Would it make sense to get a stamp for Covid vax right on your passport.

[iancal]

Passports expire.   We use our yellow International Record of Vaccination book.  

[K32682]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Domestic travel?  In countries like the USA, Canada and Mexico that would not work except possibly with the airlines.  Even within the Schengen countries this would unlikely work.  Why?  Automobiles!  I am also doubtful that the Schengen countries would impose some kind of check on trains.   I do think its a great idea when it comes to sporting events, concerts, and other similar events where there is a reasonably way to inspect documents of the crowd as they enter a facility.  As to flying this is the easiest to handle.  In fact there could be a simple check just to enter any airport.  It could even be done with few people since an app on one's phone with a QC code could trigger an automated gate.  

 

Hank

 

At various points during the current frolic some Canadian provinces restricted access or closed their borders. Canadian maritime provinces imposed quarantine requirements on non-residents coming into the region including other Canadians. Northern territories briefly closed their borders. The province of Quebec was stopping cars and checking residency in the early days.  All of which is entirely acceptable within the various provincial emergency measures legislation. 

 

Making entry into a province conditional on proof of immunization is quite possible although perhaps not likely.  

 

 

[Hlitner]

1 minute ago, K32682 said:

 

At various points during the current frolic some Canadian provinces restricted access or closed their borders. Canadian maritime provinces imposed quarantine requirements on non-residents coming into the region including other Canadians. Northern territories briefly closed their borders. The province of Quebec was stopping cars and checking residency in the early days.  All of which is entirely acceptable within the various provincial emergency measures legislation. 

 

Making entry into a province conditional on proof of immunization is quite possible although perhaps not likely.  

 

 

I am a pro Canada person (we love to vacation in Canada) so have no personal animas with Justin or your Provincial governments.  But once the initial COVID panic wears off I wonder if Canadians are going to accept inter-Provincial travel restrictions anymore then we would accept inter-State travel restrictions.  We do have a few Governors that have already tried to restrict entry (with not much success except in Hawaii) but those kind of travel restrictions are generally seen as unAmerican.

 

During the height of COVID panic here in Pennsylvania our Governor decided to shut down all of our State run Liquor Stores (all Liquor in PA is controlled by the State).  This caused a real dilemma in my own home where we had DD, SIL, and grandchildren who had fled NYC for our home  (they stayed away from NYC from March - August).  What happened is I started to run out of booze (Bourbon, Scotch, Vodka) which made all the adults quite sad.  So one day I hopped in my car and drove the Maryland where the private Liquor Stores were well stocked and open.  At the State line (PA-MD) they had electronic signs warning me I was not allowed to enter MD unless I self-quarantined for 2 weeks!  Being the good Patriotic American and not willing to give up my rights because a single politician thought it was OK to take away rights (with no due process) I ignored that sign and went to a great booze store :).  And we all lived happily ever after (or at least as long as the booze lasted).

 

Once this COVID thing is behind us we are all going to have stories to tell our Grandchildren about the great "sacrifices" made during the COVID Pandemic.  Besides running out of booze not being able to cruise is sad indeed.

 

Hank

 

 

[K32682]

54 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I am a pro Canada person (we love to vacation in Canada) so have no personal animas with Justin or your Provincial governments.  But once the initial COVID panic wears off I wonder if Canadians are going to accept inter-Provincial travel restrictions anymore then we would accept inter-State travel restrictions.  We do have a few Governors that have already tried to restrict entry (with not much success except in Hawaii) but those kind of travel restrictions are generally seen as unAmerican.

 

During the height of COVID panic here in Pennsylvania our Governor decided to shut down all of our State run Liquor Stores (all Liquor in PA is controlled by the State).  This caused a real dilemma in my own home where we had DD, SIL, and grandchildren who had fled NYC for our home  (they stayed away from NYC from March - August).  What happened is I started to run out of booze (Bourbon, Scotch, Vodka) which made all the adults quite sad.  So one day I hopped in my car and drove the Maryland where the private Liquor Stores were well stocked and open.  At the State line (PA-MD) they had electronic signs warning me I was not allowed to enter MD unless I self-quarantined for 2 weeks!  Being the good Patriotic American and not willing to give up my rights because a single politician thought it was OK to take away rights (with no due process) I ignored that sign and went to a great booze store :).  And we all lived happily ever after (or at least as long as the booze lasted).

 

Once this COVID thing is behind us we are all going to have stories to tell our Grandchildren about the great "sacrifices" made during the COVID Pandemic.  Besides running out of booze not being able to cruise is sad indeed.

 

Hank

 

 

 

 

There have been some rumblings from some of the constitutional groups about the legality of the inter-provincial travel restrictions but so far no one has taken them to court. 

 

Ontario has state-run stores too which were thankfully declared essential at the very start of the pandemic over the objections of a few temperance types. A friend of mine remarked that he couldn't have made it through the early stages of the lockdown without Chopin and he wasn't talking about the composer. 😉

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

But once the initial COVID panic wears off I wonder if Canadians are going to accept inter-Provincial travel restrictions anymore then we would accept inter-State travel restrictions. 

 

I would expect so as the cultural traditions are quite different based on the formation of the two countries.  The independence experience was so different and gradual that perhaps the acceptance of central authority is viewed differently.  Just a guess on my part.  

 

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

few Governors that have already tried to restrict entry (with not much success except in Hawaii)

 

Once again this shows how strong physical borders make it easier to deal with COVID.  It would be an interesting study to compare how island nations fared versus those with large land borders - especially land borders that are basically open to the uncontrolled free flow of people.

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

our Governor decided to shut down all of our State run Liquor Stores (all Liquor in PA is controlled by the State).

 

Our Governor would never dream of such a thing.  Pot and booze stores have never been shut as their are designated essential services.  Even though we are in a lockdown, Strip Clubs are also able to operate in California while churches cannot hold services.

 

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

Patriotic American and not willing to give up my rights because a single politician thought it was OK to take away rights (with no due process) I ignored that sign

 

I also ignored state rules by visiting Arizona twice during the pandemic for non-essential travel.  

[Underwatr]

3 hours ago, Hlitner said:

At the State line (PA-MD) they had electronic signs warning me I was not allowed to enter MD unless I self-quarantined for 2 weeks! 

I didn't see those, at least not since late April (SO lives about 40 miles away across the MD line) but I did hear about Delaware State Police patrolling the parking lots at DE liquor stores and directing drivers with PA plates to turn around and go home.

 

If MD ever imposes restrictions on travel I might have to move to MD full-time. As it is I need to quarantine whenever I'm at home in PA or get a COVID test before returning.

[Hlitner]

16 minutes ago, Underwatr said:

I didn't see those, at least not since late April (SO lives about 40 miles away across the MD line) but I did hear about Delaware State Police patrolling the parking lots at DE liquor stores and directing drivers with PA plates to turn around and go home.

 

If MD ever imposes restrictions on travel I might have to move to MD full-time. As it is I need to quarantine whenever I'm at home in PA or get a COVID test before returning.

That electric sign was along I 83.  I had read about the Delaware cops turning around cars and I guess they had a lot of traffic from the Phila area.   That was not an issue in our part of the State.  I actually drove all the way to the Baltimore beltway because I wanted to go to the Total Wine store.  With them I could put a large order in online and just stop at the store where they would load the order into my trunk.  They laughed when they saw the PA plates and told me they had quite a few customers from our State.  About 3 weeks ago we drove I 83 down to BWI Airport and the signs were all gone.

 

Hank

[goldengirl123]

On 12/3/2020 at 2:07 AM, cbr663 said:

 

Not necessarily.  Remember that the vaccines have an effectiveness rate.  So if the effectiveness rate is 95%, then 5% will have no protection.  On a ship with 4000 people (passengers and crew) that means you can reasonably expect at least 200 people to have no protection whatsoever, even though they have received the vaccine.  I would think that there is still the potential to cause a mess.

This is what has been on my mind too. I am afraid to risk going on a cruise , thinking I am protected, and then being one of the 5% that get the virus and being quarantined in my room for my entire vacation.  Or if they don't quarantine people who have caught the virus, they will just keep spreading it to others.

I wonder if cruising will simply not go back to normal until this entire covid 19 virus ordeal is behind us.  Might we need to wait for herd immunity?  Perhaps with the vaccine, it will help us reach there sooner.  Anyone else thoughts?

[CruiserBruce]

4 minutes ago, goldengirl123 said:

This is what has been on my mind too. I am afraid to risk going on a cruise , thinking I am protected, and then being one of the 5% that get the virus and being quarantined in my room for my entire vacation.  Or if they don't quarantine people who have caught the virus, they will just keep spreading it to others.

I wonder if cruising will simply not go back to normal until this entire covid 19 virus ordeal is behind us.  Might we need to wait for herd immunity?  Perhaps with the vaccine, it will help us reach there sooner.  Anyone else thoughts?

The point of a vaccine is herd immunity...vaccine is the easiest route to herd immunity. The more people who get vaccinated, the fewer targets the bug can infect. Along with fast isolation and control of new, smaller outbreaks, the spread will not be crazy like it is today...rather, the virus runs out of steam, and can be totally eliminated. This is how every major disease outbreak has been controlled over the decades...polio, measles, small pox, etc, because not vaccine is truly 100%. The major worldwide program prior to Covid is ebola...they are making good progress in cutting the outbreaks down.

 

Statistics can be confusing...It doesn't mean in every 100 people there will be 5 who are unprotected. That statement is an average. Some groups will have near total protection, some will have less total protection. When you add in people who have actually had the bug (assuming longterm antibody life, I know, an assumption at this time), hopefully the actual number who are protected will be greater than the quoted 95%...if there is large compliance with vaccination.

[rkacruiser]

31 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

The point of a vaccine is herd immunity...vaccine is the easiest route to herd immunity. The more people who get vaccinated, the fewer targets the bug can infect. Along with fast isolation and control of new, smaller outbreaks, the spread will not be crazy like it is today...rather, the virus runs out of steam, and can be totally eliminated. This is how every major disease outbreak has been controlled over the decades...polio, measles, small pox, etc, because not vaccine is truly 100%

 

That is the expectation, I agree, with the vaccine,  But, in my mind, how long will the immunity provided by the vaccine last?  Will Covid "play" by the same "rules" as other viruses that vaccines have been able to control?  There is much we still don't know.  Yet, should one accept the vaccine when one's turn happens in 2021?  Absolutely!  

[evandbob]

I'll skip the debate and just post a link to an article from tech magazine Cnet on the OP's topic:

 

https://www.cnet.com/health/covid-19-vaccine-card-versus-coronavirus-immunity-passport-whats-the-difference/

[Hlitner]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:17 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

That is the expectation, I agree, with the vaccine,  But, in my mind, how long will the immunity provided by the vaccine last?  Will Covid "play" by the same "rules" as other viruses that vaccines have been able to control?  There is much we still don't know.  Yet, should one accept the vaccine when one's turn happens in 2021?  Absolutely!  

What you say is true.  But the reality of many vaccines is that the true length of immunity is not known until sometime after many folks have been vaccinated.  The immediate answer to this COVID emergency is to get as many folks immunized as soon as possible.  Meanwhile, there will be continuing studies (going on at the moment) to determine if and when folks will need to get boosters.  Perhaps COVID will become an annual shot maybe biannual etc.  But none of that takes away from the importance of getting COVID under control NOW.  When the first Shingles vaccine was released it was expensive (over $100) and had an efficacy rate of about 50%.  Even when it was released the experts knew it was far from perfect....but was better then no vaccine.  Within a few short years a better vaccine was developed (at lower cost) with a much higher efficacy rate.  Many of us got both vaccines :).    It was the same with Polio when much of the world got the less then perfect Salk Vaccine and about 7 years later most of us got the much better Sabin Vaccine.  

 

I do not understand this attitude of some that its OK to allow millions to die (and many more to suffer permanent morbidities) while we take years to search for a perfect vaccine or solution.  That is simply not a reasonable option.  

 

Hank  

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

What you say is true.  But the reality of many vaccines is that the true length of immunity is not known until sometime after many folks have been vaccinated.  The immediate answer to this COVID emergency is to get as many folks immunized as soon as possible.  Meanwhile, there will be continuing studies (going on at the moment) to determine if and when folks will need to get boosters.  Perhaps COVID will become an annual shot maybe biannual etc.  But none of that takes away from the importance of getting COVID under control NOW.  When the first Shingles vaccine was released it was expensive (over $100) and had an efficacy rate of about 50%.  Even when it was released the experts knew it was far from perfect....but was better then no vaccine.  Within a few short years a better vaccine was developed (at lower cost) with a much higher efficacy rate.  Many of us got both vaccines :).    It was the same with Polio when much of the world got the less then perfect Salk Vaccine and about 7 years later most of us got the much better Sabin Vaccine.  

 

I do not understand this attitude of some that its OK to allow millions to die (and many more to suffer permanent morbidities) while we take years to search for a perfect vaccine or solution.  That is simply not a reasonable option.  

 

Hank  

When people think the whole situation is a hoax, what does reasonableness have to do with their response?

[rkacruiser]

On 12/22/2020 at 9:31 AM, Hlitner said:

I do not understand this attitude of some that its OK to allow millions to die (and many more to suffer permanent morbidities) while we take years to search for a perfect vaccine or solution.  That is simply not a reasonable option.  

 

On 12/22/2020 at 10:59 AM, ontheweb said:

When people think the whole situation is a hoax, what does reasonableness have to do with their response?

 

Well stated by both of you!  That is going to be the most important issue that the 46th President of the United States and his Administration is going to have to confront at the start of their service to our Country.