Majority of NCL ships are transitioning to cold layup (4/27/20)

[joeyancho]

5 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah....NJ/NY are in a whole different league as far as COVID 19.  NCL in particular is looking to cruise to Caribbean and Alaska in July.

 

Pretty well published that the cruise ships, at least initially, will sail at 50%-60% capacity.  Buffets are only going to be served by crew.  Boarding will take longer as there will be more stringent passenger health scrutiny, every time passenger and crew disembark and then re-embark.

 

Anyone 70 and over will require a Dr’s note to sail.  There’s even talk that EVERYONE will have to have a Dr’s note stating they are in good health to board.  

 

Having done Behind the Scenes tours, I can say that cruise ships are some of the cleanest areas of anywhere I’ve ever been (including my own home, which I’m fastidious about).  Now, it’s going to be even more stringent.

 

There might be some ports that the ships won’t go, just because they might pose a risk.

 

Many more processes going on that you can find.  But, the ones above are a start.  

 

Hope that answers your question! 

Can you please explain how the cruise line will prevent someone who is asymptomatic from getting on a ship and passing the virus.  Social distancing is impossible on a ship. It does not matter how clean the ship is or how many times you wash and sanitize your hands if someone sneezes on the elevator or exiting the theater or touches a surface after scratching their nose.  

Edited April 29, 2020 by joeyancho

[graphicguy]

@@joeyancho

 

The process of boarding that I read stated temps would be taken of all passengers and crew.  In addition, more screening would be done by observing the state of the passenger and crew....looking for coughs, shortness of breath, etc.

 

From the CDC...

 

”The main way the disease spreads is through respiratory droplets expelled by someone who is coughing. The risk of catching COVID-19 from someone with NO SYMPTOMS is very low”.

 

 

[fstuff1]

14 hours ago, krisdamom said:

Thank you to fstuff1 and EscapeFromConneticut for the helpful information & associated links you have posted re NCL & "cold layup".  After investigating these links and the term  "cold layup" itself, I found myself at the site for 'Cruise Industry News' with many helpful articles. As I scrolled down the list of articles, I saw this from a posting from yesterday, April 27, 2020, entitled 'When Norwegian Cruise Lines May return to Service'  : "A look at the expected first sailing of each Norwegian Cruise Line ship as the cruise industry gets back into service (all information is subject to change due to the COVID-19 crisis)" 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/22834-when-norwegian-cruise-line-ships-may-return-to-service.html

 

 

Bliss July 5?!

that list has to be wrong since the CDC no sail order lasts till July 24

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

25 minutes ago, fstuff1 said:

 

Bliss July 5?!

that list has to be wrong since the CDC no sail order lasts till July 24

Yes, it looks like that site just typed in NCL's published schedule.

The cruise lines have to keep those schedules posted, of course, so they can keep collecting deposits. They'll announce cancellations closer to departure time .... and it's not just NCL, all of the major names are doing this.
 

Given conditions in Italy and Spain, this one is the most far-fetched of the whole lineup:

Norwegian Epic
Date: July 1, 2020
Homeport: Civitavecchia
Length: 7 nights
Itinerary: Livorno, Cannes, Palma de Mallorca, Barcelona and Naples

[graphicguy]

This is from Royal Caribbean's Web site, but I see this being the "new normal", for at least the foreseeable future, for all cruise lines.

 

If you want to cruise, here are the reqs.....

 

"

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Health Protocols

We are closely monitoring global developments regarding the coronavirus (COVID-19), and we are being proactive when it comes to protecting the health of our guests, crew, and the communities where we sail.

To comply with guidance from CDC, WHO, public health authorities around the world, and the Cruise Lines International Association (CLIA), we are enhancing our rigorous global boarding and screening measures to protect our guests and crew. These measures are intentionally conservative and apply to anyone boarding our ships, guests and crew alike. We apologize for the inconvenience created by these precautionary measures.

These temporary safety precautions will remain in place for a projected period of 30 days and will continued to be reviewed daily. Updates will be posted daily on this website.

Until further notice, all ships in the Royal Caribbean International fleet will adopt the following health screening protocols:

Mandatory temperature screenings using digital, non-touch scanners are being conducted with guests, crewmembers, and visitors on embarkation day prior to boarding any vessel. If temperature registers about 100.4°F (38°C), the person and his/her travel companions will be referred to a secondary health screening.

Guests who are denied boarding due to screening results will receive compensation.

COVID-19 presents the most serious health risks to older individuals, the immunocompromised, and those with serious, underlying medical conditions. Therefore,

a.  Effective Monday, March 16, boarding will be denied to any person age 70 or older, unless the guest provides written verification from a qualified treating physician that certifies the person has no severe, chronic medical condition and is fit to travel.

b. Effective Friday, March 13, boarding will be denied to any person with a severe, chronic medical condition, including those specified by the CDC. Guests of all ages will be screened prior to boarding, regarding underlying health issues that may prevent them from sailing, i.e.  chronic heart, lung, liver, or kidney disease, diabetes, HIV/AIDS, or cancer.

Regardless of nationality, boarding will be denied to:

a.  Any person who has traveled from, to or through mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Europe (See list of restricted European countries below), Iran, or South Korea 15 days prior to embarkation.

b. Any person who has come in contact with anyone with 15-day prior travel to mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Europe (See list of restricted European countries below), Iran, or South Korea. The CDC characterizes contact with an individual as coming within six feet (2M) of a person.

c. Any person who within 15 days prior to embarkation, has had contact with, or helped care for, anyone suspected or diagnosed as having COVID-19, or who are currently subject to health monitoring for possible exposure to COVID-19.

d. For Caribbean Itineraries Only: The above parameters will also include Japan, Singapore and Taiwan, along with travel or contact occurring 21 days prior to embarkation.

Secondary, enhanced health screenings will be performed on:

a. Any person who reports feeling unwell or displays flu-like symptoms.

b. Any person who has traveled from, to or through Japan or Thailand in the 15 days prior to embarkation.

c. Any person who is uncertain about contact with individuals who have traveled in the 15 days prior to embarkation from, to or through mainland China, Hong Kong, Macau, Europe (See list of restricted European countries below), Iran, South Korea, Japan, or Thailand.

d. For Caribbean Itineraries Only: Secondary health screening parameters will include the country of Thailand for travel or contact occurring 21 days prior to embarkation.

In some cases, guests presenting certain symptoms in the specialized health screenings may be denied boarding.

All guests who are denied boarding due to these restrictions will receive compensation.

Additional restrictions may be imposed based on local circumstances. For example, certain countries may deny visas or prohibit entry based on travel history or nationality.

We have rigorous medical protocols in place to help guests and crew members who feel unwell while sailing. Our protocols include professional medical treatment; isolation of unwell individuals from the general ship population; and intensified ship cleaning, air filtration, and sanitization procedures.

We are assessing developments constantly and will update these measures as needed.

Guests with questions may contact the customer care departments of our individual cruise lines or their travel professionals.

 

Restricted Schengen Area Countries

 

Austria	Finland	Iceland	Luxembourg	Portugal
Belgium	France	Italy	Malta	Slovakia
Czech Republic	Germany	Latvia	Netherlands	Slovenia
Denmark	Greece	Liechtenstein	Norway	Spain
Estonia	Hungary	Lithuania	Poland	Sweden
				Switzerland"

[boatseller]

Don't get too hung up on terms like 'warm' or 'cold' layup as absolutes.

 

It's far more likely each ship will be stored using different criteria depending on where it is, cost to store, ability repatriate crew, forecast demand, revenue capability and other criteria.

[PortFees45]

NCL wouldn't do any cold layups unless they expected the ships to be idle until 6 months from now at the earliest. 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, graphicguy said:

This is from Royal Caribbean's Web site, but I see this being the "new normal", for at least the foreseeable future, for all cruise lines.

 

If you want to cruise, here are the reqs.....

That's old information from March before the cruise lines shut down. NCL had similar requirements. 

There's no way to say exactly what the new requirements will be when cruising resumes. Under the CDC no-sail order before being allowed to resume operations cruise lines will be required to have approved plans to "help prevent, mitigate and respond to the spread of COVID-19".

 

As of today no one has seen what those plans will be.

[graphicguy]

The question was asked, what are the cruise lines doing to mitigate transmission of COVID-19.  I quoted what one (and probably all) cruise lines are doing to accommodate those who will cruise regarding safeguarding the health of crew and passengers.

 

Can/will this change?  I would imagine so.  They may tweak it here and there.  But, I quoted the guidelines they plan to follow!

[oteixeira]

15 hours ago, hallux said:

 

Geez, all I was doing was providing a video where I saw a comparison of warm and cold layup of ships.  Did the video provide any info on that?  Some people still didn't seem to understand the terminology, I was trying to provide them some info on that, I don't feel the hostility is warranted.

Hallux,

   This was not meant as a slight on you, but on the video itself.  There are better resources out there for what warm vs. cold layup are, and I just wanted to point out that this person you linked includes far too much political stuff in his videos, that is all I was pointing out.  If it somehow offended you, then I offer my apologies.

Edited April 29, 2020 by oteixeira

[njhorseman]

37 minutes ago, graphicguy said:

The question was asked, what are the cruise lines doing to mitigate transmission of COVID-19.  I quoted what one (and probably all) cruise lines are doing to accommodate those who will cruise regarding safeguarding the health of crew and passengers.

 

Can/will this change?  I would imagine so.  They may tweak it here and there.  But, I quoted the guidelines they plan to follow!

No...you quoted the now outdated guidelines cooked up by CLIA in an attempt to convince the CDC that cruise lines should be allowed to continue operations.  They are not what the cruise lines  are doing, it's what they were doing before they had to shut down operations.

 

Under the CDC's order announced April 9 and made official by publication in the Federal Register on April 15  the cruise lines have to submit and receive approval of a whole new set of procedures in order to resume operations. While the new procedures may contain some of what you cited... even if they include all of what you cited... you can bet your bottom dollar that there's  a lot more you haven't yet seen that will be required...far more than a tweak. 

 

There has not been the slightest indication from either the cruise industry or the CDC that any of the industry's required new procedures have been approved. You can be sure that when they receive approval the cruise industry will be trumpeting it from the highest mountain top in order to convince people not to cancel their existing reservations and to make new bookings.

[graphicguy]

Assuming you're the approving body?  Give it a rest.  If you don't want to cruise, don't do it.  Again, I was asked what the cruise lines were doing to make their ships safer.  I quoted what they were doing.  Like it or don't.  

[OceanBlueWaters]

20 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Yeah....NJ/NY are in a whole different league as far as COVID 19.  NCL in particular is looking to cruise to Caribbean and Alaska in July.

 

Pretty well published that the cruise ships, at least initially, will sail at 50%-60% capacity.  Buffets are only going to be served by crew.  Boarding will take longer as there will be more stringent passenger health scrutiny, every time passenger and crew disembark and then re-embark.

 

Anyone 70 and over will require a Dr’s note to sail.  There’s even talk that EVERYONE will have to have a Dr’s note stating they are in good health to board.  

 

Having done Behind the Scenes tours, I can say that cruise ships are some of the cleanest areas of anywhere I’ve ever been (including my own home, which I’m fastidious about).  Now, it’s going to be even more stringent.

 

There might be some ports that the ships won’t go, just because they might pose a risk.

 

Many more processes going on that you can find.  But, the ones above are a start.  

 

Hope that answers your question! 

I posted this in another link about Doctor's Notes:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Lots of info out there. Male/African Americans are being hit hard.  Also obese people with diabetes fall into that category of deaths according to NY/NJ.

How do Cruise Lines put a form in place to protect themselves/passengers?  They don't!  Are you African-American, therefore you can not board since at higher risk?  What if over 70 years old and perfect health? Are you obese?!!  You can't board? 
Good grief. Civil Liberties.

No one should sign these forms. Screw these Cruise Lines who require it.  JMO.
Cruise Lines need to step up and PROVE how I/we will cruise again in safe conditions .
Good luck to all to who are persistent in cruising.  🙂

These forms will soon be nonexistent.  If they are required by Cruise Lines...count me out.
JMO 🙂"

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Having a "Doctor's Note" to certify I am fit to travel, does not ease me.  Another hassle which I don't want before I begin my vacation and it is truly discrimination. Also, Hispanics are being hit hard due to "language barrier".  NJ is a "Sanctuary State", and therefore NJ is spinning their wheels how to protect immigrants...

Once again, I applaud all those who want to cruise again and get on that first ship to sail! But in some States, getting food (while obeying arrows on the floor while shopping) is a priority at this point.

 

Behind-the-Scenes participant (in your Perks) qualifies you an Infection Control Specialist?  You have deemed everything is safe on behalf of Cruise Lines?  Just asking...

I promise I will not go out in public without a face mask, board a plane from NJ/NY, cough, sneeze, while trying to board a lovely ship in Miami with all those PAX  (6 feet apart) in order to board a cruise in 2020 (with no Guidelines).  Too much work and not even on my radar...

Safe travels and JMO 🙂

[PTC DAWG]

23 hours ago, OceanBlueWaters said:

Do you have a cruise booked for that time frame (July thru November)?  Are you a "Guinea Pig" who will venture on Cruise Ship with unknown restrictions?  Do you have inside info about guidelines? Crystal Ball?  Just wondering.. 

 

It's so easy for people to predict and it continuously hurts my ribs from laughing so much. LOL!

 

JMO

I do have a cruise booked in September, albeit on Celebrity.   I plan on sailing unless they tell Me before hand that I can’t leave my room...

[graphicguy]

Why do you keep asking the same question I give you the same answer to?  

 

Personally, if there are discriminations that are happening in this Cornona scenario, take it up with those who are doing the discrimination, not me.  I get the distinct feeling this virus does not discriminate.

 

I never claimed to be an Infection Control Specialist.

 

I welcome the letters attesting to my health status.  It will hold everyone to a higher status than the previous half page declaration signed upon embarkation (and bogus to all who signed it).  You don't have the Dr's sign off?  You don't cruise.  You have a fit of coughs or sneezes as you approach the embarkation doors?  You don't cruise.  You have a fever?  You don't cruise.  The rest is pretty easy to understand.

 

Can't help you regarding any group who has a language barrier.  That's their issue, not the cruise lines.

 

You prefer to not go out in public?  That's fine.  Your choice.  I believe there's a certain portion of the population that is going to be paranoid for the foreseeable future.  There are all sorts of bad stuff in the air.  Can't keep that from living life.

 

Point I made about taking the ships' tours, again, these ships are some of the cleanest venues I've ever seen.  I've been in their kitchens, their laundry, I've seen my room steward do a better job of cleaning than anyone I've ever seen. Now, it's going to be even cleaner.  That's the reason I mention it.

 

Thanks for the applause.  Don't need it.  I'm coming out of the other end of this in the next 4-6, maybe 8 weeks.  I'm just getting on with my life.

Edited April 29, 2020 by graphicguy

[graphicguy]

3 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

I do have a cruise booked in September, albeit on Celebrity.   I plan on sailing unless they tell Me before hand that I can’t leave my room...

I'm looking at October. I think they'll start sailing again around July.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Assuming you're the approving body?  Give it a rest.  If you don't want to cruise, don't do it.  Again, I was asked what the cruise lines were doing to make their ships safer.  I quoted what they were doing.  Like it or don't.  

I'm certainly not the approving body, but I did read the CDC's order and it doesn't take a genius to understand that the order will force cruise lines to do a lot more than what they were before. 

 

Here's a link to the order,  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other and in particular anyone who wants to get an idea of the scope of what will have to be done can read section 3, paragraphs a. through m. . Paragraph f. is particularly interesting because it requires, among other things, social distancing protocols. It's hard to imagine how a cruise ship operating anywhere near capacity could have adequate social distancing protocols.

 

Where did I say I don't want to cruise? I have 7 cruises scheduled for the winter of 2021 that I booked in July, 2019 and a haven't cancelled any of them. I will cruise, as long as I'm comfortable that it will be safe to do so.

[ECCruise]

10 hours ago, graphicguy said:

@@joeyancho

 

The process of boarding that I read stated temps would be taken of all passengers and crew.  In addition, more screening would be done by observing the state of the passenger and crew....looking for coughs, shortness of breath, etc.

 

From the CDC...

 

”The main way the disease spreads is through respiratory droplets expelled by someone who is coughing. The risk of catching COVID-19 from someone with NO SYMPTOMS is very low”.

 

 

Until they become symptomatic.  Which could very well happen the day after boarding.

[graphicguy]

1 hour ago, ECCruise said:

Until they become symptomatic.  Which could very well happen the day after boarding.

That’s true of your mailman who delivers your mail, or the clerk stocking the bread you just brought home from the grocery store, etc, etc.

 

Getting out of bed every morning can be perceived as a risk.

 

You’re going to be in fear the rest of your life if you try to cover every conceivable eventuality.  If a crew member sees someone with flu like symptoms, I’m sure they’ll report it immediately.

 

As it stands with the latest numbers I’ve seen, of the entire population of the United States, 3/10th of 1% have contracted COVID 19.  Of that 3/10th of 1%,  2/100th of those have died.  Actually, the number is less.  It’s .000173!!!!!!

 

So, will I be cautious?  Yes.  Am I fearful of being one of the .000173?  Nope!  Doesn’t meant it can’t happen.  It just means it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that it would.

Edited April 30, 2020 by graphicguy

[EscapeFromConnecticut]

5 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I'm certainly not the approving body, but I did read the CDC's order and it doesn't take a genius to understand that the order will force cruise lines to do a lot more than what they were before. 

 

Here's a link to the order,  https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2020/04/15/2020-07930/no-sail-order-and-suspension-of-further-embarkation-notice-of-modification-and-extension-and-other and in particular anyone who wants to get an idea of the scope of what will have to be done can read section 3, paragraphs a. through m. . Paragraph f. is particularly interesting because it requires, among other things, social distancing protocols. It's hard to imagine how a cruise ship operating anywhere near capacity could have adequate social distancing protocols.

 

Where did I say I don't want to cruise? I have 7 cruises scheduled for the winter of 2021 that I booked in July, 2019 and a haven't cancelled any of them. I will cruise, as long as I'm comfortable that it will be safe to do so.

 

thumbs up for actually reading the No Sail Order.

 

The distancing requirements will be hard logistically ... on the financial side, the requirement for hospital and rescue ships is severe (as it should be, of course)

 

 

 The cruise lines would also be spending a ton to provide fully vetted & pre-arranged plans for onboard medical care, quarantine and repatriation. (This requirement is fully justified considering the companies' hideous performances from February into April, but the point is that it would be very costly to meet) 

 

There are huge, huge barriers to the resumption of cruising, yet the "optimists" continue acting as if a couple Purell stations & maybe some waiters behind the buffet stations are the big deal.

 

oh well, I'm extremely content to revisit this in July to see who was right.

[podgeandrodge]

As restrictions inevitably get withdrawn (they are mainly to flatten the curve to allow health systems cope as we all know), people will need to live with the virus and, hopefully, live with it together with treatments (rather than vaccine) being available if they fall ill.  With social distancing, community transfer was reasonably low.  When restrictions lift, transmission will increase, so combined with restriction lifting, the potential for mandatory wearing of masks and other precautions will likely happen.  

 

I think cruise lines will sail again when the treatment becomes available (hopefully later this year) so that in the event of asymptomatic transmission occurring, which is hopefully not as regular as being sneezed/coughed on, any cases can be treated without it becoming a disaster as it was a few months ago when there was no treatment.

 

Anyway, that's how I see it playing out.  Humans have to live with the virus, business must start up again, and a treatment is all that really stops that at this point in time.  Only other thought is that 'elderly' or 'vulnerable' people may have to make their own minds in terms of their risk appetite on doing things like eating out/cruising etc.  The world cannot stay in permanent lock down to protect the vulnerable forever unfortunately. 

[FiremedicMike151]

On 4/28/2020 at 9:30 AM, EscapeFromConnecticut said:

So if some CC members wish to keep building their expectations while putting down $$ for trips that won't happen, well ... enjoy. But the rest of CC members can save themselves disappointment and expense by looking beyond phony "optimism."   

 

I find it both sad and frustrating that in modern times people feel the need to inject bitter condescension as a means to reinforce their point.

 

[hamrag]

4 hours ago, podgeandrodge said:

As restrictions inevitably get withdrawn (they are mainly to flatten the curve to allow health systems cope as we all know), people will need to live with the virus and, hopefully, live with it together with treatments (rather than vaccine) being available if they fall ill....

 

I think cruise lines will sail again when the treatment becomes available (hopefully later this year) so that in the event of asymptomatic transmission occurring, which is hopefully not as regular as being sneezed/coughed on, any cases can be treated without it becoming a disaster as it was a few months ago when there was no treatment....

 

 

The difficulty I have with your theory, regarding 'treatments' (assuming the remdesivir drug) is the fact it clearly does not prevent death....its headline claim to fame is that median recovery time reduces by 31% from 15 days to 11 days. But, it has no effect on those who don't recover and, for that reason, I do not believe cruising will resume until 2021.

[podgeandrodge]

1 minute ago, hamrag said:

 

The difficulty I have with your theory, regarding 'treatments' (assuming the remdesivir drug) is the fact it clearly does not prevent death....its headline claim to fame is that median recovery time reduces by 31% from 15 days to 11 days. But, it has no effect on those who don't recover and, for that reason, I do not believe cruising will resume until 2021.

yep, remdesivir might not be enough alright.  Maybe I am too optimistic for a treatment that will provide quicker recovery and ability to treat everyone.  Time will tell!

[Corliss]

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Abstract_Raoult_EarlyTrtCovid19_09042020_vD1v.pdf

 

https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/Table_final_website_IHU_09_04_2020.pdf

 

Current results:  https://www.mediterranee-infection.com/covid-19/