White House Proposes Cruises to begin Nov 1st in US!!!

[broberts]

On 9/30/2020 at 10:48 AM, BermudaBound2014 said:

I absolutely agree that this outcome was much more positive than it could have been. Banning until February 15 in one large swoop seems incredibly short sighted. Can you imagine what cruisers would be feeling today if the ban had actually been extended for 4.5 months?!?!

.... 

 

I think it very short sighted to go month to month on the ban. We should accept reality and start working on long term plans.

 

As the CDC pointed out, experience in Europe has provided sufficient data to confirm that it is not possible to cruise COVID free. Coupled with the exceedingly high US infection rates leads to the conclusion that cruising from the U.S. is not a viable option.

 

Until safe and effective vaccine are generally available cruising will not be viable.

[broberts]

23 minutes ago, Beardface said:

...The thing is, the CDC is allowing everyone else to open back up, but they are holding the cruise industry to a much more ridiculous premise than the rest where they aren't going to be allowed to operate until the virus is eradicated,...

 

This suggests that all businesses should be treated the same. I can't think of another business that places several thousand people in close proximity for days. A business that for long periods may be utterly unable to cope with the quite possibly rapid onset of deadly symptoms even in one person, let alone several dozen.

 

The CDC is holding the cruise industry to a different standard because its primary directive is to protect the lives of U.S. citizens, not the profitability of a few foreign and domestic corporations.

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, broberts said:

 

The CDC is holding the cruise industry to a different standard because its primary directive is to protect the lives of U.S. citizens, not the profitability of a few foreign and domestic corporations

 

The question has been raised some weeks ago on CC that the lack of U.S. taxes paid by companies whose ships are foreign flagged may have something to do with what the CDC is doing.  

[shipgeeks]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

 

 

As the CDC pointed out, experience in Europe has provided sufficient data to confirm that it is not possible to cruise COVID free. 

???

All of the European cruises I've read about have been covid-free (MSC, TUI).

[broberts]

53 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

???

All of the European cruises I've read about have been covid-free (MSC, TUI).

 

Given how open cruise lines are with information I am not surprised.

 

For those who river cruise, there is https://thepointsguy.com/news/croisieurope-river-cruise-covid-outbreak/.

[hamrag]

5 hours ago, KennyFla said:

NeverCruiser:  Somebody that doesn't feel safe cruising, so does not want anybody else to be able to cruise.

Yes, we'd worked that one out! 😉

[Sunshine3601]

4 hours ago, broberts said:

 

As the CDC pointed out, experience in Europe has provided sufficient data to confirm that it is not possible to cruise COVID free. 

I think you had a typo here.    Cruises have been happening in Europe since the end of July and ALL sailings have been Free of Covid-19.       Have you read the 50+ page report of Health Protocols prepared by RCL or watched any of the videos from MSC or TUI.    They have some very good procedures in place that are working.     If everyone continues to follow the procedures they should be just fine. 

If you don't feel comfortable with the new restrictions when announced, then you don't have to sail, as simple as that!

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I think you had a typo here.    Cruises have been happening in Europe since the end of July and ALL sailings have been Free of Covid-19.       Have you read the 50+ page report of Health Protocols prepared by RCL or watched any of the videos from MSC or TUI.    They have some very good procedures in place that are working.     If everyone continues to follow the procedures they should be just fine. 

If you don't feel comfortable with the new restrictions when announced, then you don't have to sail, as simple as that!

 

It wasn't a typo, he is a NeverCruiser.

Your final sentence says it all.  A+++

[Sunshine3601]

2 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

The question has been raised some weeks ago on CC that the lack of U.S. taxes paid by companies whose ships are foreign flagged may have something to do with what the CDC is doing.  

That is true but if you look at the big picture of the money brought into every US Cruise Port (airports, hotels, taxi's, restaurants, workers at cruise terminals, etc. etc. ) that is should speak for itself.

I suspect Pence and the white house administration that is meeting with the cruiseline executives on Friday will give them the "green" light with adding some of their own requirements in addition to what the cruiselines are proposing. 

 

[rkacruiser]

28 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

That is true but if you look at the big picture of the money brought into every US Cruise Port (airports, hotels, taxi's, restaurants, workers at cruise terminals, etc. etc. ) that is should speak for itself.

 

Agree that the hospitality industry and its employees are suffering.  Why now and not weeks ago?  Does the date of November 3, 2020 have anything to do with this?  

[BermudaBound2014]

5 hours ago, broberts said:

 

I think it very short sighted to go month to month on the ban. We should accept reality and start working on long term plans.

 

I agree that canceling month to month is not optimal, but canceling through February 15th on September 30th seems very hard handed given how rapid technology is evolving to handle Covid.  Hawaii Airlines, United, and Alaska Air have all implemented rapid covid testing inside airports. CCL did the right thing today. Cancelled everything through 2020 with a few exceptions sailing from PC and Miami. IMO it's going to be a very slow start, but it is time to start for those that feel comfortable doing so. Slow, steady, and cautious. The cruise industry is primed to be a scapegoat for this virus and we need to go slow to go fast imo.

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I suspect Pence and the white house administration that is meeting with the cruiseline executives on Friday will give them the "green" light with adding some of their own requirements in addition to what the cruiselines are proposing. 

 

 

 

Sounds like some people are putting the cart before the horse. Get the epidemic under control, then cruise.

 

You don't have to get back to zero covid. NY is in a good place, as is Italy. Just get within grasping distance...

 

 

[crazyank]

14 hours ago, broberts said:

As the CDC pointed out, experience in Europe has provided sufficient data to confirm that it is not possible to cruise COVID free. Coupled with the exceedingly high US infection rates leads to the conclusion that cruising from the U.S. is not a viable option.

 

Until safe and effective vaccine are generally available cruising will not be viable.

Huh??  Since cruising restarted in Europe every single cruise has been Covid free.  The recent alleged out break on one ship was proved to be a completely false alarm. 

[KennyFla]

6 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Sounds like some people are putting the cart before the horse. Get the epidemic under control, then cruise.

 

You don't have to get back to zero covid. NY is in a good place, as is Italy. Just get within grasping distance...

 

 

 

 

NY is in a good place because they are totally shut down.  When they open they will spike just like Fla, Tx.  Now the states that opened are starting to stabilize, and are up and running.  An article of the impact of the shutdown in NY:

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/half-of-nyc-restaurants-bars-may-close-for-good-due-to-covid-19-audit

 

 

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

NY is in a good place because they are totally shut down.  When they open they will spike just like Fla, Tx.  Now the states that opened are starting to stabilize, and are up and running.  An article of the impact of the shutdown in NY:

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/half-of-nyc-restaurants-bars-may-close-for-good-due-to-covid-19-audit

 

 

NY is Not in total shutdown.  They have had many things open since May/June.   Yes restaurants and bars are hurting but that is happening for many states due to restrictions of either outdoor seating or 25 to 50% capacity. 

 

[HappyInVan]

3 hours ago, KennyFla said:

 

NY is in a good place because they are totally shut down.  When they open they will spike just like Fla, Tx.  Now the states that opened are starting to stabilize, and are up and running.  An article of the impact of the shutdown in NY:

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/half-of-nyc-restaurants-bars-may-close-for-good-due-to-covid-19-audit

 

 

 

What do you think is going to happen to FL in 60 days?

Back in June, Ron reopened too soon against the advise of the scientists. On June 1, there were 56k cases. By September 30, 710k cases. What do you think it will be by January?

 

You've got no strategy linked to science. To use the full arsenal of tools effectively, Index your reopening to progress on infections. Make some sacrifices to buy time for treatments and vaccines.

 

I'm out of patience. I want to travel and cruise. Let's form a bubble (positivity rate 1-2%) between Canada, Italy and the northeast. Cruise out of New York to Canada and Italy. That would create jobs.

 

Quarantine the problematic areas. Leave the clever people to play games with covid19. Who do you think will win?

 

 

[capriccio]

4 hours ago, crazyank said:

Huh??  Since cruising restarted in Europe every single cruise has been Covid free. 

 

Not true.  There was a major outbreak in early August on a Hurtigruten ship plus there has been a recent outbreak on a river cruise in Portugal.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/03/hurtigruten-covid-19-outbreak-passengers-crew-infected-cruise/5570867002/

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/croisieurope-river-cruise-covid-outbreak/

[HappyInVan]

BTW, NY has been reopening in an orderly manner, linked to progress in the number of infections.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_New_York_(state)#September

 

“A statewide stay-at-home order, also known as the "New York State on PAUSE" executive order, was signed into law by Governor Andrew Cuomo on March 20... Every region met the requirements for Phase 1 by June 8, with New York City being the last. Regions moved to the next consecutive phase every two weeks, with a few exceptions... By September 5, New York had maintained 30 straight days with an infection rate below 1 percent, at an average of 0.80 percent...”

 

That's why they are in a good place.

 

 

[Sunshine3601]

58 minutes ago, capriccio said:

 

Not true.  There was a major outbreak in early August on a Hurtigruten ship plus there has been a recent outbreak on a river cruise in Portugal.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/03/hurtigruten-covid-19-outbreak-passengers-crew-infected-cruise/5570867002/

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/croisieurope-river-cruise-covid-outbreak/

I'm referring to the major cruiselines that have very good health protocols in place.  MSC tui etc.  These small lines or river cruise with 67 passengers were not testing everyone before boarding.  There are ways for major cruiselines to restart in the US just like europe.  

Northeast ports where cases are very low would be a good option but I dont know those governors will allow their ports to reopen for cruises.  I'm not even sure if governors have any say in their ports but time will tell.  

[KennyFla]

2 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I'm out of patience. I want to travel and cruise. Let's form a bubble (positivity rate 1-2%) between Canada, Italy and the northeast. Cruise out of New York to Canada and Italy. That would create jobs.

 

Quarantine the problematic areas. Leave the clever people to play games with covid19. Who do you think will win?

 

 

 

I don't know why you keep harping on this.  If you disagree with the way Fla has handled the situation, stay away.  The majority of the people that live here are OK with it.  There is no pie in the sky solution.  You either lockdown and wait for an effective vaccine that is widely available, or you open up and try to manage the spike, protecting people as much as possible.  Those are the options right now.

[DCGuy64]

2 hours ago, capriccio said:

 

Not true.  There was a major outbreak in early August on a Hurtigruten ship plus there has been a recent outbreak on a river cruise in Portugal.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2020/08/03/hurtigruten-covid-19-outbreak-passengers-crew-infected-cruise/5570867002/

 

https://thepointsguy.com/news/croisieurope-river-cruise-covid-outbreak/

The Hurtigruten outbreak was due to proper protocols not being followed. As time goes on, since human beings are fallible, there *may* be isolated incidents. Now, some people may be tempted to say "see? These slipups are why cruising shouldn't resume." Wrong. It means that mistakes are made and learned from. Which is why MSC and Costa, as well as TUI, have been able to cruise risk-free since then. There is no such thing as a cruise utopia, so if that's your standard, you'll be forever disappointed. The rest of us will move on with our lives and keep sailing.

[HappyInVan]

23 minutes ago, KennyFla said:

 

I don't know why you keep harping on this.  If you disagree with the way Fla has handled the situation, stay away.  The majority of the people that live here are OK with it.  There is no pie in the sky solution.  You either lockdown and wait for an effective vaccine that is widely available, or you open up and try to manage the spike, protecting people as much as possible.  Those are the options right now.

 

Do you have a plan to get to the good place? To restart cruising like MSC in Italy. You don't seem to care about the success stories. Suit yourself. 

[capriccio]

14 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The rest of us will move on with our lives and keep sailing.

 

I pointed out that the comment was inaccurate.  I do want to reassure you that we too are 'moving on with our lives', it just won't include cruising until there is a vaccine (plus no need for masks or cruise company excursions) and others have been the test subjects on the efficacy of the new cruise line procedures.  So we thank 'the rest of you' who will keep sailing.

[Formula280SS]

24 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

The Hurtigruten outbreak was due to proper protocols not being followed. As time goes on, since human beings are fallible, there *may* be isolated incidents. Now, some people may be tempted to say "see? These slipups are why cruising shouldn't resume." Wrong. It means that mistakes are made and learned from. Which is why MSC and Costa, as well as TUI, have been able to cruise risk-free since then. There is no such thing as a cruise utopia, so if that's your standard, you'll be forever disappointed. The rest of us will move on with our lives and keep sailing.

 

Yep, as was predicted.

 

[DCGuy64]

47 minutes ago, capriccio said:

 

I pointed out that the comment was inaccurate.  I do want to reassure you that we too are 'moving on with our lives', it just won't include cruising until there is a vaccine (plus no need for masks or cruise company excursions) and others have been the test subjects on the efficacy of the new cruise line procedures.  So we thank 'the rest of you' who will keep sailing.

We need more folks like you who truly believe in "live and let live."  BTW the Shenandoah Valley is beautiful. We were just there in July and August.