And now Alaska is going to quarantine visitors.

[yorky]

11 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Did you post the wrong chart by mistake? That chart provides a comparative distribution by age but doesn't answer the question posed by @PTC DAWG on the number of people a year who die from the flu.

World health organisation state between 250/500 000 a year I believe. Without any form of lockdown with Covid we would be into the millions.

[oneputt18]

11 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Did you post the wrong chart by mistake? That chart provides a comparative distribution by age but doesn't answer the question posed by @PTC DAWG on the number of people a year who die from the flu.

In the US, 36 million have gotten the flu and 22 thousand have died, as of March 13th.

[Blackduck59]

Comparing this thing to the "Flu" is a fools errand, IT'S NOT THE FLU. While there are considerably more cases of the flu world wid,e every year and numerically more deaths; COVID 19 is far more contagious and the mortality rate is exponentially higher.

I don't condone panic or paranoia, I do think a proper amount of respect is due. The total disregard of so many people, especially young people, that this is a problem is concerning to everyone who is trying to do their part to slow it down. In Canada we are following the scientists for the most part. In the United States there seems to be a total lack of leadership when the "story" coming out of their leaders changes from "it's a Hoax" to" it's Obama's fault" to "it will just go away".. a different fable by the hour.

With the cruise companys trying to deal with the first group of cancellations and now the second batch they are pretty busy. I also think that their call centers will be short staffed with some of those employees thinking the risk of being crammed into that environment might not be worth the pay they are receiving. When Canada said the ports are closed until at least July 1st that should have been a clear signal that if you were booked on an Alaska cruise before then it would be cancelled. No Canadian ports no Alaska cruises. I have to think those that waited were looking for a better deal for the cancellation.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, yorky said:

World health organisation state between 250/500 000 a year I believe. Without any form of lockdown with Covid we would be into the millions.

 

2 hours ago, oneputt18 said:

In the US, 36 million have gotten the flu and 22 thousand have died, as of March 13th.

LOL. I should have made myself a bit more clear, as I wasn't actually seeking this information, I was simply trying to signal to @Provence55always that he posted the wrong chart. Thank you both anyway, and I agree @yorky, lockdowns are a necessity in the fight against the spread of the coronavirus..

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Did you post the wrong chart by mistake? That chart provides a comparative distribution by age but doesn't answer the question posed by @PTC DAWG on the number of people a year who die from the flu.

 

I think that chart was meant to show that at worse case scenario, the flu kills .83% of elderly patients whereas Covid kills up to almost 15% of the most elderly patients. The only reason Covid numbers have not outpaced the flu numbers are due to the length of time it has been circulating (months as opposed to a hundred + years with the flu), therefore it is slowly moving into community spread mode in different geographical location as opposed to the flu which has been in widespread community spread mode, and the fact that every government is imposing severe community measures to limit spread to suppress the numbers of infected

[Covepointcruiser]

I am really glad we don’t live in Israel or plan to visit in the future.   The Jerusalem Post has stated that patients who are 60 and over will not be connected to ventilators.   That is not a great way to deal with an “elderly” 60 year old.   I would not want to get sick in that country!

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

On 3/24/2020 at 8:59 PM, Jim_Iain said:

 

And how many people refuse to get vaccinated for the "Common" Flu?

 

And I’ll bet a lot of those people will be pushing their way to first in line if a COVID-19 one gets made and approved. 

[Blackduck59]

24 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

And I’ll bet a lot of those people will be pushing their way to first in line if a COVID-19 one gets made and approved. 

 

I don't know how to quote the first part of this which read "how many people refuse to get vaccinated for the "Common Flu"

 

Well it is sad to know that there are a large group of people who still believe a long ago debunked report by a failed doctor linking well proven effective vaccines to Autism. His report was fiction, but still there are the antivaxers; now we have them to thank for a resurgence of many diseases long thought to be eradicated. It boggles the mind how some people will cling to the word of one individual, even after they have been proven wrong at every level.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

1 hour ago, Blackduck59 said:

 

I don't know how to quote the first part of this which read "how many people refuse to get vaccinated for the "Common Flu"

 

Well it is sad to know that there are a large group of people who still believe a long ago debunked report by a failed doctor linking well proven effective vaccines to Autism. His report was fiction, but still there are the antivaxers; now we have them to thank for a resurgence of many diseases long thought to be eradicated. It boggles the mind how some people will cling to the word of one individual, even after they have been proven wrong at every level.

 

And even after HE said it was incorrect!

 

I am with you 100%.

[Nimbet]

I’m all in for the 125% FCC. 

[acesneights99]

1 hour ago, Nimbet said:

I’m all in for the 125% FCC. 

If RCCL doesn't file for bankruptcy. If it does your 125% FCC will be worthless.

 

Negative shareholder equity, huge cash burn and no new bookings.

[Nimbet]

19 minutes ago, acesneights99 said:

If RCCL doesn't file for bankruptcy. If it does your 125% FCC will be worthless.

 

Negative shareholder equity, huge cash burn and no new bookings.

I’m all in for the 125% FCC. 

Your response makes good sense. I already lost a lot on RCCL stock.. 

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 3/24/2020 at 1:51 PM, Fouremco said:

I totally agree about passengers needing to take responsibility and making their own decisions. Unfortunately, I think that there are a lot of passengers who simply don't seem to understand the realities of such things as closed ports, closed borders, enforced isolation and the fact the COVID-19 won't disappear and all returns to normal in a couple of weeks.

 

While you are 100% correct that they are struggling to keep up with the current volume of cancellations, I still think that it's incumbent upon them to announce the cancellation of cruises that they know full well will never sail. They could do so with an accompanying announcement that, due to the unprecedented situation, refunds and/or FCC's would be delayed by "x" many weeks or months, and that in the meantime, they will be working on establishing replacement itineraries. 

 

It's not really the volume of cancellations.  It's the refunds they are trying, rather not trying, to deal with.  They don't have the funds to refund paid-for cruises while trying to keep their ships afloat (pun intended).  If cruise lines state that cruises for this year are canceled that adds a huge financial burden on the line.   Keep "kicking that can" down the road, not informing customers, keeps the myth alive that cruising is coming back sooner than later at the same level it was pre-COVID-19.  Thus the pressure and incentives to take FCC, even at 125 percent.  Sound like a good deal, but it really isn't.  The money is just not there.  Providing FCC costs nothing.  In fact, FCC "disappears" if the cruise line goes into financial restructuring: real creditors are first in line.

 

 

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 

It's not really the volume of cancellations.  It's the refunds they are trying, rather not trying, to deal with.  They don't have the funds to refund paid-for cruises while trying to keep their ships afloat (pun intended).  If cruise lines state that cruises for this year are canceled that adds a huge financial burden on the line.   Keep "kicking that can" down the road, not informing customers, keeps the myth alive that cruising is coming back sooner than later at the same level it was pre-COVID-19.  Thus the pressure and incentives to take FCC, even at 125 percent.  Sound like a good deal, but it really isn't.  The money is just not there.  Providing FCC costs nothing.  In fact, FCC "disappears" if the cruise line goes into financial restructuring: real creditors are first in line.

 

 

Yes, both the poster to whom I was responding and I were well aware of the fact that it not the cancellations per se but the resulting refunds/FCCs that pose the problem.

 

BTW, my post was written over a month ago. Given the speed with which things are changing, I'm not sure that there is a lot of benefit in critiquing old posts. We are all in possession of information today that simply wasn't available then. For example, I stated that "it's incumbent upon them to announce the cancellation of cruises that they know full well will never sail." To that point in time, Celebrity had made only a single, belated cancellation of cruises, while many other were left on the books that were obviously never going to sail either. As we know today, subsequent to my post Celebrity finally made a second cut. Furthermore, given the CDC's direction, also not available at the time of my post, Celebrity will undoubtedly make further cuts. Obviously, had I known on March 24 what I know on April 25, my response at that time would have been worded somewhat differently.

 

 

[llawrence]

Won’t FCC  ultimately catch up with the cruise lines......with all the FCC out there...cruisers will not be paying anything while the lines expenses will continue..fuel,food, etc.

[Fouremco]

2 hours ago, llawrence said:

Won’t FCC  ultimately catch up with the cruise lines......with all the FCC out there...cruisers will not be paying anything while the lines expenses will continue..fuel,food, etc.

The FCCs as a form of payment will be spread out over the next two years. Refunds, even at the current slow pace, would be spread out over the next two to three months. That's a huge difference when faced wither current financial situation.

[NantahalaCruiser]

22 hours ago, Fouremco said:

The FCCs as a form of payment will be spread out over the next two years. Refunds, even at the current slow pace, would be spread out over the next two to three months. That's a huge difference when faced wither current financial situation.

Plus they will be getting the cash deposits since FCC cannot be used to pay for the deposits.

[Fouremco]

23 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Plus they will be getting the cash deposits since FCC cannot be used to pay for the deposits.

Good point. We have a cruise already booked for next March that we would like to apply our FCCs to, but in many cases, people are having to make new bookings and make those cash deposits as you say.