What do they mean when they say sail with half a ship?

[DJLDRUMS]

     Both Mr. Bayley and Mr. Fain were worth the listen. What do you suppose they meant when they said ships will eventually have to start out sailing with half the passengers. MEANING?           If Family A booked a year and a half ago and Family B booked a year ago and Family C booked 6 months ago, will Family A be the one to definitely get onboard, and possibly Family B but Family C doesn't have a snowball in hell of a chance to get accepted when Final Payment is due?  I hope RCI and other Cruise Lines are working on such a plan to let people know just how this is all going to work out with how they plan to decide who will be able to continue to be on a particular sailing in the next few months and even longer.

[Eddie Wilson]

I think that was a corollary benefit of CWC and Lift and Shift.  If a ship was pre-COVID booked at 90%, some amount will cancel, some lift & shift.  

 

If half of the 90% choose one of these paths, then they will not need to draw straws.

 

Now, who knows if the cruises when they start are at 25%, 40%, 50%, 60%,  or 75%????

 

If higher than 50%, maybe they will offer benefits (FCC) to travel later like airlines that are overbooked.

 

Eddie

Edited May 21, 2020 by Eddie Wilson

[Spif Barwunkel]

That is a very good point. If a scheduled cruise is sold out and it is determined that the ships capacity will be less than maximum for that sailing, who goes? Is it first booked first served, cabin category, amount of money spent, Crown and Anchor status etc.? Hopefully, those and other questions will be clarified in order to avoid unnecessary problems and disappointments. Let cruisers know the plan before asking for their money.         

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, Eddie Wilson said:

I think that was a corollary benefit of CWC and Lift and Shift.  If a ship was pre-COVID booked at 90%, some amount will cancel, some lift & shift.  

 

If half of the 90% choose one of these paths, then they will not need to draw straws.

 

Now, who knows if the cruises when they start are at 25%, 40%, 50%, 60%,  or 75%????

 

If higher than 50%, maybe they will offer benefits (FCC) to travel later like airlines that are overbooked.

 

Eddie

I just looked at October 25 Allure Cruise out of Barcelona. No GS/OS available. Only a couple of CLS open. Seems like people are hanging on to them. 

[John&LaLa]

Royal could cancel all 2020 bookings in say July, then resell new itineraries starting in August or September. And only sell a portion of the cabins.

 

Just a guess

[firefly333]

Carnival just cuts off booking at 50%, if some cancel, it reopens. No one can upgrade once they shut down bookings even if lots of empty cabins 

[HBE4]

Maybe it'll be a new version of Royal-Up. People bid to keep their cabin. Highest 50% in each cabin category win.

Edited May 21, 2020 by HBE4

[bigrednole]

If they have to pick and choose who gets to cruise, there will be problems. They need to stop allowing people to book cruises starting in August until whenever if they are at or above 50% already. Then, are those that are booted off the cruise get 1st priority on the next possible cruise they can go on? I know for my family were are limited when we can go now. 

 

Option 1: Make it an Elitest vacation and make people bid to keep their place

Option 2: Bookings paid in full first up to the 50% keep their reservation

Option 3: I don't know because nothing will  be fair

 

All I can say is if we get bounced from our cruise, RCL better be coming with insane offers. Otherwise it becomes a legal issue. The reason is there is nothing in the contract agreement we have with them that allows them to choose who to kick off. And yes, I have looked at the terms and conditions. Unlike canceled sailings, this is a sailing that is occurring and binding contractual agreements are in place. RCL will have to provide an offer that the customer is willing to accept or face legal battles they cannot afford because it will become a Class Action. We are not talking about 5-10 families. With all of the cruise bookings, there will be 100s or 1000s affected. This would put RCL into bankruptcy. 

[Billy Baltic]

If not managed properly this could finish off RC. For 2020, I believe, people will be very understanding of measures taken to safeguard health. Many of these will have to be introduced quickly and won’t be perfect.

However, going into 2021 if large numbers of people are getting bounced they’ll turn to other vacations. 

[deliver42]

They can go with first booked, first to sail.

[molly361]

10 minutes ago, deliver42 said:

They can go with first booked, first to sail.

Ditto this

[John&LaLa]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

If they have to pick and choose who gets to cruise, there will be problems. They need to stop allowing people to book cruises starting in August until whenever if they are at or above 50% already. Then, are those that are booted off the cruise get 1st priority on the next possible cruise they can go on? I know for my family were are limited when we can go now. 

 

Option 1: Make it an Elitest vacation and make people bid to keep their place

Option 2: Bookings paid in full first up to the 50% keep their reservation

Option 3: I don't know because nothing will  be fair

 

All I can say is if we get bounced from our cruise, RCL better be coming with insane offers. Otherwise it becomes a legal issue. The reason is there is nothing in the contract agreement we have with them that allows them to choose who to kick off. And yes, I have looked at the terms and conditions. Unlike canceled sailings, this is a sailing that is occurring and binding contractual agreements are in place. RCL will have to provide an offer that the customer is willing to accept or face legal battles they cannot afford because it will become a Class Action. We are not talking about 5-10 families. With all of the cruise bookings, there will be 100s or 1000s affected. This would put RCL into bankruptcy. 

 

Good possibility thst 7 day Oasis cruises could become 3/4 trips so they would need to cancel anyway

[Eddie Wilson]

9 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

I just looked at October 25 Allure Cruise out of Barcelona. No GS/OS available. Only a couple of CLS open. Seems like people are hanging on to them. 

 

I agree, people could be holding on to them.  Then again, that does not confirm they are near 100%.  What we don't know is how many rooms have been removed from inventory.   

 

I feel for people if RCl is forced to make people draw straws to get the sailing down to 50% capacity.  However, I am sure they will make a darn good effort to give them some future benefit.

 

Eddie   

[bigrednole]

2 hours ago, deliver42 said:

They can go with first booked, first to sail.

So someone that booked say January 2019 for Christmas 2020 with only a deposit, would get preference over someone that booked January 2020 for the same cruise and has fully paid for it? That will never work because you have a legal document once paid in full. A deposit only guarantees an option to the reservation. If that right is no longer available to you, the deposit can be refunded. 

 

RCL is in a world of trouble if they are going to try to start bouncing people from cruises. A cruise industry shutdown is one thing. When sailing begin and they have to choose who gets to sail and who doesn't, that becomes a legal issue. At least for US ports, that would be a US legal battle and not the friendly country of registry. They need to review all sailings from August through December, only sell for 50% capacity. Once the ships are at 50%, allow people to book with acknowledgement that there is a very likely  chance they will get bounced, but that is known and the person makes the decision. For ships over 50% right now, no more reservations and start seeking people who are willing to switch sailings until they can get to the number.

Edited May 21, 2020 by bigrednole

[danv3]

This has the potential to get ugly.  Hopefully the find enough volunteers to move based on lift and shift or additional offers (like when airlines are oversold).  If they start canceling cruises for people who have paid reservations when the cruise is actually going to sail...YIKES.  

[Milwaukee Eight]

3 hours ago, bigrednole said:

If they have to pick and choose who gets to cruise, there will be problems. They need to stop allowing people to book cruises starting in August until whenever if they are at or above 50% already. Then, are those that are booted off the cruise get 1st priority on the next possible cruise they can go on? I know for my family were are limited when we can go now. 

 

Option 1: Make it an Elitest vacation and make people bid to keep their place

Option 2: Bookings paid in full first up to the 50% keep their reservation

Option 3: I don't know because nothing will  be fair

 

All I can say is if we get bounced from our cruise, RCL better be coming with insane offers. Otherwise it becomes a legal issue. The reason is there is nothing in the contract agreement we have with them that allows them to choose who to kick off. And yes, I have looked at the terms and conditions. Unlike canceled sailings, this is a sailing that is occurring and binding contractual agreements are in place. RCL will have to provide an offer that the customer is willing to accept or face legal battles they cannot afford because it will become a Class Action. We are not talking about 5-10 families. With all of the cruise bookings, there will be 100s or 1000s affected. This would put RCL into bankruptcy. 

What if they are forced to reduce capacity to satisfy the CDC?  This applies to US only sailings only. 

[Iamcruzin]

Another issue I forsee is how this will affect those with FCCs?  Will they be able to book a cruise with limited supply and limited capacity before they expire?  Supply and demand will drive up price and those FCCs even with the extra 25% may not have much buying power.  The other issue is we don't know how long after they start sailing will the cruise lines have to sail at lower capacity. This will be another hurdle in terms of price and filling ships at the last minute should the capcity limit be lifted 

[Iamcruzin]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What if they are forced to reduce capacity to satisfy the CDC?  This applies to US only sailings only. 

Good point 

[bigrednole]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

What if they are forced to reduce capacity to satisfy the CDC?  This applies to US only sailings only. 

Then it becomes contract law. They will have to find volunteers and provide incentives. A lawyer would have to provide the real details. However, a contract paid in full is binding. A deposit on the potential to purchase is not. I have looked at the T&C's on my invoice and there is nothing in it on bouncing me from the cruise. 

 

1. RCL needs to seriously evaluate all of their 2020 bookings. Identify cruises that currently have 50%+ reservations, halt additional reservations on those cruises, and determine a plan to meet requirements.

2. Block all bookings on 2020 cruises once 50% capacity is reached. Inform all of those that have reservations that payment in full is due NOW and non-refundable. Allow them a week to pay or their reservation canceled and they are given FCC. Any new reservation made will require immediate full, non-refundable payment. 

3. As CDC restrictions lift, they can open additional reservations. 

[Ourusualbeach]

36 minutes ago, bigrednole said:

So someone that booked say January 2019 for Christmas 2020 with only a deposit, would get preference over someone that booked January 2020 for the same cruise and has fully paid for it? That will never work because you have a legal document once paid in full. A deposit only guarantees an option to the reservation. If that right is no longer available to you, the deposit can be refunded. 

 

RCL is in a world of trouble if they are going to try to start bouncing people from cruises. A cruise industry shutdown is one thing. When sailing begin and they have to choose who gets to sail and who doesn't, that becomes a legal issue. At least for US ports, that would be a US legal battle and not the friendly country of registry. They need to review all sailings from August through December, only sell for 50% capacity. Once the ships are at 50%, allow people to book with acknowledgement that there is a very likely  chance they will get bounced, but that is known and the person makes the decision. For ships over 50% right now, no more reservations and start seeking people who are willing to switch sailings until they can get to the number.

The number of people that pay in full before final payment date is extremely small.  Based on personal experiences with clients I would say less than 2%.

 

Also, you keep mentioning legal documents and contracts.  Have you not read many of the threads on here about people getting bumped without recourse well after final payment. There is language in the contract that allows Royal an out if they need it. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

Everyone puts so much into their status level with C&A so why not meet capacity requirements using C&A. 
 

Suites/Pinnacles keep bookings. 
D+ next priority and work down. Unfortunately, this would eliminate newer cruisers. 
 

😇

[cruiseguy1016]

Maybe I'm the minority here but is getting bumped really that big of a deal, especially considering the circumstances? I have a cruise booked for next February. If I was told that I could not cruise, I would be disappointed for sure but as long as I got my money back (refund or FCC), I would not go crazy and threaten to sue the company. This pandemic is affecting everyone in different ways. It's not RCI's fault. They are doing the best they can to try to deal with it, to keep their customers safe and to stay in business. People need to see the big picture and learn to roll with the flow.

[cruiseguy1016]

4 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Everyone puts so much into their status level with C&A so why not meet capacity requirements using C&A. 
 

Suites/Pinnacles keep bookings. 
D+ next priority and work down. Unfortunately, this would eliminate newer cruisers. 
 

😇

 

Not suites. A first time cruiser can book a suite. If you're going to reward loyalty, then reward loyalty, not cabin category.

[LXA350]

For the tie being we are living in a situation where naturally ships are not fully booked; so sailing at reduced capacity once cruising will start over shouldn't be a problem. Once a concrete strategy has been figured out blocking of cabins can be introduced and if passengers might need to be moved if a given quota has been received for a sailing the cruisline will do so for the lowest category cabins out of a easy business decision. Compensation if at all will be the lowest by having to rebook passenges that paid the lowest fares.

[bigrednole]

3 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

The number of people that pay in full before final payment date is extremely small.  Based on personal experiences with clients I would say less than 2%.

They may have something buried somewhere deep in there. The issue is when they have to make a choice. There are legal ramifications when Person A does not have a fully paid contract but signed intent first, Person B has a fully paid contract but purchased after Person A, and Person C fully paid for 3 contracts. Does Person A get theirs, Person B get theirs, and Person C only get 1 and tell half their family they can't go?