CDC Double Standard

[Daniel A]

American Airlines has announced they will be filling their planes to capacity starting July 1.  Where is the CDC on this?  Or is CDC only looking at cruise ships and leaving the airline industry alone?  How do PAX practice social distancing on a packed airplane?

Edited June 26, 2020 by Daniel A

[Guindalf]

CDC has no powers to enforce any of its suggestions. It is only an advisory body. Therefore no-one HAS to follow anything they say.

 

Having said that, the state and federal government can create Executive Orders based on the CDC's recommendation, in which case, it would be an offense not to ignore the EO, not the advice.

 

Also, it would be dumb to not to at least listen to the recommendations in this litigious society, so the airlines are taking a risk and potentially putting profit ahead of safety. 

[npcl]

11 minutes ago, Guindalf said:

CDC has no powers to enforce any of its suggestions. It is only an advisory body. Therefore no-one HAS to follow anything they say.

 

Having said that, the state and federal government can create Executive Orders based on the CDC's recommendation, in which case, it would be an offense not to ignore the EO, not the advice.

 

Also, it would be dumb to not to at least listen to the recommendations in this litigious society, so the airlines are taking a risk and potentially putting profit ahead of safety. 

Not quite. The CDC can utilize enforcement authority at the border and at state lines under certain conditions, but not inside of states. As far as states go the CDC only can advise.

 

The governor of a state, depending upon the laws of that state, does have the power to enforce CDC recommendations.

 

As far as the feds go the President does not have legal authority to force the states when it comes to public health, executive order or not.

 

Though with the airlines there might be an avenue to enforce action via the FAA, but not through the CDC.

[ontheweb]

10 minutes ago, npcl said:

Not quite. The CDC can utilize enforcement authority at the border and at state lines under certain conditions, but not inside of states. As far as states go the CDC only can advise.

 

The governor of a state, depending upon the laws of that state, does have the power to enforce CDC recommendations.

 

As far as the feds go the President does not have legal authority to force the states when it comes to public health, executive order or not.

 

Though with the airlines there might be an avenue to enforce action via the FAA, but not through the CDC.

Just to slightly add to what you wrote, the CDC can and has used the Coast Guard to enforce their rules on cruise ships.

[ReidRGetALife]

The airlines all require masks to be worn. And EVERYBODY knows with a mask on you're 100% protected!! No virus can get through THAT thing! Right. It's like putting up a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes.

[Roberto256]

30 minutes ago, ReidRGetALife said:

The airlines all require masks to be worn. And EVERYBODY knows with a mask on you're 100% protected!! No virus can get through THAT thing! Right. It's like putting up a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes.

 

I think it's highly likely that cruise lines will as well.

 

If princess had diamond princess repeat, I think that would be the end of the brand.

 

Additionally, cruise lines can re-assure potential customers with how safe they

are making things.

 

 

[frugaltravel]

1 hour ago, ReidRGetALife said:

The airlines all require masks to be worn. And EVERYBODY knows with a mask on you're 100% protected!! No virus can get through THAT thing! Right. It's like putting up a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes.

What a poor analogy. Pure opinion 😞

[cruisequeen4ever]

I know what you’re saying. Cruise lines are bashed and held accountable for illnesses, yet flying is likely the culprit for many transmissions of illnesses with no accountability. 
 

 

[pms4104]

3 hours ago, cruisequeen4ever said:

I know what you’re saying. Cruise lines are bashed and held accountable for illnesses, yet flying is likely the culprit for many transmissions of illnesses with no accountability. 
 

 

And you know this as fact how?

[npcl]

Air travel supports many essential activities.  Cruise line are entirely recreational.  While air planes might transport an infected person from one area to another, attack rates on air craft, especially if mask wearing is enforced, and no drink or food service, are relatively low. Many studies put the most risk without masks to be 2 rows in front and in back of an infected person.

 

Attack rate (rate of spread) on cruise ships were shown to be quite high.

 

if one really wanted to apply  similar restrictions to aircraft it would be to not allow recreational travel by air.

[BirdTravels]

9 hours ago, ReidRGetALife said:

The airlines all require masks to be worn. And EVERYBODY knows with a mask on you're 100% protected!! No virus can get through THAT thing! Right. It's like putting up a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes.

You have a mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate has a mask - 6% probability of transmission

 

You have a mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate without a mask worn constantly (lots of "eating" or "drinking" time without a mask) or not fitted well - 33% probability of transmission 

 

You have a have a lot of time without a mask ("eating" or "drinking" time)/lose mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate without a mask worn constantly (lots of "eating" or "drinking" time without a mask)/lose mask - 67% probability of transmission 

 

CDC

[Lucky TGO]

12 hours ago, Daniel A said: How do PAX practice social distancing on a packed airplane?

That’s easy stay in the rest room. 😳

Tony

[caribill]

9 hours ago, frugaltravel said:

What a poor analogy. Pure opinion 😞

 

To me it is a good analogy.

 

If a person wears a cloth or other non-N95 mask and has the virus, the mask can help prevent coughs and sneezes and even talking from spreading those germs to others. Help,. not completely eliminate.

 

But if the wearer does not have the virus, virus particles in the air can still get inside the mask and infect the wearer. In this respect, it is like a chain-link fence.

 

There is certainly no social distancing on a packed airplane. And as others have pointed out, to eat or drink anything means not wearing the mask at all at those times, not you and not those within six feet of you.

[SinbadThePorter]

52 minutes ago, caribill said:

But if the wearer does not have the virus, virus particles in the air can still get inside the mask and infect the wearer. In this respect, it is like a chain-link fence.

 

Masks aren't for stopping virus particles, viruses are too small for that. Masks stop the micro droplets that people spread from their mouths while coughing, sneezing, talking or even breathing. The virus is about 0.125 micons in size and these droplets range from about 1 to 5 microns in size. A human hair is around 50 microns thick.

 

As pointed out by BirdTravels it's all a matter of probabilities. Masks drastically reduce the probability of transmission of the virus. They are not 100% effective and nothing ever is. However, they are a hell of a lot better than trusting to luck. Of course effectiveness will vary with the quality of the mask, the way the mask is worn and when the mask is worn. But even a bad mask worn badly will reduce virus transmission.

 

It doesn't eliminate all virus transmission,  but if you can reduce the incidence of transmission so that on average each infected person infects less than one other person, then the number of infected persons in the next cycle of infection will be less than the number in the previous cycle. Although the virus doesn't disappear, it becomes less and less common.

[Cafedumonde]

15 hours ago, Daniel A said:

American Airlines has announced they will be filling their planes to capacity starting July 1.  Where is the CDC on this?  Or is CDC only looking at cruise ships and leaving the airline industry alone?  How do PAX practice social distancing on a packed airplane?

Good for them.  It’s just a bad cold that doesn’t even produce symptoms in the majority of the population.  The more quickly healthy people get exposed to it, the better off we all are.  You really think it makes a difference if you have an empty seat next to you and someone 24 inches away?  It’s all optics anyway.

[Cafedumonde]

13 hours ago, ReidRGetALife said:

The airlines all require masks to be worn. And EVERYBODY knows with a mask on you're 100% protected!! No virus can get through THAT thing! Right. It's like putting up a chain link fence to keep out mosquitoes.

Exactly.  Totally pointless.  Possibly even counter productive.  It just makes people feel like they are doing something.  The fact is no one really knows exactly how the virus is transmitted.  If we did, cruise lines could easily implement policies to prevent infection.  It’s in the cold virus family and is just everywhere at this point.

[caribill]

51 minutes ago, Cafedumonde said:

Good for them.  It’s just a bad cold that doesn’t even produce symptoms in the majority of the population.  The more quickly healthy people get exposed to it, the better off we all are. 

 

More and more evidence is showing that when healthy young people get the virus and do not show symptoms there are complications that do not show up for months. One such example is irreversible Type 1 Diabetes. Brain damage is also possible.

[frugaltravel]

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/626036/your-coronavirus-face-mask-does-not-limit-oxygen-intake

[FlorenceItaly]

18 hours ago, Daniel A said:

American Airlines has announced they will be filling their planes to capacity starting July 1.  Where is the CDC on this?  Or is CDC only looking at cruise ships and leaving the airline industry alone?  How do PAX practice social distancing on a packed airplane?

They are already filling them up and not leaving the middle seat open.  We have family who flew AA, Sacramento to Charlotte a week ago, FULL.  Masks are a requirement but two women refused and nothing was done or said to them by airline personnel.

[Daniel A]

3 hours ago, Cafedumonde said:

Good for them.  It’s just a bad cold that doesn’t even produce symptoms in the majority of the population.  The more quickly healthy people get exposed to it, the better off we all are. 

Pay no attention to the 127,000 people behind the curtain!!!  It's just a common cold!!!

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

You have a mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate has a mask - 6% probability of transmission

 

You have a mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate without a mask worn constantly (lots of "eating" or "drinking" time without a mask) or not fitted well - 33% probability of transmission 

 

You have a have a lot of time without a mask ("eating" or "drinking" time)/lose mask and your asymptomatic COVID seatmate without a mask worn constantly (lots of "eating" or "drinking" time without a mask)/lose mask - 67% probability of transmission 

 

CDC

But aren't you supposed to stay hydrated on planes? Isn't that why they often offer water? You cannot drink while wearing your mask. Would you just be trading one problem for another?

[Geoffa30]

Cruising is never going to start back up based on some of the attitudes on here. Dare I say, with the huge American clientele making up their passengers, the major cruise lines are never going to set sail again.

[Geoffa30]

5 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

But aren't you supposed to stay hydrated on planes? Isn't that why they often offer water? You cannot drink while wearing your mask. Would you just be trading one problem for another?

Given the choice would you rather be dehydrated or die of Covid-19?

[Cafedumonde]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Pay no attention to the 127,000 people behind the curtain!!!  It's just a common cold!!!

No, it’s not a common cold.  It’s in the cold virus family.  It is more severe than the common cold and is comparable to getting the flu but with a lung component.  It knocks you out for a few days like the flu.   But it is nothing to stop the world for.  And there are lots of treatments for it now— more than we have for the flu.

[Cafedumonde]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

More and more evidence is showing that when healthy young people get the virus and do not show symptoms there are complications that do not show up for months. One such example is irreversible Type 1 Diabetes. Brain damage is also possible.

That’s all fear mongering.  This is just a virus.  You get sick and then you get better or you don’t.  Just like the flu.