Empress of The Seas

[Extra Kim]

Even if it does, and we get to sail in April on Empress I will still have the picture of it being a rust bucket... 

 

This sends a bad image of what kind of ships Royal Caribbean has. Even if it would be the same rust bucket with a layer of paint over it, the image of luxuary would be there..

Edited August 21, 2020 by Extra Kim

[Pratique]

All ships develop rust stains. I've even seen them on Allure. Big ugly ones running down the side. The ocean is a harsh environment. It requires constant maintenance.

 

What I take out of the investor call is that some ships are definitely going into layup but Royal still hasn't canceled those cruises.

[Hoopster95]

3 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

Anything could be true at this point.  

 

This^. 

 

My common sense opinion based on zero factual announcements - Empress is 31 years old, has barely any features Royal Caribbean is trying to sell to the public (ie. family cruising, entertainment, bells and whistles) as a company, has barely any suites, barely any amenities, barely anything that represents the company at all. Sailings were hugely discounted up to the pandemic... even the Cuba cruises were being heavily discounted near their end. Can Empress make a profit with barely any on-board profit centers for RCG? Can Empress come through the pandemic with regard to social distancing (tiny size of cabins, almost no balconies, lack of public space per passenger, etc)?

 

More common sense - Believe whatever you want from Royal... how many times have we seen a thread here on this forum about something Royal is quoted/advertised, and then it's the exact opposite happens? Proof of misleading quotes in the cruise industry?...  Genting just 4 short weeks ago announced they would restart sailings in Asia... YAY!!!!!  Fast forward to today,  and word is they are close to bankruptcy. You can google anything of the above and look at the dates of the articles/announcements.

 

If Empress is stored in cold lay-up, here's the truth about ships/timing as quoted by NCLH CEO Frank Del Rio last week during their earnings conference call:

 

"As we move into the first quarter of 2021, the deployed capacity is expected to ramp up as more vessels gradually re-enter the fleet,” Del Rio told Wall Street analysts during a conference call to discuss second quarter earnings. But “based on this time line, it isn’t until at least the second quarter of 2021 that we would see our fleet return in earnest.

 

 

Asked about the status of the NCLH fleet, Del Rio noted that the majority of the corporation's vessels will be entering cold layup, also known as "minimum manning", within the next 30 to 45 days. A total of seven vessels, which were not named, will be kept in warm-layup status due to port regulations."

 

Asked about the resumption of cruise, Del Rio stated that while the final two months of 2020 could see a limited return to operations, NCLH does not expect the majority of its fleet to re-enter service until the second quarter of 2021. The restart of the entire fleet would take approximately six months once the green-light is given."

 

Perhaps the highly respected @chengkp75 can chime in on this topic of cold layups/timing to bring ships back/etc?

"Once the green light is given... when will that be? Then another 6 months after that???

I feel it will be a miracle if Empress is kept in the fleet. Common sense tells me there is no way she survives. I don't see any reasons why RCG would keep her, and especially if they do not start sailing very very soon. She has to be able to make money... she has to sail to do that. if she can't, I feel she's a goner... it is really that simple... no profit, she's gone.

Maybe I'm wrong. This is just my own non-scientific, non-factual, non-gullible opinion.

 

[Cruise Wonderland]

3 hours ago, GregD said:

Ships don't share electricity.

Also why is the hotel director still o/b?

If they berth at a pier, I think this is possible.

The 3 Azamara ships are sharing electricity while they are all in cold lay-up in Glasgow now.

 

 

[Pratique]

42 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

Can Empress make a profit with barely any on-board profit centers for RCG?

Sure, why not? It's not like they are giving cruises and drink packages away. And even if not, she could be a loss leader. They're still taking deposits. Besides, it's just one ship in the fleet. Yes there is no revenue if she's not sailing but at the same time there is revenue if she's sailing (or at least on the deployment schedule). Maybe they could find a place for her, maybe not. She's been written off before. Who knows how this will play out.

[John&LaLa]

1 hour ago, Pratique said:

All ships develop rust stains. I've even seen them on Allure. Big ugly ones running down the side. The ocean is a harsh environment. It requires constant maintenance.

 

What I take out of the investor call is that some ships are definitely going into layup but Royal still hasn't canceled those cruises.

 

We have some prints by nautical artist Paul McGehee. When asked why he always paints rust on his ships he said something like "because all ships have rust"

[Pratique]

5 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

We have some prints by nautical artist Paul McGehee. When asked why he always paints rust on his ships he said something like "because all ships have rust"

Rust and paint are what hold them together. 😄

 

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a30522792/navy-fighting-rust/

Edited August 21, 2020 by Pratique

[James_TheVirus]

I am beginning to wonder...there are 4 ships sitting on the beach in Turkey, and we know Horizon is heading there once they create space.  Could it be that there is a line forming for scrapping cruise ships?  Horizon, then the two Carnival ships in cold layup, and then Majesty/Empress?  Maybe even the two Fred Olsen ships, and the CMV ships.  Some/most are in the general area, and are down to very minimal manning. 

 

The cruise lines no doubt want to shed excess/old costly ships ASAP as they still have a cost of storing ($MM/mth), and it would all be a waste if they would reintroduce them to service, then turn around and scrap them within a year or two anyways due to their age.

[twangster]

What does it mean when a cruise ship goes into cold lay-up?

 

10 minutes ago, James_TheVirus said:

The cruise lines no doubt want to shed excess/old costly ships ASAP as they still have a cost of storing ($MM/mth), and it would all be a waste if they would reintroduce them to service, then turn around and scrap them within a year or two anyways due to their age.

 

At some point they'll need to give up the notion of returning to Cuba, until then they may want a small ship in the fleet for this purpose.  Cuba was extremely profitable as a destination.  

[bigeck]

1 minute ago, twangster said:

What does it mean when a cruise ship goes into cold lay-up?

 

 

At some point they'll need to give up the notion of returning to Cuba, until then they may want a small ship in the fleet for this purpose.  Cuba was extremely profitable as a destination.  

Now it's Rcg, maybe a smaller Silversea ship

Just a thought

[twangster]

1 minute ago, bigeck said:

Now it's Rcg, maybe a smaller Silversea ship

Just a thought

 

Azamara had cruises to Cuba (before).  However like Silverseas they cater to a different market.   

[OACAggie]

2 hours ago, John&LaLa said:

Looking good, my Queen

 

...She was looking nice and white March 13 in Cozumel...the day we found out we were the last cruises. We were on Oasis.

[twangster]

Carnival has long taken the approach of not keeping up with painting the hull.  At the moment Empress looks like a Carnival ship, the Carnival Empress.  Maybe that is who they sold her to and they are getting her ready... 🙂    

[OACAggie]

9 minutes ago, twangster said:

Carnival has long taken the approach of not keeping up with painting the hull.  At the moment Empress looks like a Carnival ship, the Carnival Empress.  Maybe that is who they sold her to and they are getting her ready... 🙂    

 

Originally, I was actually going to photoshop a Carnival funnel on her and say she would fit right in!

[Tree_skier]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

What does it mean when a cruise ship goes into cold lay-up?

 

 Cuba was extremely profitable as a destination.  

 

Was it?  It seemed to me that if you were just looking at random dates the cheapest cruises were Cuba destinations.  

Edited August 22, 2020 by Tree_skier

[twangster]

1 hour ago, Tree_skier said:

 

Was it?  It seemed to me that if you were just looking at random dates the cheapest cruises were Cuba destinations.  

 

For me Grandeur of of Baltimore and LIberty out of Galveston were often the cheapest for the last minute cabins.  However in general terms neither of these two ports is cheap for everyone when booking before final payment due date like most people do.  Cuba was rarely if ever at the bottom of my searches as a bargain hunter.  I will say they had just opened up bookings for the next Cuba cruise season when the ban was announced.  Perhaps like we see whenever new bookings are opened, you saw the best fares.   

 

How many Pinnacles were on my Cuba cruise in 2018?  Zero.  Too expensive compared to other Florida cruises.  Top cruiser had 525 points.

 

When they were forced to scrap Cuba and had to sell the new replacement cruises on zero notice with ultra cheap fares there were 27 Pinnacles on one of them.  

 

Furthermore given the OFAC restrictions that went in for the two years prior to the ban, there was a lot of motivation to book ship based excursions to be certain you stayed on the right side of OFAC.  When I had lunch with the officer over shore excursions she explained that Cuba was crazy for shore excursions, she had never been busier compared to other destinations.

 

Naturally the Cuba ban was discussed with investors:

 

Jason Liberty -- Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer

 

[Indecipherable] removal of calls to Cuba from June sailings on Majesty of the Seas and Empress of the Seas cost us 30 basis points in year-over-year yield for the quarter. While the Cuba policy change was financially and operationally painful, our underlying business remains very strong as we both outperformed on onboard revenue and saw a further closing demand for our core products.

 

 

Steve Wieczynski -- Stifel -- Analyst

Okay. And then last one for me and I understand, it's still early in terms of booking patterns and I don't think you're going to answer this question really. But when we look out to 2020, and the Caribbean bookings, can we get any color in terms of how they have trended since the Cuban news came out and I understand you just opened up the booking window for some of those ships. But I think the fear that's out there today in the marketplace is that Caribbean yields will materially rollover in the first half of 2020 given the lack of Cuban premiums.

 

Even the analysts wanted to know how the loss of Cuba's premium fares would impact the bottom line.  They estimated the Cuba ban cost them $.30 earning per share compared to the Oasis crane incident that cost them $0.25 earning per share. 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by twangster

[Biker19]

1 hour ago, twangster said:

How many Pinnacles were on my Cuba cruise in 2018?  Zero.  Too expensive compared to other Florida cruises. 

That was still at a point where there was a "premium" for Cuba sailings - by the time the ban started in 2019 that premium was just about gone, especially for Empress.

[Biker19]

10 hours ago, James_TheVirus said:

Maybe even the two Fred Olsen ships,

Yes, likely.....

 

 

It has been confirmed that Fred Olsen Cruises will retire its two cruise ships named Boudicca and Black Watch.

Fred Olsen Cruise Ships Being Retired

The UK-based Fred Olsen Cruises has announced it is retiring two of its cruise ships after purchasing two newer ones from Carnival-owned Holland America Line. Black Watch and Boudicca will both be retired as they are currently the oldest ships in the Fred Olsen fleet.

 

The two vessels MS Amsterdam and MS Rotterdam which were purchased from Holland America Line and renamed as Bolette and Borealis will replace the two older ships. This will include taking over the itineraries of Black Watch and Boudicca.

 

Guests who were booked to sail on Boudicca and Black Watch will automatically have their booking transferred to the same itineraries on Bolette or Borealis, and will be contacted by Fred. Olsen Cruise Lines with final details in the coming weeks.

 

Boudicca was built in 1972 and has been operated by a number of cruise lines before finally ending up with Fred Olsen Cruises since 2005. The ship is over 28,300 gross tons with a guest capacity of 900 along with 320 crew members.

 

Black Watch was also built in 1972 and has been operated by a number of cruise lines including Royal Caribbean before ending with Fred Olsen Cruises in 1996. The vessel is over 28,200 gross tons with a guest capacity of over 800.

 

The British-based cruise line will be holding virtual farewell sailings for Boudicca and Black Watch on Facebook. Guests and crew will be invited to share their photos and memories of the two ships.

 

It’s not known where the vessels will end up once they are retired. it’s likely they will be scrapped due to their age. We’ve already seen Carnival and Pullmantur ships being scrapped at the Aliaga ship breaking facility in Turkey.

[Roger88]

16 hours ago, Cruise Wonderland said:

Someone posted this on a number of Facebook groups. Do you think if this is the truth?

 

Looks quite fake to me and could be simply fakely posted by some of the manager team for you to be informed and avoid any other deals for this particular period. I would first try to verify the information. August 21 has come already and I know nothing about it. It might have been just misinformation to get people hyped 

[Biker19]

42 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

I would first try to verify the information.

As mentioned above, the part about MJ and Jewel being together (for possible crew changes) is not fake - they've been in Dover for what looks like longer than a simple resupply.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Biker19

[Kbonner]

6 hours ago, twangster said:

How many Pinnacles were on my Cuba cruise in 2018?  Zero.  Too expensive compared to other Florida cruises.  Top cruiser had 525 points.

 

Your statement about Cuba fares being the highest is typical twangster fake news.

Here in Europe the Cuba RCI runs were extremely cheap. That's why we booked b2b2b😝

The world of RCI does not revolve solely around Florida.

 

Also why do you mention Pinnacles as a  reference group with respect to your one Cuba cruise. Would you please explain us? 

[LXA350]

RCCL sure already decided what will happen with Majesty and Empress and very very likely they will not be cruising again under the Royal brand. Hence, either the ships will get scraped or, if the Pullmantour would come back again those ships might be used for them. On another note, wouldn't cold layup be more effective in colder waters than in the Med?

[Biker19]

1 minute ago, LXA350 said:

. On another note, wouldn't cold layup be more effective in colder waters than in the Med?

Maybe the layup is planned for several months and they are getting a better deal on resupply in this area. 

[LXA350]

24 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

Maybe the layup is planned for several months and they are getting a better deal on resupply in this area. 

 

And they are much closer to Turkey in case they "spontaniously" will decide to scrap the ships 😉

[orville99]

Why do I get the feeling that Fain and Arnold got this for Christmas...