Travel after vaccine available but before Vaccine widely available

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, lenquixote66 said:

Zero deaths in Greenland.

 

But they have had 14 cases last one being only 29 July. So not exactly COVID19 free 🙄. 

[lenquixote66]

4 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

But they have had 14 cases last one being only 29 July. So not exactly COVID19 free 🙄. 

Nope,but no deaths

[Nic6318]

41 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I can't wait to get a vaccine that is being rushed through development and safety testing, has been given blanket liability immunity in case it turns out to be not so safe after all, and is likely to be about 50% effective.  And where 300,000,000 doses are being manufactured right now before all of the rushed testing is even done.  Because I am sure that the huge investment in manufacturing those doses would never skew the regulatory decision process assessing its safety and effectiveness.

 

Hi

 

Your assessment seems dead on. I do see a problem in how many people are actually counting on this vaccine to be able to resume a somewhat normal life. It reminds me of an article that suggested a number of people actually count on winning a lottery to be able to retire.

 

If you reside in a country with a high rate of infection, you are currently not allowed into EU countries without restrictions. Vaccines or not, why would anyone expect countries to change their criteria for allowing people into their country.  In other words, the daily numbers of new cases seen in any given country would likely still have to be low enough for another country to welcome visitors from that country. Having had a vaccine wouldn't change anything. First a country would need to allow citizens from another country entry, if so, then they would stipulate conditions. Being vaccinated may be required, but certainly not necessarily the only requirement.

[Oulton Jim]

As Devils Advocate - why would countries NOT wish to let in cruise ships IF passengers and crew had papers to prove they were Covid-free [via antibodies] -or that they had proof of vaccination?. 

[Nic6318]

1 hour ago, Oulton Jim said:

As Devils Advocate - why would countries NOT wish to let in cruise ships IF passengers and crew had papers to prove they were Covid-free [via antibodies] -or that they had proof of vaccination?. 

 

Hi

Because vaccine are not 100% effective, the antibodies would protect different people in different ways, and they would not last forever. They would more likely be willing to accept a negative test result with an isolation period, but that's not practical for cruisers and we realize even that, is not definitive. That is why even if you test negative, if you have been in contact with someone who has the virus, you should be self isolating. Otherwise, it just keeps going on and on. 

[Oulton Jim]

Nothing can ever be watertight regarding the virus -however I feel that I would be happy to go on a cruise where those two caveats applied to all passengers and crew. I think the islanders would welcome such trade as the cruise ships will bring in - I would much prefer not to be escorted around -but that is a hurdle to cross as our cruise approaches [hopefully] in Spring next year. 

[Nic6318]

40 minutes ago, Oulton Jim said:

Nothing can ever be watertight regarding the virus -however I feel that I would be happy to go on a cruise where those two caveats applied to all passengers and crew. I think the islanders would welcome such trade as the cruise ships will bring in - I would much prefer not to be escorted around -but that is a hurdle to cross as our cruise approaches [hopefully] in Spring next year. 

 

Hi

Of course, you have your perspective, I might have different criteria. Right now many people from the U.S. would be "happy" to go on a cruise, without a second thought. Someone had to tell them, no, not yet.

 

There have been some cruises leaving from E.U. ports, I believe there were issues on a number of them. Were those people being unreasonable? They did something they were allowed to do. Would you have gone on one of those cruises if it fit your schedule, or is your criteria uncompromising (vaccine & negative test result)? So, in spring, would you go if there still was no vaccine?

 

We all do what we are allowed to do if it is something that we want, some people even try to do what they are not allowed to do. Clearly, many among us, need someone to tell us what we are allowed to do. 

 

good luck, I hope it works for you next spring 

[chipmaster]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I can't wait to get a vaccine that is being rushed through development and safety testing, has been given blanket liability immunity in case it turns out to be not so safe after all, and is likely to be about 50% effective.  And where 300,000,000 doses are being manufactured right now before all of the rushed testing is even done.  Because I am sure that the huge investment in manufacturing those doses would never skew the regulatory decision process assessing its safety and effectiveness.

 

WARP speed baby, LOL you are right it will be an event the anti vaccine crowd will have so many good stories to toot their position with more data.

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, Nic6318 said:

 

Hi

 

Your assessment seems dead on. I do see a problem in how many people are actually counting on this vaccine to be able to resume a somewhat normal life. It reminds me of an article that suggested a number of people actually count on winning a lottery to be able to retire.

 

If you reside in a country with a high rate of infection, you are currently not allowed into EU countries without restrictions. Vaccines or not, why would anyone expect countries to change their criteria for allowing people into their country.  In other words, the daily numbers of new cases seen in any given country would likely still have to be low enough for another country to welcome visitors from that country. Having had a vaccine wouldn't change anything. First a country would need to allow citizens from another country entry, if so, then they would stipulate conditions. Being vaccinated may be required, but certainly not necessarily the only requirement.

 

Vaccines are simply a faster path to herd immunity with hopefully minimum deaths.  We still need to reach herd immunity which will take a good 4-6 months after we get to sufficient immunity either from exposure or vaccine and extended period of low testing.   Figure that will be late next year fall 2021 if we even find a few candidate vaccines by the end of the year and they don't have a equally outcome like the US test kit debacle, remember same cast of characters for these two, LOL

[TNcruising02]

I am glad people all over the world are working on vaccines and testing quickly. This is an unusual time and definitely requires unusual methods.  Many lives can be saved by moving things along.  I know my two high risk relatives are waiting for a vaccine so they can actually attend a family party, go to the grocery store, and do many other things.  They shouldn't have to wait years because some people are afraid that vaccine testing is moving too quickly.

Companies are already stockpiling the vaccines in the chance that if they are deemed effective, they can roll them out quickly.  If someone doesn't want to get the vaccine, then they shouldn't.  As far as cruising, I would have no problem with any requirements for proof of a vaccine.  Although nothing is 100% effective, if everyone who boarded the cruise ship had the vaccine, it would extremely limit any covid issues.  Testing has also gotten much better, so there's no telling what type of testing will be available by the end of the year.  Since the vaccines are already being stockpiled, I don't think it will be a huge problem once one becomes available.  There will always be people who just don't want to get it.

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

Nope,but no deaths

 

I think you misunderstood what I was responding to. The poster was talking about countries with no active cases not the death rate, that was why I was saying Greenland can't be included in the list because it does have an active case. 

[ilikeanswers]

4 hours ago, Oulton Jim said:

I think the islanders would welcome such trade as the cruise ships will bring in

 

If countries wanted cruises they would remove or create exceptions in their COVID19 precautions that would make it feasible for cruise ships to do business. The fact they haven't probably means there is stronger demand for the precautions than the cruise ships in those places 😕. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If countries wanted cruises they would remove or create exceptions in their COVID19 precautions that would make it feasible for cruise ships to do business. The fact they haven't probably means there is stronger demand for the precautions than the cruise ships in those places 😕. 

Which makes sense.  The direct cost  (treatment) and indirect cost (possible shut-down)  of further spread will , in many (if not all) cases far exceed the economic benefit to a port city of a few thousand day-trippers (seeking to minimize expenses) coming off a cruise ship.

[mnocket]

8 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

Vaccines are simply a faster path to herd immunity with hopefully minimum deaths.  We still need to reach herd immunity which will take a good 4-6 months after we get to sufficient immunity either from exposure or vaccine and extended period of low testing.   Figure that will be late next year fall 2021 if we even find a few candidate vaccines by the end of the year and they don't have a equally outcome like the US test kit debacle, remember same cast of characters for these two, LOL

Didn't I read that in order to achieve herd immunity a vaccine would have to be 70% effective and administered to 70% of the population? 

[Wayfairers]

15 hours ago, TNcruising02 said:

I am glad people all over the world are working on vaccines and testing quickly. This is an unusual time and definitely requires unusual methods.  Many lives can be saved by moving things along.  I know my two high risk relatives are waiting for a vaccine so they can actually attend a family party, go to the grocery store, and do many other things.  They shouldn't have to wait years because some people are afraid that vaccine testing is moving too quickly.

Companies are already stockpiling the vaccines in the chance that if they are deemed effective, they can roll them out quickly.  If someone doesn't want to get the vaccine, then they shouldn't.  As far as cruising, I would have no problem with any requirements for proof of a vaccine.  Although nothing is 100% effective, if everyone who boarded the cruise ship had the vaccine, it would extremely limit any covid issues.  Testing has also gotten much better, so there's no telling what type of testing will be available by the end of the year.  Since the vaccines are already being stockpiled, I don't think it will be a huge problem once one becomes available.  There will always be people who just don't want to get it.

Well said.  I don’t expect cruising to start at full capacity when a vaccine is available.  I believe once a vaccine is available to the general public that there will still be outbreaks amongst those who refuse the vaccine and because of that I hope we will have to show proof of vaccination when boarding any public transportation...planes, cruise ships, ferries, trains, etc.  

 

Another thought....even with a yearly flu vaccination you can still get the flu, either because you caught a strain that wasn’t in the vaccination or you didn’t build enough antibodies, but it is almost always a lighter case than you would have had without the vaccination.  No reason to believe that won’t be the case for Covid. 

[evandbob]

What's the rush?  And why?  I'll resume cruising and other travel when it's as safe as it was pre-covid. 

[Nic6318]

23 minutes ago, evandbob said:

What's the rush?  And why?  I'll resume cruising and other travel when it's as safe as it was pre-covid. 

 

Hi

 

I think the answer to this question, for many on this site, is because the cruise lines only have so much money. If any of them fail, there goes all those FCC, OBC, deposits, etc., not to mention the inconvenience. 

 

I think most of us who are not in that line, would be willing till it really is safe. As you say, "what's the rush?". 

[TNcruising02]

1 hour ago, Wayfairers said:

Well said.  I don’t expect cruising to start at full capacity when a vaccine is available.  I believe once a vaccine is available to the general public that there will still be outbreaks amongst those who refuse the vaccine and because of that I hope we will have to show proof of vaccination when boarding any public transportation...planes, cruise ships, ferries, trains, etc.  

 

Another thought....even with a yearly flu vaccination you can still get the flu, either because you caught a strain that wasn’t in the vaccination or you didn’t build enough antibodies, but it is almost always a lighter case than you would have had without the vaccination.  No reason to believe that won’t be the case for Covid. 

"
While I don't think domestic flights within the US will ever require proof of vaccination, proof might be required to travel internationally and to cruise.  I am fine with that and think it's reasonable.  Other countries and cruise lines have a right to limit risks associated with covid.

[Toofarfromthesea]

On 8/7/2020 at 11:36 AM, 2wheelin said:

This ranks right up there with conspiracy theories. Several of the vaccines in phase 3 trials have been in production for some time. When approved there will be millions of doses slated for rapid deployment. There are already plans drawn up for distribution.

Vaccines being rushed through is mostly done by removing impediments of red tape. There is no waiting in line for approval after the backlog of other drugs. Think of it as leap frog rather than lowering of standards.

All of the skeptics not willing to be vaccinated will certainly provide enough supply for the rest of us.

 

You ARE aware that the biggest vaccine producer is being given blanket liability  immunity in case it turns out the vaccine isn't as safe as they had hoped?   But you feel free to get it.

[Toofarfromthesea]

20 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

WARP speed baby, LOL you are right it will be an event the anti vaccine crowd will have so many good stories to toot their position with more data.

 

Things that are safe do not need the blanket immunity from liability that is being given to these companies.

[nosapphire]

45 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Things that are safe do not need the blanket immunity from liability that is being given to these companies.

 

There is NO drug/medicine/vaccine whatsoever that never has side effects.

Do we all stop taking them?

No - we use common sense to decide whether the (usually remote) risk of side effect is less than the risk of not taking the drug.

 

 

 

[chipmaster]

10 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

 

There is NO drug/medicine/vaccine whatsoever that never has side effects.

Do we all stop taking them?

No - we use common sense to decide whether the (usually remote) risk of side effect is less than the risk of not taking the drug.

 

 

 

 

Nothing in life doesn't have consequences as we are seeing so clearly now.

 

Choices in lifestyle ( diet/exercise), freedom/liberty, as well as things like medication don't have material impact, sometimes you just don't know for months or decades....

 

Now we are living some of those tradeoffs, and once a vaccine comes to, people will make their choices as will countries that will have material bearing on what other people can do.

[JAMESCC]

 
There is NO drug/medicine/vaccine whatsoever that never has side effects.
Do we all stop taking them?
No - we use common sense to decide whether the (usually remote) risk of side effect is less than the risk of not taking the drug.
 
 
 

And the reports so far are that the "side effects" are slight fever and soar arm where the shot was given. Let's not run for the hills over those "side effects".

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

[sfaaa]

5 hours ago, evandbob said:

What's the rush?  And why?  I'll resume cruising and other travel when it's as safe as it was pre-covid. 

FCC with expiry date. Use it or lose it. 

[2wheelin]

5 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

You ARE aware that the biggest vaccine producer is being given blanket liability  immunity in case it turns out the vaccine isn't as safe as they had hoped?   But you feel free to get it.

There are always some side effects and those from vaccines are usually pretty minor. The immunity is to protect them from the frivolous lawsuits of people who will try any excuse to get money. Think McD’s coffee too hot and customer burned when they spilled it in their lap while driving. 

Thank you for giving me permission to get the vaccine.