Will B2Bs be allowed?

[HaveWeMetYet]

It will be hard for the cruise line to get a ship turned around in a single day with all the rules they have to follow. I suppose if the ship is in port at 5 am and sails back out at10pm maybe so. Disembarkation is going to be very slow in order to meet the social distancing requirement not only getting off the ship but in the  terminal. Same with getting on the ship.

I would not count on any Eastern Caribbean runs for several months if not well into 2021. Think Labadee, Coco Cay and maybe Key West for the first half of 2021.

[ipeeinthepool]

10 minutes ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

I would not count on any Eastern Caribbean runs for several months if not well into 2021. Think Labadee, Coco Cay and maybe Key West for the first half of 2021.

 

Ok, sign me up.

[ReneeFLL]

1 hour ago, bouhunter said:

No one knows that for sure.  It's in no way clearly addressed at this point.

I guess I should have stated that they won't allow it in the beginning. Addressed or not it won't be happening.

[kruzn63]

I saw a booking that a friend made last week for a b2b , 7 days each, out of San Juan.   RCI is accepting  b2b bookings at least for now.

[cublet]

Hello,

 

I think three things:

 

1. The 7 night restriction is on the cruise-line not the passenger; However
2. The possible B2B restriction *MAY* (if it transpires) be a restriction on the cruise-line not the passenger and by this I mean there will not be a 'turn-round DAY' but a couple of days whilst the ship is deep cleaned and disinfected; Therefore
3. B2B passengers *MAY* not be allowed by the cruise-line (not CDC) because they will be in the way whilst all the cleaning/disinfecting takes place.

 

Regards,

 

Cublet

[resordanis]

We have booked a B2B with a 12 day cruise followed by an 8 day cruise. Hopefully will happen, but Royal have taken our money, so hopefully will refund if we cannot do this length of cruise. Not until December 2021 so hopefully will be ok.

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, njkruzer said:

Yes.  Most b2b in the US start and end at the same port.  But yes, can't sail Boston to Miami without a distant foreign port.  If you then sail Miami round trip you were on a separate cruise.  That's ok.

While your statement that the two cruises together are legal is correct, your reasoning is not.  CBP does not care how the cruises are advertised, how they are sold, or how much time has passed between booking the two legs.  CBP only looks at where the passenger embarked the ship, and where the passenger permanently disembarked the ship.  So, for PVSA concerns, two back to back cruises are counted as one cruise by CBP.

 

Let's take your example:

Leg one:  Boston to Miami, with a distant port:  legal as a stand alone cruise

Leg two:  Miami round trip Miami, no distant port, legal as a stand alone cruise

B2B:  Legal, because the total trip is Boston to Miami, but with a distant foreign port

 

Now, another example:

Leg one:  Honolulu to Vancouver:  legal as a stand alone cruise, since it ends in a foreign port

Leg two:  Vancouver to Anchorage:  legal as a stand alone cruise, since it starts in a foreign port

B2B:  Not legal, since the total trip is Honolulu to Anchorage, without a distant foreign port

 

So, you see, if the Vancouver to Anchorage was considered to be a "separate" cruise, then the back to back would be legal, which it isn't.

[notmyrealnameoremail]

I think an important point is being missed here.  Although I believe CDC can make rules that directly regulate individual people, that would e the hard way for them to do it.

 

If CDC decides that people should not be able to cruise more than say 7 days in any 14 day period to limit the spread of the Corona virus, CDC will tell the cruise lines that they cannot allow anyone to board their ships if it would result in them being on cruises for more than that.  The cruise line will make you sign a statement on when you last cruised and enforce that rule on you as a passenger, likely by making passengers liable for fines and other consequences that are imposed if you lied.

 

 

 

[Ourusualbeach]

9 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

I would not count on any Eastern Caribbean runs for several months if not well into 2021. Think Labadee, Coco Cay and maybe Key West for the first half of 2021.

I doubt that you will see Royal sailing any ship small enough that will be able to call on a Key West in the first 6 months of  the year.

[livingonthebeach]

5 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I doubt that you will see Royal sailing any ship small enough that will be able to call on a Key West in the first 6 months of  the year.

 

Also to consider are the charter amendments for Key Westerners on the November 3rd ballot, that if passed will limit the size and number of cruise passengers allowed to disembark.  

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, HaveWeMetYet said:

It will be hard for the cruise line to get a ship turned around in a single day with all the rules they have to follow. I suppose if the ship is in port at 5 am and sails back out at10pm maybe so. Disembarkation is going to be very slow in order to meet the social distancing requirement not only getting off the ship but in the  terminal. Same with getting on the ship.

I would not count on any Eastern Caribbean runs for several months if not well into 2021. Think Labadee, Coco Cay and maybe Key West for the first half of 2021.

This is a very good point.  The CDC requires laboratory testing, not on-site quick testing, which takes 2-4 hours after it gets to the lab.  So, they have to get the disembarking passengers and crew samples to the lab, and cannot release the passengers until the results are back, and they cannot allow the boarding passengers to board until their results are back.

[notmyrealnameoremail]

11 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

I doubt that you will see Royal sailing any ship small enough that will be able to call on a Key West in the first 6 months of  the year.

If the voters in Key West pass the referendum that bans ships with capacity for over 1300 people, Royal won't even own a ship small enough to go there.

[ipeeinthepool]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is a very good point.  The CDC requires laboratory testing, not on-site quick testing, which takes 2-4 hours after it gets to the lab.  So, they have to get the disembarking passengers and crew samples to the lab, and cannot release the passengers until the results are back, and they cannot allow the boarding passengers to board until their results are back.

 

Perhaps the final day of the cruise will be scheduled to be at anchor outside the port and they can collect samples for everyone on the last day and transfer them to the lab for overnight testing.

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

Perhaps the final day of the cruise will be scheduled to be at anchor outside the port and they can collect samples for everyone on the last day and transfer them to the lab for overnight testing.

Either that or embark day and disembark day will become separate days.

[livingonthebeach]

On the 1st and 2nd page of the 40 page of the CDC Conditional Sail Order, it states that ships need to build onboard laboratories.  This might take a while and while they are building them, they will need to use outside testing. 

[Milwaukee Eight]

15 hours ago, twangster said:

 

 Their cruise industry shutdown hasn't been challenged in court

Can a Foreign flagged ship sue in the US,, the government (CDC)?

 

M8

Edited November 1, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[A&L_Ont]

 

1 hour ago, notmyrealnameoremail said:

If CDC decides that people should not be able to cruise more than say 7 days in any 14 day period to limit the spread of the Corona virus, CDC will tell the cruise lines that they cannot allow anyone to board their ships if it would result in them being on cruises for more than that.  The cruise line will make you sign a statement on when you last cruised and enforce that rule on you as a passenger, likely by making passengers liable for fines and other consequences that are imposed if you lied.

I can see this happening.  If the CDC makes it a stringent rule, the lines might even share lists with one another to who has sailed.  Now, if RC IT makes the program to cross reference it won’t work at all. 

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

This is a very good point.  The CDC requires laboratory testing, not on-site quick testing, which takes 2-4 hours after it gets to the lab.  So, they have to get the disembarking passengers and crew samples to the lab, and cannot release the passengers until the results are back, and they cannot allow the boarding passengers to board until their results are back.

Gone are the days of the early disembarkation rush and 9am flights for some time. 

 

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Either that or embark day and disembark day will become separate days.

I have been thinking that as well. In between sailings the crew can clean.  They can also thoroughly clean the terminal between the two groups coming through. Not to mention if a ship has an outbreak on disembarkation the embarking guests are not waiting outside. They have 18 hours notice. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by A&L_Ont

[John&LaLa]

50 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Can a Foreign flagged ship sue in the US,, the government (CDC)?

 

M8

 

Not sure, but irrate passengers might be able to

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Not sure, but irrate passengers might be able to

 

I know that US entities and individuals have sued the CDC in the past, but companies incorporated in Liberia, Panama and Bermuda such as the cruise lines, I'm not sure about. 

[chengkp75]

3 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I know that US entities and individuals have sued the CDC in the past, but companies incorporated in Liberia, Panama and Bermuda such as the cruise lines, I'm not sure about. 

As long as the country where the corporation is incorporated allows US entities to sue their government, then the foreign entities (cruise lines) can sue the US government.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

As long as the country where the corporation is incorporated allows US entities to sue their government, then the foreign entities (cruise lines) can sue the US government.

 

Ok I see - so it's a matter of reciprocity - that makes sense. 

[Sunshine3601]

20 hours ago, ZoeyVictoria said:

I have the Mariner booked for January 11, because a comped casino cruise on the Harmony in November was canceled and changing to January/February on the Mariner or Navigator were the only options.  I also have a comped casino cruise on December 7 and expect the same limits on rebooking, when/if it is cancelled.   I would like to add the Mariner 3-night on January 15 to make a B2B, but I am afraid to at this time.  I know this is a fluid situation and they are making a lot of difficult decisions, but the uncertainty is really getting old after eight months.

Yes, there is a lot of uncertainty.    The cruise lines have been trying everything possible to get restarted.       I have a 12 night casino comp for December 6th or 7th and I know that will be cancelled which is very sad as 12 night comp is unheard of but it was their offer back in april or may so I jumped on it.    

 

Based on everything the cruise lines have to do.... set up the housing agreements / medical facilities agreements, set up labs on the ships, fly crew in, have them pass 28 day requirement, get various inspections and certifications done by CDC and USC and do test "simulated" cruise(s).     I just don't see that all being done and approved by January.     

 

I would be prepared to be disappointed for January sailings.    

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

On the 1st and 2nd page of the 40 page of the CDC Conditional Sail Order, it states that ships need to build onboard laboratories.  This might take a while and while they are building them, they will need to use outside testing. 

I wonder how much RCL will charge us for all this testing.   I am sure the expense of setting up and purchase the equipment will be passed onto us somehow.

[livingonthebeach]

1 minute ago, Sunshine3601 said:

I wonder how much RCL will charge us for all this testing.   I am sure the expense of setting up and purchase the equipment will be passed onto us somehow.

 

For sure, there will be lots of additional expenses pertaining to the CSO on top of lost revenue due to not being able to sail for almost a full year.  How they plan to recoup that without having to increase fares will be nothing short of a miracle. 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

On the 1st and 2nd page of the 40 page of the CDC Conditional Sail Order, it states that ships need to build onboard laboratories.  This might take a while and while they are building them, they will need to use outside testing. 

That's not how I read it.  It says that the ship must have "rapid RT-PCR point of care" equipment.  This is the "quick-test".  And it is for symptomatic pax and crew.  It requires lab quality testing for embarking pax, disembarking pax, and weekly for crew, but this must be at an approved lab, not onboard.