d9704011 Posted November 30, 2020 #526 Share Posted November 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, Tree_skier said: I'm sure my sarcasm was a little to subtle for you. I'll try harder to be less obtuse. 40,250 children go missing in Canada every year but you wouldn't know that because the media hasn't told you to be scared for your children yet. Geez Louise, tell the whole story will ya! It’s tragic that over 40,00 children go missing every year in Canada but the RCMP reports that approximately 500 of them remain missing after 12 months. As usual, the cherry-picked, incomplete data you’ve chosen to push an agenda of some sort doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogimax Posted November 30, 2020 #527 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, firefly333 said: It's about the teachers demands, not about kids good. I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions. However, they are also human beings. Many are over 60, many have medical conditions. Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents. Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly333 Posted November 30, 2020 #528 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, yogimax said: I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions. However, they are also human beings. Many are over 60, many have medical conditions. Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents. Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes. But yet we dont make people do virtual grocery shopping. And it's been taken to some extremes. At one time teachers on zoom here were told to wear masks to set a example. Also teachers here refused to go in even at schools that were not virtual. TV news showed kids sitting all day at a computer in the library while teachers stayed home. Parents werent happy. Some children dont learn well sitting at a computer. The poorest families seem to be hit the worst. I know teachers are afraid too, but its hurting our kids. Maybe hire some of each, zoom from home at a lower salary, and a bonus for in person. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukee Eight Posted November 30, 2020 #529 Share Posted November 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, yogimax said: I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions. However, they are also human beings. Many are over 60, many have medical conditions. Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents. Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes. Does everyone live together in NY? You support unions too? I was out of the house and in boot camp just two weeks after high school graduation. Never returned to Mom/Dad to live. My brothers followed as well, but college for them. I got my college during and after Army. M8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pratique Posted November 30, 2020 #530 Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, yogimax said: I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions. However, they are also human beings. Many are over 60, many have medical conditions. Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents. Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes. Agreed. I teach grad students part time in person for next to nothing, no union. I could just say it's not worth it and quit, but then I'd be putting someone else at risk (assuming they find someone else who's qualified, it's not like teaching grade school) not to mention letting the students down through no fault of their own. The Covid protocols seem to be working well for us but it requires a high degree of cooperation and discipline from everyone including limiting contact with others outside our spheres. It's a huge, long-duration ask. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BND Posted November 30, 2020 #531 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 hours ago, broberts said: Utter nonsense. I have not seen any reports of deaths from rabid squirrel bites this year. 59,000 people die of rabies worldwide every year. Mostly from bats, but hey, bats are just squirrels with wings. They're all rodents. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9704011 Posted November 30, 2020 #532 Share Posted November 30, 2020 45 minutes ago, BND said: 59,000 people die of rabies worldwide every year. Mostly from bats, but hey, bats are just squirrels with wings. They're all rodents. Bats aren’t rodents..... But I think I see your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BND Posted November 30, 2020 #533 Share Posted November 30, 2020 59 minutes ago, d9704011 said: Bats aren’t rodents..... But I think I see your point. I know. Just making a point lol. Bats are actually useful, unlike rodents, as long as they aren't rabid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly333 Posted November 30, 2020 #534 Share Posted November 30, 2020 FDA says it will take weeks, not days to approve, once they perhaps meet on the 10th, but wouldnt confirm their meeting on the 10th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted November 30, 2020 #535 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, d9704011 said: Geez Louise, tell the whole story will ya! It’s tragic that over 40,00 children go missing every year in Canada but the RCMP reports that approximately 500 of them remain missing after 12 months. As usual, the cherry-picked, incomplete data you’ve chosen to push an agenda of some sort doesn’t hold up to much scrutiny. Geez Louise, not cherry picking at all just trying to understand the logic behind the fear mongering. So I should assume you are not afraid of your children/grandchildren going missing as long as they are returned to within 12 months? The probability of your child/grandchild going missing for any period of time is exponentially greater than their risk to covid. That is absolute fact, not cherry picked data. You just don't like it that's all because it doesn't support your bias'd presupposition. My data is very, very complete. The CDC calculates and the WHO concurs the IFR at... 0-19 years: 0.00003 20-49 years: 0.0002 50-69 years: 0.005 70+ years: 0.054 In spite of that I'm supposed to accept the schools being closed, businesses being driven to bankruptcy and a 50% increase in Opioid overdose deaths. In BC this year the increase in those who died as a result of overdose since mid-March has doubled. The total increase in overdose death, since the beginning of the covid restriction, is three times that of those who died with covid. As an additional little fact you don't care about... the average age of those deaths is half of that of Covid deaths. I believe with every fibre of my being in protecting the vulnerable. I just don't think that the only vulnerable are in LTC homes and 83 years old. Public health decisions have to take into account the consequence of their decisions not just what CNN tells them to think. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretts173 Posted November 30, 2020 #536 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 hours ago, Tree_skier said: I'm sure my sarcasm was a little to subtle for you. I'll try harder to be less obtuse. 40,250 children go missing in Canada every year but you wouldn't know that because the media hasn't told you to be scared for your children yet. And way more sets of keys. But wow they usually turn up. Once your dead no coming back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare S.A.M.J.R. Posted November 30, 2020 #537 Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, Tree_skier said: My data is very, very complete. The CDC calculates and the WHO concurs the IFR at... 0-19 years: 0.00003 20-49 years: 0.0002 50-69 years: 0.005 70+ years: 0.054 But is it out of date? Since you don't provide a link for your data, I had to go find it myself. I found this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html. It has the exact same numbers you post, but under the "Current Best Estimate" table, and the date is listed as "Last Updated: September 10, 2020" If you're only going to post part of the table, isn't that the definition of "cherry picking"? Here's the complete table: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #538 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, bretts173 said: And way more sets of keys. But wow they usually turn up. Once your dead no coming back. Yeah and there is no long term consequence to a child being abducted. It's just like losing keys, easily replaced at the little kiosk down at the mall. Edited December 1, 2020 by Tree_skier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #539 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said: But is it out of date? Since you don't provide a link for your data, I had to go find it myself. I found this: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html. It has the exact same numbers you post, but under the "Current Best Estimate" table, and the date is listed as "Last Updated: September 10, 2020" If you're only going to post part of the table, isn't that the definition of "cherry picking"? Here's the complete table: I'm not cherry picking I'm posting the most current publicly available data. Do you think the data has changed substantially since that time? Of course it hasn't or the CDC or WHO would update the data. This is the most current data. If you have data from the CDC or WHO or similar Public health body that contradicts this by all means post it. Edited December 1, 2020 by Tree_skier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandgeezer Posted December 1, 2020 #540 Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, yogimax said: I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, teachers are easy targets as are their unions. However, they are also human beings. Many are over 60, many have medical conditions. Like most people, they have vulnerable parents and grandparents. Yes, it's easy to take cheap shot at teachers, but harder to put ourselves in their shoes. I agree. When it comes to cruising, the people with these conditions are told to stay home if you are afraid, let those who want to, cruise. Now the message being sent to these people are suck it up and go do your job, if you die, you were going to die soon anyway. Teachers and other people of high risk, stay home if that’s what feels best for you. You owe nobody anything, take care of yourself and loved ones. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare S.A.M.J.R. Posted December 1, 2020 #541 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Tree_skier said: I'm not cherry picking I'm posting the most current publicly available data. Do you think the data has changed substantially since that time? Of course it hasn't or the CDC or WHO would update the data. This is the most current data. If you have data from the CDC or WHO or similar Public health body that contradicts this by all means post it. If you think only posting one part of a chart isn't "cherry picking", I don't know what to tell you. Heck, you even misrepresented the data. The numbers you grabbed were the "best case scenario", NOT what is actually happening, which is what you claimed. And yes, I would think the data has changed substantially since that time. It could actually be for the better, since we're now at about a 2% fatality rate vs the 5-10% at the beginning. Edited December 1, 2020 by S.A.M.J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #542 Share Posted December 1, 2020 1 minute ago, S.A.M.J.R. said: If you think only posting one part of a chart isn't "cherry picking", I don't know what to tell you. And yes, I would think the data has changed substantially since that time. It could actually be for the better, since we're now at about a 2% fatality rate vs the 5-10% at the beginning. In what way does the additional data you posted change the context of what I stated originally? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare S.A.M.J.R. Posted December 1, 2020 #543 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Just now, Tree_skier said: In what way does the additional data you posted change the context of what I stated originally? I went back and edited my post, but to make it easy for you, the numbers in the chart that you used show the BEST CASE SCENARIO. You presented the numbers as that's what is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #544 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said: I went back and edited my post, but to make it easy for you, the numbers in the chart that you used show the BEST CASE SCENARIO. You presented the numbers as that's what is happening. Sorry you need to read your post again. You posted best estimate and best case. My numbers come from the best estimate column (most likely) scenario. Again, what context is missing by summarizing the most likely scenario. Also, I don't need you to make the data easier for me. Simply read the words. They have meaning. Edited December 1, 2020 by Tree_skier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare broberts Posted December 1, 2020 #545 Share Posted December 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Tree_skier said: just trying to understand the logic behind the fear mongering. More than 1,000,000 dead from the disease in less than a year. That is not fear mongering, it is fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firefly333 Posted December 1, 2020 #546 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tree_skier said: In spite of that I'm supposed to accept the schools being closed, businesses being driven to bankruptcy and a 50% increase in Opioid overdose deaths. In BC this year the increase in those who died as a result of overdose since mid-March has doubled. The total increase in overdose death, since the beginning of the covid restriction, is three times that of those who died with covid. As an additional little fact you don't care about... the average age of those deaths is half of that of Covid deaths. Our murder rate is way up, as is our suicide rate and abuse. We had 7 child abuse cases in one week, more than the whole previous year. Apparently locking up some parents with their kids the parents stress out and take it out on their kids. Not every parent here can teach. They made all the teachers here learn spanish to talk to the immigrant parents who dont speak English. Our border towns like el paso have no hospital beds. Even some PTSD cases from the stress. I dont think locking kids up is healthy. Even me, I feel stressed. I can walk around the block or a park outdoors. They are calling it covid fatigue. I got it myself. We go into stricter lock downs if we have 7 days in a row of 15% covid beds, today was day 4, thursday if beds dont drop we quit extra things like chemo, has to be emergency. More lock downs coming after Thursday. My dad still cant get his pacemaker battery tested at his heart doctor, other things. Now that faucci also said kids should be in school some listening, before when it was said was political they said and ignored., dumb letting kids suffer Kroger and some grocery stores paid workers a front line bonus a few times. That's what I suggested for teachers who teach in person. Edited December 1, 2020 by firefly333 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #547 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, broberts said: More than 1,000,000 dead from the disease in less than a year. That is not fear mongering, it is fact. Dead with the disease not from it. Very different metric. 480,000 people die from smoking every single year yet it is sold all across Canada and the United States and heavily taxed to fund government coffers. I think it is significant that you parsed one line from my post and then replied with an emotive post further supporting my fear mongering premise. 58,389,000 people die every year. That proves nothing. Edited December 1, 2020 by Tree_skier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONECRUISER Posted December 1, 2020 #548 Share Posted December 1, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said: Does everyone live together in NY? You support unions too? I was out of the house and in boot camp just two weeks after high school graduation. Never returned to Mom/Dad to live. My brothers followed as well, but college for them. I got my college during and after Army. M8 Same here, joined ARMY at 16. Best decision ever made... My 11yr old Grand Daughter was on Computer only 3hrs a Day first couple months, now up to almost 6 but Teacher is trying handle 44 kids online at same time. Fortunately my Grand D is Intelligent and self motivated but going from Gifted Program and now OL in reg Class shes just bored. Step Mom was Teacher, retired 2yrs ago, She agrees kids need be in school Edited December 1, 2020 by ONECRUISER 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Tree_skier Posted December 1, 2020 #549 Share Posted December 1, 2020 25 minutes ago, firefly333 said: Our murder rate is way up, as is our suicide rate and abuse. We had 7 child abuse cases in one week, more than the whole previous year. Apparently locking up some parents with their kids the parents stress out and take it out on their kids. Not every parent here can teach. They made all the teachers here learn spanish to talk to the immigrant parents who dont speak English. Our border towns like el paso have no hospital beds. Even some PTSD cases from the stress. I dont think locking kids up is healthy. Even me, I feel stressed. I can walk around the block or a park outdoors. They are calling it covid fatigue. I got it myself. We go into stricter lock downs if we have 7 days in a row of 15% covid beds, today was day 4, thursday if beds dont drop we quit extra things like chemo, has to be emergency. More lock downs coming after Thursday. My dad still cant get his pacemaker battery tested at his heart doctor, other things. Now that faucci also said kids should be in school some listening, before when it was said was political they said and ignored., dumb letting kids suffer Kroger and some grocery stores paid workers a front line bonus a few times. That's what I suggested for teachers who teach in person. I work with and around at risk people. These public health measures have been utterly catastrophic for community members on the margins of society and have done for more damage than good. I deal with the carnage on a daily basis. I post very little personal information on CC for a reason, I have no interest in telling sad stories to try evoke an emotional response. If people are incapable of looking at the data, critically analyzing the consequences of decisions and adjusting their views accordingly I'm sure I have no answer for their cognitive dissonance. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yogimax Posted December 1, 2020 #550 Share Posted December 1, 2020 6 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said: Does everyone live together in NY? I have no idea what your point is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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