he said that he "no longer runs a cruise line".  Rather, "he is in charge of people that run cruise lines".  While he did not say so, I believe that he enjoyed the actual running of a cruise line more.

 

As a side note, when NCLH purchased Regent and Oceania they were horrible to Frank and his team.  They even fired his brother and walked him out the door (no secret - he has talked about this quite openly).  I believe (but do not know) that Frank was ready to walk out of the door when he suddenly became CEO/President of NCLH.  He took on the challenge - visited every single NCL ship - was involved in their refurbishments and ultimately chose a CEO/President that had worked for NCL for a long time.  In my opinion, Regent would not exist as it is today if it were not for FDR.

[mrlevin]

Don't get me started about del Rio's brother; glad to hear that he is gone.

 

In addition to the article, had some nice chats with Jason when we both sailed with him in 2017; a very humble man that has learned an awful lot about the cruise industry though on the job training.

 

Marc

Edited April 18, 2020 by mrlevin

[Travelcat2]

11 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Don't get me started about del Rio's brother; glad to hear that he is gone.

 

In addition to the article, had some long chats with Jason when we both sailed with him in 2017; a very humble man that has learned an awful lot about the cruise industry though on the job training.

 

Marc

 

He isn't gone - he was rehired after the former CEO of NCHL was dumped.  I have met him and his family and he seems nice but I really do not know him.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Travelcat2

[mrlevin]

1 minute ago, Travelcat2 said:

 

He isn't gone - he was rehired after the former CEOK of NCHL was dumped.  I have met him and his family and he seems nice but I really do not know him.

 

Hopefully they found another job for him far away from controlling shore excursions and destination staff.

[Travelcat2]

7 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

Hopefully they found another job for him far away from controlling shore excursions and destination staff.

 

Would love to respond to that .......... but not on CC.

[B-2-Bs Best!]

I believe it's his son , not his brother.