90% effective vaccine EVEN without booster shot...

[Milwaukee Eight]

17 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Would you provide links to the data please?

 

Staying away from old people is a good first step. How do you know that those with whom you interact follow the same rule? How do you know that people with whom you interact don't have a serious, possibly undiagnosed risk factors?

 

Is death the only worry? Do you not care if you put an under 50 in the hospital or otherwise cause them to lose a month or more of work? Or if they do it to you?

Be responsible for yourself.  We are. 
 

M8

[A&L_Ont]

11 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Be responsible for yourself.  We are. 
 

M8

I agree.  The unfortunate part, there are not enough that take the same precautions as you. 

[Ocean Boy]

10 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Be responsible for yourself.  We are. 
 

M8

You can say that until you are blue in the face. People won't get it or understand what that even means. They see it as selfish, self centered, and uncaring. In fact, it is the ones who want everyone else to look out for them who are selfish, self centered, and uncaring.

[HBE4]

55 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

I agree.  The unfortunate part, there are not enough that take the same precautions as you. 

 

And that's the catch-22 of all this.  With a highly contagious disease that is very easily transmitted, looking out for just for yourself is not enough.  You have to take others into account and expect others to take you into account. Otherwise, basic safety precautions just won't work. 

 

Imagine being the only sober person in a bar full of drunks. You all leave at the same and get in your cars to drive home. Do you feel safe because you looked at for just yourself, while surrounded by a 100 drunk drivers all leaving the parking lot at the same time? I guess it's selfish me to expect others to be responsible.

 

Boggles the mind that people that should know better still haven't realized this.

[A&L_Ont]

16 minutes ago, HBE4 said:

Boggles the mind that people that should know better still haven't realized this.

That is why I made my comment. More people need to come around to this realization.

[mek]

1 hour ago, Ocean Boy said:

You can say that until you are blue in the face. People won't get it or understand what that even means. They see it as selfish, self centered, and uncaring. In fact, it is the ones who want everyone else to look out for them who are selfish, self centered, and uncaring.

Couldn't agree more.

[HBE4]

33 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

That is why I made my comment. More people need to come around to this realization.

 

Thank you.

 

Just wanted to add that my comments were not directed at you personally.  I was just using your post as a jumping off point for my general rant.🙂

Edited December 11, 2020 by HBE4

[Milwaukee Eight]

2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

You can say that until you are blue in the face. People won't get it or understand what that even means. They see it as selfish, self centered, and uncaring. In fact, it is the ones who want everyone else to look out for them who are selfish, self centered, and uncaring.

You say it so much better than I do. 
 

We wear our mask where appropriate. If you’re vulnerable, stay out of situations that might infect you.  Many of those complaining are retired, not working, and could care less about those that need to work. Families need kids in school. 

Be responsible for YOURSELF!!

My two cents

Thanks

Edited December 11, 2020 by Milwaukee Eight

[Milwaukee Eight]

1 hour ago, HBE4 said:

 

And that's the catch-22 of all this.  With a highly contagious disease that is very easily transmitted, looking out for just for yourself is not enough.  You have to take others into account and expect others to take you into account. Otherwise, basic safety precautions just won't work. 

 

Imagine being the only sober person in a bar full of drunks. You all leave at the same and get in your cars to drive home. Do you feel safe because you looked at for just yourself, while surrounded by a 100 drunk drivers all leaving the parking lot at the same time? I guess it's selfish me to expect others to be responsible.

 

Boggles the mind that people that should know better still haven't realized this.

That’s a really poor comparison. If you are responsible for yourself, you’re not likely to get the virus. 

[Bobal]

12 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

That’s a really poor comparison. If you are responsible for yourself, you’re not likely to get the virus. 

 

Whilst I generally see what you're trying to say I think this statement is far too broad a generalisation. No matter how responsible you are for yourself the virus can and does slip through the very best precautions. Perhaps your buddy @grapau27 might like to comment on this

Edited December 11, 2020 by Bobal

[Milwaukee Eight]

4 minutes ago, Bobal said:

 

Whilst I generally see what you're trying to say I think this statement is far too broad a generalisation. No matter how responsible you are for yourself the virus can and does slip through the very best precautions. Perhaps your buddy @grapau27 might like to comment on this

Yes. I don’t know the specifics other than I think he said he got it eye exam or something like that??  Maybe he may explain more. Was staff masked up as well as himself?  What Procedures where staff following?  Temp checks/hand sanitizing? Was it in an area with high positive rates??  Maybe was an eye exam??  
 

M8

[BND]

6 hours ago, Bloodgem said:

Encouraging news about the Pfizer vaccine being recommended to the FDA for emergency approval.

 

I hope the FDA do approve Pfizer for you guys/gals. 

It will get approved.  The FDA just needs to appear to be looking at it better/longer/more intently.  It's just some grandstanding.  One of those that voted against it did so because she didn't like the fact 16-17 year olds could make their own decision about the vaccine.  Seriously?  They can get birth control without parental consent (including hormonal which has side effects) so why not decide for themselves about the vaccine?

[yogimax]

3 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Be responsible for yourself.  We are. 

 

Just curious.  How many times have you posted the exact or similar words?

[BND]

3 hours ago, Tippyton said:

Me too.  I get pooh-poohed here all the time by folks who offer nothing but barbs and jabs and unsupportable drivel.  You speak the truth which for some reason is so hard for people to swallow.  I have said now that in a generation everybody will be able to recognize Covid kids.  Pandemics and lockdowns are a human construct,  not a natural phenomenon.  There are a bunch of unhealthy people in first-world countries who do not take care of themselves, and this virus takes the old and the weak - the harvesting effect.  Most here would be shocked if they saw the data stratified by age, co-morbidities, race, and gender.  They've been had. 

 

Why bring race into this?  Vitamin D, that's why.  There's nothing more racist than keeping information from people who need it the most (search "Vitamin D Race Covid).  You would be amazed how many people of color have no clue about Vitamin D.  Why is there zero talk about it when there is so much data to support the fact there is strong correlation between Vitamin D levels and Covid severity?  That is the biggest Covid crime.

 

I can rant too.  

Even kids in wealthy areas are getting the short end of the stick.  A whole generation is going to fall behind.  I live in what is always either the #1 or #2 wealthiest county in the country.  Parents are burned out, kids are falling through the cracks, even in the wealthiest families.  But, we, like every other county in the US have our share of poor families and those kids and their parents are having real issues beyond school.  People who are disadvantaged, even through their own poor choices are at much higher risk, but the risk is impacting everyone.  Businesses, students, etc.  Our county decided last night to go back to 100% virtual learning, even though there are very, very few cases among students and those were not spread through school.  Even among staff, it isn't that high. They had gotten back to K-5th grade going to class two days a week.  It's a knee jerk reaction to the "numbers" which in reality are impacting the old and infirm, not the young.  Not one single person in our county under 40 has died from Covid and only one 40-49 and the hospitalizations are really among the older and those with severe co-morbidities.  The news drives me crazy going and looking for the absolute worse case scenarios to show, the rare 30 yr old who dies for example.  They pretty much ignore those same age groups when there are flu deaths every year, even though there are deaths.   What I find interesting and somewhat ironic is they announce that the numbers are high, people need to stay home, etc so we're going virtual with school and limiting get togethers starting Monday, not today, but Monday. If it is so bad, why wait til Monday?

 

As for Vitamin D, I know mine has been low so I take it every day.  There is a lot of evidence that people who have normal levels of Vitamin D do very, very well when they get Covid and are a lot less likely to have severe symptoms and by a large percentage.  As for those minorities of color who don't know, they are also more likely to have lower levels.  Between being told to not get much sun and the fact, the more melanin, the harder it is to synthesize it to make D and not necessarily getting tested for it, it is an issue.  

 

As for the data, it is very telling if people would just go look at it beyond the "total" number they are being fed.  Just based on my county, by far the vast majority of deaths have been in the 80+ age group. If you combine all the deaths below 80, the total is less than over 80 from deaths "with" Covid, most of who were already in long term care because they had other major or terminal health issues.  Out county currently has 28 people hospitalized and that's between two hospitals and that doesn't mean in ICU, it just means hospitalized with Covid.  Not bursting at the seams. A few weeks ago, my husband's Dr told him that the bigger level III trauma hospital here had 2 people in ICU with Covid.   If you notice, when they talk on the news about overwhelmed hospitals, it's usually small hospitals that aren't equipped for the vast majority of major illnesses normally and don't have a lot of ICU beds to begin with.  My parents are 83 and taking precautions.  None of their friends have caught it and they all live independently. It's much more likely for those in facilities than out of them.  Okay, off my soap box.  

[Milwaukee Eight]

9 minutes ago, yogimax said:

Just curious.  How many times have you posted the exact or similar words?

Each time someone suggests others need to be responsible for you. 😁

 

How many times have you suggested others need to be responsible for you 😎

 

M8

[yogimax]

1 minute ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Each time someone suggests others need to be responsible for you. 😁

 

How many times have you suggested others need to be responsible for you 😎

 

M8

What I (constantly) say is that in addition to being responsible for ourselves, we also should be responsible for others.

 

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself."  If I truly love my neighbor, I will do all I can to keep them healthy.

 

 

[HBE4]

1 hour ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

That’s a really poor comparison. If you are responsible for yourself, you’re not likely to get the virus. 

 

It might not be a great comparison, but I wouldn't say its "really poor". Ha!

 

I do agree with you. But there still needs to be greater buy in. Still too many irresponsible people around us that can  negate any precautions you and I are taking.  But I do what I can and hope for the best. I just wish others would as well. I don't see that as selfish or expecting others to take care of me.

 

EDIT TO ADD:  Just my thoughts. I know others feel differently.

Edited December 11, 2020 by HBE4

[TheMastodon]

20 hours ago, broberts said:

 

Would you provide links to the data please?

 

Staying away from old people is a good first step. How do you know that those with whom you interact follow the same rule? How do you know that people with whom you interact don't have a serious, possibly undiagnosed risk factors?

 

Is death the only worry? Do you not care if you put an under 50 in the hospital or otherwise cause them to lose a month or more of work? Or if they do it to you?

 

Sure

 

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02483-2#:~:text=For every 1%2C000 people infected,die — more men than women.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/14/us/opioids-car-crash-guns.html#:~:text=The chances of dying in,cancer (one in seven).

 

1.) I don't know if the follow the same rules as I and honestly don't care - I can't control that (even though you would love to)

 

2.) I also don't know if someone walking around has an undiagnosed illness.   Many of those people could have perhaps discovered an undiagnosed illness if our hospitals would have stayed open for routine checkups, etc.  But, lockdowns!  Cancers don't stop just because Covid19 is here.  

 

3.) Death is not the only worry, but it's a big one.

 

4.) Do I care if I put someone in the hospital? That would definitely not be a great feeling.  When I get Covid I will make sure to get in touch with you so you can handle the contract tracing ok?  I wear mask, respect space, and assume all others out and about have assumed the risks of being out and about during a pandemic.  

 

5.) Ah if someone infects me.  Well, I wear a mask - good start right?  I'm young, extremely healthy, VitD/VitC/Zinc intake is HIGH, solid diet, etc.  My chances of being hospitalized are pretty slim.  In fact, I probably wouldn't show symptoms (maybe a runny nose? is this a cold?  I don't know!) .  I might have already had it?  In fact, i'll book an antibody test today to find out! 

 

Healthy people under 50 rarely die of Covid19 - thats a fact.  More than half of Covid19 related deaths are ages 75+ . See snapshot from CDC - link for further investigation if you want.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm#AgeAndSex

 

Hospitalization rates per 100,000 - 

 

statista.com/statistics/1122354/covid-19-us-hospital-rate-by-age/

 

As far as giving it to someone else - I endorse mask wearing to slow the spread and wear a proper mask that actually doesn't let particles out.  Masks work right?  I do my best to stay away from others when in public.  I respect the personal space of employees at all establishment (doesn't really matter - its airborne 6 ft won't do much to protect you)  

 

Whats you situation?  Any skin in the game right now?  Is Home Depot is safer than a clothing retail store?  What is essential and none essential to you?   Have you researched the 1918 Spanish Flu (it killed every demographic)  Kids in school?  Are teachers essential?  I hear they are filming the new spider man movie in an EMPTY inner city school in Atlanta - makes sense!  Hey kids, good luck learning from home - we are renting our school so an entire production team can film this exciting new Spider Man movie!  Don't worry - I'm sure they are social distancing! 

 

"Cause someone to loose a month of work" Are you serious?  What have lockdowns done?  Uh, caused a little more than loosing a month of work.   

 

I am not the person you think I am - just being realistic about things.  Most people are doing what we are being told to do (ME INCLUDED).  I'm sorry that it's not really working - its a virus - nature always wins.  My grandma lives in assisted living in So Cal - I love her to death and am afraid she is going to get Covid19.  

 

  Here is something that might make us feel better about the future. 

 

https://covid19-projections.com/path-to-herd-immunity/

 

 

 

[Tippyton]

1 hour ago, BND said:

Even kids in wealthy areas are getting the short end of the stick.  A whole generation is going to fall behind.  I live in what is always either the #1 or #2 wealthiest county in the country.  Parents are burned out, kids are falling through the cracks, even in the wealthiest families.  But, we, like every other county in the US have our share of poor families and those kids and their parents are having real issues beyond school.  People who are disadvantaged, even through their own poor choices are at much higher risk, but the risk is impacting everyone.  Businesses, students, etc.  Our county decided last night to go back to 100% virtual learning, even though there are very, very few cases among students and those were not spread through school.  Even among staff, it isn't that high. They had gotten back to K-5th grade going to class two days a week.  It's a knee jerk reaction to the "numbers" which in reality are impacting the old and infirm, not the young.  Not one single person in our county under 40 has died from Covid and only one 40-49 and the hospitalizations are really among the older and those with severe co-morbidities.  The news drives me crazy going and looking for the absolute worse case scenarios to show, the rare 30 yr old who dies for example.  They pretty much ignore those same age groups when there are flu deaths every year, even though there are deaths.   What I find interesting and somewhat ironic is they announce that the numbers are high, people need to stay home, etc so we're going virtual with school and limiting get togethers starting Monday, not today, but Monday. If it is so bad, why wait til Monday?

 

As for Vitamin D, I know mine has been low so I take it every day.  There is a lot of evidence that people who have normal levels of Vitamin D do very, very well when they get Covid and are a lot less likely to have severe symptoms and by a large percentage.  As for those minorities of color who don't know, they are also more likely to have lower levels.  Between being told to not get much sun and the fact, the more melanin, the harder it is to synthesize it to make D and not necessarily getting tested for it, it is an issue.  

 

As for the data, it is very telling if people would just go look at it beyond the "total" number they are being fed.  Just based on my county, by far the vast majority of deaths have been in the 80+ age group. If you combine all the deaths below 80, the total is less than over 80 from deaths "with" Covid, most of who were already in long term care because they had other major or terminal health issues.  Out county currently has 28 people hospitalized and that's between two hospitals and that doesn't mean in ICU, it just means hospitalized with Covid.  Not bursting at the seams. A few weeks ago, my husband's Dr told him that the bigger level III trauma hospital here had 2 people in ICU with Covid.   If you notice, when they talk on the news about overwhelmed hospitals, it's usually small hospitals that aren't equipped for the vast majority of major illnesses normally and don't have a lot of ICU beds to begin with.  My parents are 83 and taking precautions.  None of their friends have caught it and they all live independently. It's much more likely for those in facilities than out of them.  Okay, off my soap box.  

I approve this rant.👍😁❤

[broberts]

4 minutes ago, TheMastodon said:

Cause someone to loose a month of work" Are you serious?  What have lockdowns done?  Uh, caused a little more than loosing a month of work.   

 

My entire point is that if everyone did as you do, wear a mask and keep a distance, there would be no need for onerous lockdowns.

 

However congregate settings where masks could not be worn, e.g. in room dining, would still be out. Sadly some political dogma insists that providing assistance to people and business in need is anathema.

 

4 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Be responsible for yourself.  We are. 
 

M8

 

I am. Sadly that matters little. Unless I never leave my home for any reason I run the real risk of encountering those that are more interested in personal comfort than the well being of others. And before you suggest I should then make myself a prisoner I have to ask, why should bullies get their way? That seems a long way from a free society. Certainly nowhere near a society that allows the preservation of life, liberty, and the pursuit of hapiness.

[Ocean Boy]

1 hour ago, BND said:

It will get approved.  The FDA just needs to appear to be looking at it better/longer/more intently.  It's just some grandstanding.  One of those that voted against it did so because she didn't like the fact 16-17 year olds could make their own decision about the vaccine.  Seriously?  They can get birth control without parental consent (including hormonal which has side effects) so why not decide for themselves about the vaccine?

Of course it will be approved. It is a done deal. Can you imagine the backlash if they came out in opposition when England and Canada already approved it? That would make for some very entertaining TV,  not to mention a whole bunch of new threads on C.C.

[Pratique]

2 hours ago, yogimax said:

What I (constantly) say is that in addition to being responsible for ourselves, we also should be responsible for others.

 

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself."  If I truly love my neighbor, I will do all I can to keep them healthy.

 

 

I am responsible for me, my family, my friends and neighbors, my coworkers, my students, and everyone I cross paths with at the store. It isn't as hard as it sounds.

[BND]

FDA is making a decision imminently. It will be yes, but just an FYI.

[LouChamp]

Doesn't matter statistics nor cruise line protocols.  Will wait till 2022.  Not worth risk to my family