Carnival Corp to retire 6 ships in next 90 days

[Stick93]

How many fantasy class ships make up an  XL ship?? Seems to me prob 2+ 

Maybe now they name the next ship Fantasy ( it’s prob was going to be an older retired ship name anyways) and have all the other names of the ship as themes or restaurant names. 

[Stick93]

Wikipedia has fantasy and inspiration out of service in their bios. That means as much as JH posts that nothing is happening. But clearly something is happening! 

[Essiesmom]

1 hour ago, Stick93 said:

How many fantasy class ships make up an  XL ship?? Seems to me prob 2+ 

Maybe now they name the next ship Fantasy ( it’s prob was going to be an older retired ship name anyways) and have all the other names of the ship as themes or restaurant names. 

They need to re-use Carnivale, Festivale, and Tropicale; Jubilee, Holiday and Celebration before they get to Fantasy...  EM

[Joe817]

1 hour ago, Stick93 said:

How many fantasy class ships make up an  XL ship?? Seems to me prob 2+ 

Maybe now they name the next ship Fantasy ( it’s prob was going to be an older retired ship name anyways) and have all the other names of the ship as themes or restaurant names. 

That is soooo funny!! I can just imagine a Carnival cruise ship called "Guys Burgers"! 🤣

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Stick93 said:

Wikipedia has fantasy and inspiration out of service in their bios. That means as much as JH posts that nothing is happening. But clearly something is happening! 

 

As was demonstrated the other day, anyone can edit Wikipedia. JH posted he couldn't comment, yes, no, or maybe, and that would include saying nothing is happening.

[Stick93]

40 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

They need to re-use Carnivale, Festivale, and Tropicale; Jubilee, Holiday and Celebration before they get to Fantasy...  EM

I was thinking they would use Carnivale - but the fantasy ships were their biggest investment in 8 ships and prob gave them the most growth early. The Destiney took them to today but those ships made then the largest at the time. 

[drsel]

Updated list
Previously sold
Costa neoClassica sold to Bahamas Paradise
Costa neoRiviera sold to AIDA (group Co.)
Costa Atlantica - sold to Carnival-China JV
Costa Mediterranea - sold to Carnival-China JV
P&O Aus Pacific Aria - sold to CMV, early departure
P&O Aus Pacific Dawn-sold to CMV, early departure

Confirmed
Costa Victoria - sold for scrap
P&O Oceana - sold to Greek buyers
HAL Maasdam
HAL Veendam
HAL Rotterdam sold to Fred Olsen
HAL Amsterdam sold to Fred Olsen

Very Likely
Carnival Fascination - sold for scrap
Carnival Inspiration - sold for scrap
Carnival Elation - sold for scrap
Carnival Imagination - sold for scrap
Carnival Ecstasy - sold for scrap
Carnival Fantasy- sold for scrap
Costa neoRomantica - sold to Carnival-China JV

[lostsoulcruiser]

When I first started this thread/conversation, it was only six ships across the corporation.  Times change quickly and now the number is 13.  We have seen HAL announce 4 ships leaving the fleet.  I think I saw 2 from princess leaving 7 ships from Carnival and the rest of the fleet.  I saw the Fantasy was going to scrap, that leaves 6 left and I have not included the P&O and Costa brands.

 

Most people are assuming the the Fantasy class ships will go.  If that is Carnival's direction, look to the Imagination , Ectasy and Elation as candidates for retirement not so much for age but also they are due to be refurbished and Carnival needs to save cash. 

[bish 1]

Booked on the Sensation next March...starting to worry that it won't be around.

[DryCreek]

It does make you wonder if Carnival will really abandon the markets that are limited by ship size.  Do any of the other lines under the Carnival umbrella have comparably sized ships that are newer and may be rebadged, or homeported at those locations?

[Joe817]

9 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

It does make you wonder if Carnival will really abandon the markets that are limited by ship size.  Do any of the other lines under the Carnival umbrella have comparably sized ships that are newer and may be rebadged, or homeported at those locations?

Good point D.C.! That has not been brought up, until you did. A workable solution, I would think.

[xDisconnections]

35 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

It does make you wonder if Carnival will really abandon the markets that are limited by ship size.  Do any of the other lines under the Carnival umbrella have comparably sized ships that are newer and may be rebadged, or homeported at those locations?

Why does Carnival have to adapt to accommodate those markets? They can just as easily adapt on their own to accommodate Carnival. For example, if Jacksonville wants Carnival’s business, why can’t they move their terminal to the other side of the bridge?

 

To answer the question though, Island/Coral Princess are pretty small and many seem to hate Island after its refurb. It could be shuffled but it doesn’t match the onboard decor you’ll typically find on Carnival. I couldn’t name any other ships off hand from other cruise lines within CCL Corp.

Edited July 17, 2020 by xDisconnections

[cksv]

26 minutes ago, Joe817 said:

Good point D.C.! That has not been brought up, until you did. A workable solution, I would think.

 

I don't think Carnival will want to spend any more than they need to on capital expenditures over the next few years, so doubt they would refurbish any smaller ships from their sister lines to the Carnival brand. The Fantasy class has more ships than any other class so I'm sure they will keep at least a few around for the smaller markets and booze cruises.

Edited July 17, 2020 by cksv

[BlerkOne]

18 hours ago, drsel said:

Very Likely

Carnival Elation - sold for scrap - UNLIKELY - Carnival has released new sailings for to late 2022. Also Paradise into 2023.

 

 

 

[embarkation75]

4 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

 

If you're going by the website then Carnival Fantasy will also be sailing through January 2022 but I'm pretty sure that's not happening! Not saying Elation won't be around but using future cruises on the page is about as accurate as throwing darts in the dark.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, embarkation75 said:

 

If you're going by the website then Carnival Fantasy will also be sailing through January 2022 but I'm pretty sure that's not happening! Not saying Elation won't be around but using future cruises on the page is about as accurate as throwing darts in the dark.

 

Going by what a Carnival PVP posted on her FB page earlier today, so apparently new cruises just released. Other ships, too, including Pride, Sunshine, Liberty, more.

 

[embarkation75]

6 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Going by what a Carnival PVP posted on her FB page earlier today, so apparently new cruises just released. Other ships, too, including Pride, Sunshine, Liberty, more.

 

 

That still doesn't mean anything about the status of Elation as those itineraries can easily end up being switched to another ship or cancelled (e.g. see Fantasy cruises out of Mobile). Again, I have no insider info on Elation but these new cruise dates don't mean much as I've had the ship switched several times before embarkation when booking well ahead of time.

[tidecat]

The juggling act for Carnival (Corporation) is preserving their own cash position. It becomes a little less precarious in August as Europe starts slowly coming back online.

 

A ship coming due for drydock is a liability in that could be several million dollars that Carnival can't afford to spend right now. Of course if the shipyard is unable to do the work, that presents a different problem. For the Fantasy class drydocks:

 

Elation - just completed March 2020, next between March 2022 and March 2023

Paradise - next one is scheduled to begin February 27, 2021. This will be difficult to delay since the last one was completed in February/March 2018, which is pushing the 36-month threshold. This could be an issue before too long.

Imagination - last one completed November 2, 2019, next one due between November 2021 and November 2022. The lack of balcony cabins may be a greater issue here.

Fascination - last one completed February 2018, next scheduled for November 2020. Carnival does have some slack here, but it may be easier to sell the ship if a buyer can be found soon, even if it's for scrap.

Sensation - last one completed January 2020, next one between January 2022 and January 2023.

Ecstasy- last completed October 2019, due between October 2021 and October 2022. 

 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, tidecat said:

The juggling act for Carnival (Corporation) is preserving their own cash position. It becomes a little less precarious in August as Europe starts slowly coming back online.

 

A ship coming due for drydock is a liability in that could be several million dollars that Carnival can't afford to spend right now. Of course if the shipyard is unable to do the work, that presents a different problem. For the Fantasy class drydocks:

 

Elation - just completed March 2020, next between March 2022 and March 2023

Paradise - next one is scheduled to begin February 27, 2021. This will be difficult to delay since the last one was completed in February/March 2018, which is pushing the 36-month threshold. This could be an issue before too long.

Imagination - last one completed November 2, 2019, next one due between November 2021 and November 2022. The lack of balcony cabins may be a greater issue here.

Fascination - last one completed February 2018, next scheduled for November 2020. Carnival does have some slack here, but it may be easier to sell the ship if a buyer can be found soon, even if it's for scrap.

Sensation - last one completed January 2020, next one between January 2022 and January 2023.

Ecstasy- last completed October 2019, due between October 2021 and October 2022. 

 

 

Elation and Paradise have azipods and Carnival has billions in loan guarantees specifically for new ships and transformations/maintenance of existing ships.

[Essiesmom]

Fascination now shows Cadiz as destination.  Maybe for drydock?  EM

[DryCreek]

11 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

Why does Carnival have to adapt to accommodate those markets? They can just as easily adapt on their own to accommodate Carnival. For example, if Jacksonville wants Carnival’s business, why can’t they move their terminal to the other side of the bridge?

 

To answer the question though, Island/Coral Princess are pretty small and many seem to hate Island after its refurb. It could be shuffled but it doesn’t match the onboard decor you’ll typically find on Carnival. I couldn’t name any other ships off hand from other cruise lines within CCL Corp.

Well, Carnival doesn't have to adapt.  They can just as easily write those ports off. 

It's easy to move a pin on a map.  Voila, the cruise terminal is now moved to the other side of the bridge.  Reality sets in when you start trying to find a suitable and affordable tract of land for the project.

 

But, for the forward-looking cruise operator with a smaller ship (or three), maybe this is an opportunity to expand service when the restrictions have been lifted.  Isn't at least one of the Fantasy class ships going to  the Bahama Paradise Cruise Line? 

Imagine if you did rotational cruises between two or more US ports.  Depart from Mobile, hit your distant foreign port and then port in Miami.  Do a two-night cruise to the Bahamas and then return to Mobile.  For the people not wanting to fly back home, they book a return leg after spending two days in Sunny Palm Beach in the Keys (booked as an excursion).  Of course that might be a real stretch for the "Closed Loop" cruise requirement, but a creative operator may be better at working out the details than I could with just an off-the-cuff idea.

[ProgRockCruiser]

48 minutes ago, DryCreek said:

Imagine if you did rotational cruises between two or more US ports.  Depart from Mobile, hit your distant foreign port and then port in Miami.  Do a two-night cruise to the Bahamas and then return to Mobile.  For the people not wanting to fly back home, they book a return leg after spending two days in Sunny Palm Beach in the Keys (booked as an excursion).  Of course that might be a real stretch for the "Closed Loop" cruise requirement, but a creative operator may be better at working out the details than I could with just an off-the-cuff idea.

The PVSA prohibits that, effectively, because the "distant foreign port" would have to be Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao (or somewhere else in South America) - Central America, Bermuda and the rest of the Caribbean do not count.  And they would have to do the same for Miami back to Mobile, unless they don't pick up passengers in Miami.  While that would be a nice cruise, I don't think it would be feasible as a regular booking.

 

I think a lot of thought went into the PVSA to ensure no-one could get creative in such manners...

[xDisconnections]

2 hours ago, DryCreek said:

Well, Carnival doesn't have to adapt.  They can just as easily write those ports off. 

It's easy to move a pin on a map.  Voila, the cruise terminal is now moved to the other side of the bridge.  Reality sets in when you start trying to find a suitable and affordable tract of land for the project.

 

But, for the forward-looking cruise operator with a smaller ship (or three), maybe this is an opportunity to expand service when the restrictions have been lifted.  Isn't at least one of the Fantasy class ships going to  the Bahama Paradise Cruise Line? 

Imagine if you did rotational cruises between two or more US ports.  Depart from Mobile, hit your distant foreign port and then port in Miami.  Do a two-night cruise to the Bahamas and then return to Mobile.  For the people not wanting to fly back home, they book a return leg after spending two days in Sunny Palm Beach in the Keys (booked as an excursion).  Of course that might be a real stretch for the "Closed Loop" cruise requirement, but a creative operator may be better at working out the details than I could with just an off-the-cuff idea.

 

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The PVSA prohibits that, effectively, because the "distant foreign port" would have to be Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao (or somewhere else in South America) - Central America, Bermuda and the rest of the Caribbean do not count.  And they would have to do the same for Miami back to Mobile, unless they don't pick up passengers in Miami.  While that would be a nice cruise, I don't think it would be feasible as a regular booking.

 

I think a lot of thought went into the PVSA to ensure no-one could get creative in such manners...

Call me crazy but I don’t think that’s a suitable itinerary for the target demographic out of Mobile.

[DryCreek]

11 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

The PVSA prohibits that, effectively, because the "distant foreign port" would have to be Aruba, Bonaire, or Curaçao (or somewhere else in South America) - Central America, Bermuda and the rest of the Caribbean do not count.  And they would have to do the same for Miami back to Mobile, unless they don't pick up passengers in Miami.  While that would be a nice cruise, I don't think it would be feasible as a regular booking.

 

I think a lot of thought went into the PVSA to ensure no-one could get creative in such manners...

I thought that Carnival was running a three day cruise out of Norfolk to Bermuda and back.  No PVSA  issues there, that I am aware of.

Bahama Paradise Cruise Lines offers two-day packages that leave Palm Beach, call on Grand Bahama Island or Nassau, and then back.  They even have a special package "Cruise and Stay Package" where you  cruise to either destination, stay two, four or six days, and then return to Palm Beach.

So, if they pick up another ship, and another port, why wouldn't they be able to offer the same packages out of Mobile?  Was Pam Beach exempted from the PVSA?

 

ETA - Baltimore to Bermuda is also apparently allowed.

Edited July 18, 2020 by DryCreek
see ETA.

[DryCreek]

10 hours ago, xDisconnections said:

 

Call me crazy but I don’t think that’s a suitable itinerary for the target demographic out of Mobile.

And that's why I mentioned the itinerary currently offered by Bahamas Paradise Cruise Line.

They have leadership that has been involved (heavily) in the industry for a long time, and just like when Carnival was an upstart company breaking into an already established business model with new ideas, this company may also seize on the possibility of adding a new port or two.  I do believe that they have contracted to purchase one of the Fantasy class ships from Carnival - and they are already running a whale-tale ship anyway.

 

Like Spirit Airlines which operates with a very limited fleet, BPCL could time a departure out of mobile and port in one of their two destinations, drop off those who booked a "Cruise and Stay Package", and then return to Mobile.  If they could book just C&S packages, then they could drop off a load, run to their other port (Palm Beach), pick up another group, drop them, pick up the original group, run them back to Mobile, and then start the cycle all over.

I would assume that Nassau and the Grand Bahamas would be a suitable itinerary for Mobile, but I am no expert on those demographics.

Edited July 18, 2020 by DryCreek
spelng airers n stuf.