4 deaths on HALs Zaandam

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Four dead, 138 sick on Holland America's MS Zaandam cruise in limbo amid coronavirus crisis
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/03/27/coronavirus-4-dead-138-sick-holland-america-cruise-limbo/2927031001/

[MMDown Under]

2 hours ago, Kiwi Kruzer said:

Four dead, 138 sick on Holland America's MS Zaandam cruise in limbo amid coronavirus crisis
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/03/27/coronavirus-4-dead-138-sick-holland-america-cruise-limbo/2927031001/

Such sad news first thing in the morning.  Sounds like HAL was on the ball with medical assistance, transferring passengers over 70 and people in inside cabins to Rotterdam.  

I wonder if our Govt knew of this situation, when a decision was made to reverse WA Govt's. decision and let one of the ships off WA to dock and allow arrangements to be made to repatriate foreign passengers.  

[Pushka]

I'm not sure if this is a correct assessment or not, but while there was discussion about the risks of flying, I haven't heard of any case where catching a plane has resulted in transmission, as opposed to cruiselines which have been a major source of bringing infections in, especially in Australia. How on earth can the cruiselines recover? I love cruises, but cannot imagine setting foot on one again for a very long time, if ever. 
 

I cannot imagine the medical staff having the capacity to deal with a major outbreak like this onboard. 
 

85 crew members are ill. Awful. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pushka

[Kiwi Kruzer]

8 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I'm not sure if this is a correct assessment or not, but while there was discussion about the risks of flying, I haven't heard of any case where catching a plane has resulted in transmission, as opposed to cruiselines which have been a major source of bringing infections in, especially in Australia. How on earth can the cruiselines recover? I love cruises, but cannot imagine setting foot on one again for a very long time, if ever. 
 

I cannot imagine the medical staff having the capacity to deal with a major outbreak like this onboard. 
 

85 crew members are ill. Awful. 

I think that sums it up . 
Cruising will take a long , long time to recover to the heights we have known and enjoyed .......if ever.

[nnps]

Very sad news. One would have to question the wisdom (of passengers and cruise line) of embarking on March 7th as reported. I'm reasonably sure I would have cancelled at that time. Perhaps the mixed messages being given by the American media (and their President) bears some responsibility.

 

While not belittling the tragedy, I think it's fair to remind ourselves that cruise ships do have morgues on board for a reason. I remember my first reactions to being told that every cruise expects to have a number of deaths during the cruise. On reflection it made sense. Unfortunately a large number of cruise ship patrons are at highest risk for this virus. 

[Pushka]

3 hours ago, nnps said:

Very sad news. One would have to question the wisdom (of passengers and cruise line) of embarking on March 7th as reported. I'm reasonably sure I would have cancelled at that time. Perhaps the mixed messages being given by the American media (and their President) bears some responsibility.

 

While not belittling the tragedy, I think it's fair to remind ourselves that cruise ships do have morgues on board for a reason. I remember my first reactions to being told that every cruise expects to have a number of deaths during the cruise. On reflection it made sense. Unfortunately a large number of cruise ship patrons are at highest risk for this virus. 

Yes of course. And people die on cruises, especially World Cruises, all the time. From Heart Attacks, strokes and the like. QM2 has four, maybe 6 Fridges. But other passengers are safe.  But this is a rampant, insidious virus that can get anyone. And that's the big difference here. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pushka

[MMDown Under]

11 minutes ago, nnps said:

Very sad news. One would have to question the wisdom (of passengers and cruise line) of embarking on March 7th as reported. I'm reasonably sure I would have cancelled at that time. Perhaps the mixed messages being given by the American media (and their President) bears some responsibility.

 

While not belittling the tragedy, I think it's fair to remind ourselves that cruise ships do have morgues on board for a reason. I remember my first reactions to being told that every cruise expects to have a number of deaths during the cruise. On reflection it made sense. Unfortunately a large number of cruise ship patrons are at highest risk for this virus. 

I remember at a Captain and Senior Officers Q&A, I asked "was it true that, when cruise ships stopped in the night, passengers who had died were buried at sea".  Response was they have a morgue for that purpose. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by MMDown Under

[MMDown Under]

3 hours ago, Kiwi Kruzer said:

Four dead, 138 sick on Holland America's MS Zaandam cruise in limbo amid coronavirus crisis
 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/03/27/coronavirus-4-dead-138-sick-holland-america-cruise-limbo/2927031001/

53 passengers and 85 crew!

How many crew were reported to have died on Diamond Princess?

[nnps]

1 minute ago, MMDown Under said:

53 passengers and 85 crew!

How many crew were reported to have died on Diamond Princess?

The crew would be more susceptible than passengers I would imagine. Their living conditions would be so much more cramped.

[Pushka]

3 hours ago, nnps said:

The crew would be more susceptible than passengers I would imagine. Their living conditions would be so much more cramped.

I remember during the Diamond fiasco, the crew were not thought to be a risk health wise, because they were young. Interesting theory, while in the main they may not experience serious health issues, they sure as heck can still pass it on. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pushka

[lyndarra]

46 minutes ago, Pushka said:

I'm not sure if this is a correct assessment or not, but while there was discussion about the risks of flying, I haven't heard of any case where catching a plane has resulted in transmission, as opposed to cruiselines which have been a major source of bringing infections in, especially in Australia.

 

It  would be very naive to think it hasn't happened. IMO the carriers that brought the virus onto the Ruby (and other ships) flew in from other countries. It's entirely possible others on their flights could pick up the infection then disappear into the landscape once on the ground.

[Pushka]

3 hours ago, lyndarra said:

It  would be very naive to think it hasn't happened. IMO the carriers that brought the virus onto the Ruby (and other ships) flew in from other countries. It's entirely possible others on their flights could pick up the infection then disappear into the landscape once on the ground.

Yes, it just hasn't been mentioned though. I remember back in January - seems like a lifetime ago now - the original arrivals from Wuhan arrived on International and domestic flights. There were alerts issued, but we never saw any increase in positive tests to others as a result. I agree that it was likely overseas travellers arriving on planes that transmitted the virus onto ships. It's why no testing currently available can accurately assess whether someone has the illness when boarding. Especially in countries where the virus was obviously rampant but not tested. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Pushka

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, Pushka said:

I'm not sure if this is a correct assessment or not, but while there was discussion about the risks of flying, I haven't heard of any case where catching a plane has resulted in transmission, as opposed to cruiselines which have been a major source of bringing infections in, especially in Australia. How on earth can the cruiselines recover? I love cruises, but cannot imagine setting foot on one again for a very long time, if ever. 
 

I cannot imagine the medical staff having the capacity to deal with a major outbreak like this onboard. 
 

85 crew members are ill. Awful. 

Sorry Pushka I can't follow your response.  Is this in relation to the newspaper article from USA Today?

[MMDown Under]

1 hour ago, nnps said:

The crew would be more susceptible than passengers I would imagine. Their living conditions would be so much more cramped.

Yes, I agree.  Yes, in my younger days, I got to visit crew quarters once.

[Pushka]

3 hours ago, MMDown Under said:

Sorry Pushka I can't follow your response.  Is this in relation to the newspaper article from USA Today?

Probably more just a general comment as to whether planes or cruises have more potential to spread the virus. Originally the attention was all about planes but we haven't heard much more of that once Diamond became involved. The risk profile seems to have morphed to Cruises. 

[MMDown Under]

1 minute ago, Pushka said:

Probably more just a general comment as to whether planes or cruises have more potential to spread the virus. Originally the attention was all about planes but we haven't heard much more of that once Diamond became involved. The risk profile seems to have morphed to Cruises. 

Thank you 

[NSWP]

9 minutes ago, MMDown Under said:

Yes, I agree.  Yes, in my younger days, I got to visit crew quarters once.

Wink Wink, for a clandestine moment. 😅

[MMDown Under]

1 minute ago, NSWP said:

Wink Wink, for a clandestine moment. 😅

No, curiosity. 

They were more innocent days.

[possum52]

I think most of Victoria's cases are people arriving by plane and passing it onto contacts, certainly there will be some now from the Ruby but don't know how many.  If you are sitting on a plane for a long haul flight it is quite probable if there is an infected passenger sitting within a few rows, you will have quite a high chance of contracting the virus from them.

 

Leigh

[Aus Traveller]

1 hour ago, MMDown Under said:

I remember at a Captain and Senior Officers Q&A, I asked "was it true that, when cruise ships stopped in the night, passengers who had died were buried at sea".  Response was they have a morgue for that purpose. 

Until around 40 years ago relatives of people who died were offered the option to have the deceased buried at sea. This was carried out close to dawn. However, after new environmental protocols were brought in, this has no longer available been available.

[Aus Traveller]

10 minutes ago, possum52 said:

I think most of Victoria's cases are people arriving by plane and passing it onto contacts, certainly there will be some now from the Ruby but don't know how many.  If you are sitting on a plane for a long haul flight it is quite probable if there is an infected passenger sitting within a few rows, you will have quite a high chance of contracting the virus from them.

 

Leigh

Agreed. In other information we are told that if you are in an enclosed space with an infected person for 15 minutes or more you are at risk. What about sitting beside someone for 16 hours or so? I read that authorities are trying to trace people who were on the Virgin flight from Sydney to Adelaide that carried some of the passengers from the Ruby who were infected.

 

There is no way I am getting on a plane, even for a fairly short flight. Of course, very few planes are flying anyway. 🙂

 

In today's Australian newspaper, there are reports that people who returned from a ski holiday in Aspen USA passed the virus on to many people in the Noosa area when they visited for a birthday party. They stayed in a local hotel and visited other restaurants and bars. At least four staff of the restaurant where the party was held have now been diagnosed positive.

 

There is another report relating to other people who returned from Aspen and went to a cocktail party held by the Timbertop School in Victoria. The virus was passed on to several others.

[MMDown Under]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Until around 40 years ago relatives of people who died were offered the option to have the deceased buried at sea. This was carried out close to dawn. However, after new environmental protocols were brought in, this has no longer available been available.

I thought I'd heard that happened somewhere, which is why I asked.  The silence was deafening!  

[LittleFish1976]

4 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agreed. In other information we are told that if you are in an enclosed space with an infected person for 15 minutes or more you are at risk. What about sitting beside someone for 16 hours or so? I read that authorities are trying to trace people who were on the Virgin flight from Sydney to Adelaide that carried some of the passengers from the Ruby who were infected.

 

There is no way I am getting on a plane, even for a fairly short flight. Of course, very few planes are flying anyway. 🙂

 

In today's Australian newspaper, there are reports that people who returned from a ski holiday in Aspen USA passed the virus on to many people in the Noosa area when they visited for a birthday party. They stayed in a local hotel and visited other restaurants and bars. At least four staff of the restaurant where the party was held have now been diagnosed positive.

 

There is another report relating to other people who returned from Aspen and went to a cocktail party held by the Timbertop School in Victoria. The virus was passed on to several others.

 

There are reports of a couple who have been frequenting the golf course and restaurants in the Portsea/ Sorrento area who have tested positive after returning from Aspen. Such arrogance and the papers are too frightened to name them. Apparently, the police have spoke to them several times.

 

[Aus Traveller]

13 minutes ago, LittleFish1976 said:

 

There are reports of a couple who have been frequenting the golf course and restaurants in the Portsea/ Sorrento area who have tested positive after returning from Aspen. Such arrogance and the papers are too frightened to name them. Apparently, the police have spoke to them several times.

 

Have they been going out even after testing positive??? There is no excuse for that. They should be fined.

 

We know that many people came from overseas with the virus (including my daughter-in-law's sister), but most would have followed the isolation rules. Unfortunately, they could have passed the virus on before they had the diagnosis.

[possum52]

25 minutes ago, Aus Traveller said:

Agreed. In other information we are told that if you are in an enclosed space with an infected person for 15 minutes or more you are at risk. What about sitting beside someone for 16 hours or so? I read that authorities are trying to trace people who were on the Virgin flight from Sydney to Adelaide that carried some of the passengers from the Ruby who were infected.

 

There is no way I am getting on a plane, even for a fairly short flight. Of course, very few planes are flying anyway. 🙂

 

In today's Australian newspaper, there are reports that people who returned from a ski holiday in Aspen USA passed the virus on to many people in the Noosa area when they visited for a birthday party. They stayed in a local hotel and visited other restaurants and bars. At least four staff of the restaurant where the party was held have now been diagnosed positive.

 

There is another report relating to other people who returned from Aspen and went to a cocktail party held by the Timbertop School in Victoria. The virus was passed on to several others.

It is the same group of 20 people who were in Aspen, who now have been spreading the virus all over the place evidently. Noosa, Toorak and Portsea. The Timbertop cocktail party was at Toorak - Timbertop is a campus of the Geeplong Grammar School and is situated near Mansfield at the foot of the Victorian Alps. Some have not stayed in quarantine even though they tested positive to Covid 19 according to media reports. At least one couple have been named.

 

Leigh

Edited March 28, 2020 by possum52