Haters Trying To Influence CDC

[latserrof]

19 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Good. Let’s set aside a day next week and do that.

Sorry, I'm tied up next week with Project Fear; could we make it the week after?

[Aquahound]

43 minutes ago, Ashland said:

I didn't think this applied to the Coast Guard evacuations ? Those I've seen many times.

 

Correct.  USCG does not charge for medevacs. 

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, KnowTheScore said:

 

Good grief have you ever actually taken a cruise?!!!!

 

 

6 hours ago, latserrof said:

70-plus cruises all around the world since 1981, on a variety of lines. None required travel insurance.

 

4 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Same here 60 cruises and none required travel insurance. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

 

More than 30 cruises.  Not a single line required travel insurance of any kind.  

[ldubs]

57 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Good. Let’s set aside a day next week and do that. You know that your plan would need to have EVERYONE tested at once or you still would not know. We test asymptomatic people here. And if you also want to know who has had it, that is another test. So two tests per person. Maybe we need a day and a half.

 

Were I am anyone can get a test.  My nieces and nephews who are back at work get tested routinely just as a precaution.  

 

Early on because of limited resources, the tests were rationed to folks with symptoms and essential workers.  Seemed like a pretty smart thing to do.  But that has been gone now for a long time.   

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

...

 

I also saw a passenger get dropped off of an NCL cruise ship at an unscheduled stop at Huatulco Mexico last fall.  We there on a land vacation and saw the ship come in and put someone into a ambulance.  I was kind of surprised as health care in Huatulco isn't all that great and the town doesn't even have a real hospital.  

Of course NCL was primarily interested in off-loading the sick passenger ASAP - and was going to do do so at the first/nearest opportunity, rather than wait until better treatment might be assured.

[Hlitner]

On 9/21/2020 at 3:54 PM, SelectSys said:

 

I too have only seen this once on a cruise traveling along the coast of Portugal heading to Gibraltar from Southampton.  I am not sure what happened to the individual, but it made for some extra excitement seeing a person being winched up into a helicopter.  I was expecting a landing, but the helicopter simply matched the ship's course and speed and dropped down a stretcher to lift the individual up. 

 

I also saw a passenger get dropped off of an NCL cruise ship at an unscheduled stop at Huatulco Mexico last fall.  We there on a land vacation and saw the ship come in and put someone into a ambulance.  I was kind of surprised as health care in Huatulco isn't all that great and the town doesn't even have a real hospital.  

I want to comment on your post from one frequent cruiser to another.  In the interest of full disclosure I also live in Mexico for about 10 weeks a year.  Cruise ship physicians serve a few different roles  While they are responsible for the health/safety of those who need their services they also have an obligation to do their best to support the mission of the ship...which is to stay on schedule.  Cruise ship physicians go to great lengths to avoid having to evacuate a passenger or crew member for an emergency that can not be handled onboard.  When a passenger or crew member has an injury or illness that, in the judgement of the physician, could reasonably impact the cruise to be diverted or delayed, they will evacuate the passenger off the ship at the nearest port.  This is also done because the physician feels that the person can access better and more comprehensive healthcare ashore that they can get on the ship.  I say this from personal experience (DW was essentially forced off a Princess cruise in Japan because of an injury).  

 

Being evacuated to Huatulco is probably a better option then staying aboard for most serious medical emergencies.  Healthcare in Mexico is pretty good, plus once that passenger is ashore there is the option of medically evacuating them to a larger city (with a major hospital) or even back to their home country.  Huatulco does have its own airport.  But if stuck on a ship at sea such an evacuation is questionable (depending on location and weather) and dangerous.   We live in Puerto Vallarta during the winter and have seen a few cruise ships make an unscheduled port call to off load patients.

 

When DW had a leg injury and was being treated by a Princess physician he was OK with seeing her on a daily basis.  But our cruise was proceeding North and in about 10 days would leave Japan to cross over to Alaska.  The physician noted that we would have a 9 day period where she would be out of range of getting to decent land care so while he was OK keeping her aboard as we worked our way around Japan he was not comfortable in having her aboard for more then a week when there was no way of getting her to a major health facility if it became medically necessary.  Once he explained this to our insurance company they agreed to pay for medical evacuation from Japan (they did not want to risk a long hospital stay in Japan).  I mention this because the physicians recommendation did rely, somewhat, on the future itinerary of the ship and the ability to access shoreside healthcare.

 

Hank

 

Hank

[SelectSys]

18 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I want to comment on your post from one frequent cruiser to another.  In the interest of full disclosure I also live in Mexico for about 10 weeks a year...

 

Being evacuated to Huatulco is probably a better option then staying aboard for most serious medical emergencies.  Healthcare in Mexico is pretty good, plus once that passenger is ashore there is the option of medically evacuating them to a larger city (with a major hospital) or even back to their home country.  Huatulco does have its own airport.  But if stuck on a ship at sea such an evacuation is questionable (depending on location and weather) and dangerous.   We live in Puerto Vallarta during the winter and have seen a few cruise ships make an unscheduled port call to off load patients.

 

...

 

Hank

 

I know from your other posts that you spend a fair amount of time in Mexico.  Mexican healthcare varies quite a bit from location to location and state to state.  The difference between the public system, which most of the population uses, and the private system in also quite dramatic.  Private healthcare in the big cities is quite good.  A surprising number of people where I live cross south to get most of their health care in Tijuana as opposed to the US.  Price and quality for all but the most complicated procedures is on par with that available in the US in the private system.

 

Unfortunately Huatulco isn't in the best location for health care.  Maybe the plan was for a Medivac from the airport as the closest private hospital I am aware of is in Puerto Escondido.  This hospital is at least  2 hours away from the cruise port and is pretty small.  The ride to Oaxaca City is over 5 hours along narrow, mountain roads.

 

A Canadian expat who runs a B&B  and lives full time in Huatulco said they go to Mexico City for their healthcare. The owners are actually trying to sell the place to move closer to a big city for healthcare as they are getting older and worry about emergencies.

 

What was interesting about the NCL ship was that their next scheduled port stop was in PV.  This would have seemed a much better location as PV is a large city with lots of healthcare available as well as being reasonably close to Guadalajara. I am not second guessing the shop, but I know that I wouldn't want to have a major medical problem in Huatulco.

 

One thing everyone should know in Mexico is that the system is different and you could be asked to pay in advance for treatment even though the law says otherwise.  Here is a reasonable starter link:

https://blog.oncallinternational.com/medical-care-in-mexico-some-surprising-risks-and-how-travelers-can-prepare/

 

 

 

 

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

On 9/20/2020 at 6:14 AM, Butterbean1000 said:

When is the madness going stop?  Are we going to stop living?  We can't  cruise. We can't go to sports events. Kids can't trick or treat.  Fall festivals are being canceled.  People have to work 8+ hours a day wearing a mask and that's not healthy.  Kids can't go to school and parents are struggling to keep up.  This is not living.  Sorry, I just had to get this out.

Not true. I have worked in surgery for 12 hour shifts with off and on (mostly on) mask wearing, and on covid floors where we have to wear the masks for the entire 12 hour shift. I have not seem a single coworker collapse from wearing a mask in my 25 years of nursing. Mask wearing is not unhealthy.

[clo]

15 minutes ago, Steve and Sharon said:

Not true. I have worked in surgery for 12 hour shifts with off and on (mostly on) mask wearing, and on covid floors where we have to wear the masks for the entire 12 hour shift. I have not seem a single coworker collapse from wearing a mask in my 25 years of nursing. Mask wearing is not unhealthy.

Thank you. I've read more than one health care professional say the same thing. Keep up the good work. Maybe eventually someone will believe y'all.

[Butterbean1000]

58 minutes ago, Steve and Sharon said:

Not true. I have worked in surgery for 12 hour shifts with off and on (mostly on) mask wearing, and on covid floors where we have to wear the masks for the entire 12 hour shift. I have not seem a single coworker collapse from wearing a mask in my 25 years of nursing. Mask wearing is not unhealthy.

Fair enough. However, the everyday person wearing a mask is not in an already sterile area.  How many people are wearing the same mask more than once without washing or throwing away?  People are constantly taking them off and on with unwashed hands.  People are sharing them.  So comparing a nurse wearing a mask and John Q Public wearing a mask is apples and oranges. 

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

9 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Fair enough. However, the everyday person wearing a mask is not in an already sterile area.  How many people are wearing the same mask more than once without washing or throwing away?  People are constantly taking them off and on with unwashed hands.  People are sharing them.  So comparing a nurse wearing a mask and John Q Public wearing a mask is apples and oranges. 

You can't teach people what they don't want to learn, such as how to properly treat and wear a mask. But just saying wearing a mask in general is unhealthy is just wrong.

[Butterbean1000]

15 minutes ago, Steve and Sharon said:

You can't teach people what they don't want to learn, such as how to properly treat and wear a mask. But just saying wearing a mask in general is unhealthy is just wrong.

with all due respect, with what we know about how people are wearing their masks, saying there is no risks is wrong, too.  Our local hospital has seen a spike in respiratory illnesses and infections over the pass few months. They are attributing this to the improper wearing of masks. This nugget of information came from my doctor.  We can agree to disagree. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Butterbean1000

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

Just now, Butterbean1000 said:

with all due respect, with what we know about how people are wearing their masks, saying there is no risks is wrong, too.  Our local hospital has seen a spike in respiratory illnesses and infections over the pass few months. They are attributing this to the improper wearing of masks. This nugget of information came from my doctor.  We can agree to disagree. 

I did not say there was no risk. I said people chose to wear masks improperly even though they have been told how to wear them properly. I personally have not heard of transmission due to improperly wearing a mask. I would like to know more about that. Until then, we will agree to disagree.

[mom says]

34 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Fair enough. However, the everyday person wearing a mask is not in an already sterile area.  How many people are wearing the same mask more than once without washing or throwing away?  People are constantly taking them off and on with unwashed hands.  People are sharing them.  So comparing a nurse wearing a mask and John Q Public wearing a mask is apples and oranges. 

So basically,  those people got sick because they were either too stupid, lazy, or ignorant (take your pick) to wear them properly. Actually,  since guidance on how to properly wear a mask has been readily available to the general public for months, we can pretty much eliminate the ignorance option.

[Butterbean1000]

4 minutes ago, Steve and Sharon said:

I did not say there was no risk. I said people chose to wear masks improperly even though they have been told how to wear them properly. I personally have not heard of transmission due to improperly wearing a mask. I would like to know more about that. Until then, we will agree to disagree.

 

4 minutes ago, Steve and Sharon said:

I did not say there was no risk. I said people chose to wear masks improperly even though they have been told how to wear them properly. I personally have not heard of transmission due to improperly wearing a mask. I would like to know more about that. Until then, we will agree to disagree.

Just to be clear, I did not say transmission of the virus, I meant lung infections from breathing through dirty masks for an extended amount of  time.

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

1 minute ago, Butterbean1000 said:

 

Just to be clear, I did not say transmission of the virus, I meant lung infections from breathing through dirty masks for an extended amount of  time.

They must be some pretty dirty people then!

[Butterbean1000]

Just now, mom says said:

So basically,  those people got sick because they were either too stupid, lazy, or ignorant (take your pick) to wear them properly. Actually,  since guidance on how to properly wear a mask has been readily available to the general public for months, we can pretty much eliminate the ignorance option.

Really?  We all know that smoking kills and but there are people who still smoke. You can preach, teach, and nag, you cannot save people from themselves.

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

Just now, Butterbean1000 said:

Really?  We all know that smoking kills and but there are people who still smoke. You can preach, teach, and nag, you cannot save people from themselves.

Exactly. Stupid is as stupid does.

[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Really?  We all know that smoking kills and but there are people who still smoke. You can preach, teach, and nag, you cannot save people from themselves.

 

But what you are saying now is not exactly the same thing as saying that "People have to work 8+ hours a day wearing a mask and that's not healthy."

 

It's only not healthy when you don't follow the guidelines. One could also say it is not healthy to use a kleenex/tissue over and over. That doesn't equate to saying that using such tissues is unhealthy.

 

[Butterbean1000]

1 minute ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

But what you are saying now is not exactly the same thing as saying that "People have to work 8+ hours a day wearing a mask and that's not healthy."

 

It's only not healthy when you don't follow the guidelines. One could also say it is not healthy to use a kleenex/tissue over and over. That doesn't equate to saying that using such tissues is unhealthy.

 

All I'm saying is that a large number of people don't follow the guidelines.   I guess you can include me in that.  I have to wear a mask at work.  I wear a fresh mask every day,  however I have to remove it several times throughout the day.  I have to adjust it quite often because it fogs my glasses. I cough through it.  I've sneezed through it.  All I am saying is that it gets full of germs and I consider myself a clean person.

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

1 minute ago, Butterbean1000 said:

All I'm saying is that a large number of people don't follow the guidelines.   I guess you can include me in that.  I have to wear a mask at work.  I wear a fresh mask every day,  however I have to remove it several times throughout the day.  I have to adjust it quite often because it fogs my glasses. I cough through it.  I've sneezed through it.  All I am saying is that it gets full of germs and I consider myself a clean person.

Have you gotten covid yet? Don't answer, I know it's none of my business. I'm just saying... Maybe try to follow the guidelines? And there are better masks out there that help with the glasses fogging up.

[Cruzaholic41]

5 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I cough through it.  I've sneezed through it.  All I am saying is that it gets full of germs and I consider myself a clean person.

Then there’s that lovely fragrance the rest of the day after eating a spicy lunch. 😉

[Butterbean1000]

1 minute ago, Steve and Sharon said:

Have you gotten covid yet? Don't answer, I know it's none of my business. I'm just saying... Maybe try to follow the guidelines? And there are better masks out there that help with the glasses fogging up.

Funny you should ask.  My son and I are both sick right now.  We took a COVID test a couple of days ago and are waiting for the results. We have quarantined ourselves.  I just got notice from work today that someone has been confirmed COVID positive.  

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

4 minutes ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Then there’s that lovely fragrance the rest of the day after eating a spicy lunch. 😉

That's one thing I've learned, don't eat spicy food before or at work!

Edited September 24, 2020 by Steve and Sharon

[S&S Cruisers 1983]

4 minutes ago, Butterbean1000 said:

Funny you should ask.  My son and I are both sick right now.  We took a COVID test a couple of days ago and are waiting for the results. We have quarantined ourselves.  I just got notice from work today that someone has been confirmed COVID positive.  

I wish you both well and a speedy recovery. Hopefully it's not covid. I hope you continue to mask up after you recover, for you and for all around you.