The Crew Getting Vaccinated

[Cruise Raider]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

OK so they can wait.  But can the rest of us take their place?

 

I'm sure if the vaccines are not being taken, you can't just cut in line but those next in line move up on the list. 

[LGW59]

5 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

IF you made your living working in the industry, it is very important..everyone’s priority is different..

Of course it is relevant, but at what and whose expense?  I want everyone to get the vaccination, not because I want to cruise, but because I want people to be safe from this dreadful situation the entire world is enduring.  I just do not believe a vaccine should be taken from the doses any city/state/country has allocated for their own citizens.  If it means I do not cruise, I am OK with that.  The Gates Foundation (yes yes I know controversial for many) is working hard to help many of the countries where their leaders are inept and crooks and their people suffer so as a result.  Excess vaccines can be shipped to other countries, after the reasonable people in each have had the opportunity to receive.  This is not republican, democrat, US, Europe, Asia, SEA, SA, NA, it is simply humane, IMHO. 

Edited January 4, 2021 by LGW59

[JFontaine]

I have no doubt that any business will eventually be able to buy this vaccine for their employees, from somewhere. And considering the value of the vaccine to a company like RCI, I can see them paying a premium.  The poor country that sells the vaccine to them can use the proceeds to vaccinate more people in the future. Fair? Ethical? I don’t know, but if the premium proceeds helps to vaccinate more people eventually, I understand the decision.

[ipeeinthepool]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Of course it is relevant, but at what and whose expense?  I want everyone to get the vaccination, not because I want to cruise, but because I want people to be safe from this dreadful situation the entire world is enduring.  I just do not believe a vaccine should be taken from the doses any city/state/country has allocated for their own citizens.  If it means I do not cruise, I am OK with that.  The Gates Foundation (yes yes I know controversial for many) is working hard to help many of the countries where their leaders are inept and crooks and their people suffer so as a result.  Excess vaccines can be shipped to other countries, after the reasonable people in each have had the opportunity to receive.  This is not republican, democrat, US, Europe, Asia, SEA, SA, NA, it is simply humane, IMHO. 

 

Sometime around April or May there will be an excess of vaccines in the US, at that point any industry will be able to vaccinate their employees.  

Edited January 4, 2021 by ipeeinthepool

[markeb]

43 minutes ago, miched said:

The crew needs to get vaccinated.   They would be at the bottom of the list in the USA if they could get it here.   I doubt that it is readily  available in their country.   

 

It may well be available..

 

Most North Americans and Europeans forget, or don't actually realize, that the largest vaccine producer in the world is the Serum Institute of India. If you Google them, you'll find a handful of press releases over the last couple of days. They've received emergency use authorization for their production of the AstraZeneca vaccine, known as Covishield in India. They're gearing up to produce as much as 300 million doses by July. India apparently also granted emergency use (some controversy, and some confusion in the press releases I've found) to a "made in India" killed adjuvanted SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Not sure how many doses they're talking about, but this is easy technology from a production standpoint. I'd expect them to be able to crank out hundreds of millions of doses of that vaccine as well.

 

While they're reserving most of their production for use in India, the Serum Institute of India is historically one of if not the largest global supplier of vaccines, so I'd expect them to supply much of Asia, possibly the Caribbean, etc. There are certainly other countries (Japan, Australia, etc.) that will make their own, but India will supply a lot of the world, including many of the home countries of cruise ship crews.

 

 

[Ex-Airbalancer]

Interesting link 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/03/942303736/how-rich-countries-are-hoarding-the-worlds-vaccines-in-charts

[LGW59]

5 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

It may well be available..

 

Most North Americans and Europeans forget, or don't actually realize, that the largest vaccine producer in the world is the Serum Institute of India. If you Google them, you'll find a handful of press releases over the last couple of days. They've received emergency use authorization for their production of the AstraZeneca vaccine, known as Covishield in India. They're gearing up to produce as much as 300 million doses by July. India apparently also granted emergency use (some controversy, and some confusion in the press releases I've found) to a "made in India" killed adjuvanted SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Not sure how many doses they're talking about, but this is easy technology from a production standpoint. I'd expect them to be able to crank out hundreds of millions of doses of that vaccine as well.

 

While they're reserving most of their production for use in India, the Serum Institute of India is historically one of if not the largest global supplier of vaccines, so I'd expect them to supply much of Asia, possibly the Caribbean, etc. There are certainly other countries (Japan, Australia, etc.) that will make their own, but India will supply a lot of the world, including many of the home countries of cruise ship crews.

 

 

The rich countries need to share this and they CAN.  In addition to India, China has their vaccine, with a 79% efficacy rate, from what I have read is high?!?  Others on CC know better than me.  Anyway, my point is of course, each country needs to protect their people first, but then it must be shared.   

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 minutes ago, Airbalancer said:

Interesting link 

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/12/03/942303736/how-rich-countries-are-hoarding-the-worlds-vaccines-in-charts

Interesting.  I understand the moral premise that every first responder in the World should theoretically receive the opportunity to be vaccinated at a similar rate.  The reality is the EU, Canada and the US funded the vaccine research.  Bud said 

As for hoarding.  Balderdash.  The US has purchased almost exactly enough to vaccinate the 350 million people who are in the US.  The EU countries a bit more but many of those have ties to other nations.  Could not see any. hoarding.

 

[markeb]

14 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

The rich countries need to share this and they CAN.  In addition to India, China has their vaccine, with a 79% efficacy rate, from what I have read is high?!?  Others on CC know better than me.  Anyway, my point is of course, each country needs to protect their people first, but then it must be shared.   

 

Don't disagree, but if India gears up production, they'll likely outproduce the rich countries, and provide it cheaper. That's been their business model for years. It will be interesting to see how it actually pans out.

[Arizona Wildcat]

8 hours ago, phoenix_dream said:

I am glad for you that you got your vaccine - based on what I have read on the news about Florida you were very lucky indeed.  I wish our state would prioritize those 65 and older as well, but we are following CDC recommendations which puts us in the third phase😔 (as we are not 75+).. 

 

But doesn't it concern you that residency is not required?  I believe states get allocated vaccines based on population.  I am presuming the snow birds do not get counted as population?  If that is true, then there is a huge disparity.  The northern states where they live will have a surplus, and the actual residents of Florida will have to wait even longer.  Doesn't seem fair to me, unless my assumptions are incorrect.

It appears the southern states have received at least some additional allocation to account for snowbirds - although they are down about 80% here this year.  Anyone who is present can receive the vaccine.  Including undocumented immigrants and those in the several prisons Arizona operates for other states.  The media here reported the Federal Govt will handle Federal prisons.  

[Oville]

Interesting enough, here in Naples FL I have not read a thing about health care workers not getting vaccinated.  Indeed there are vaccines for those over 65 starting tomorrow with reservations required but those sold out in a nanosecond for this coming week.

About snow birds, be careful how you define them.  I am a resident of Florida but spend summers on Cape Cod.  Many other true snow birds don’t spend that much time down here but do own property and pay taxes including people from Canada.  I think it’s fair that they get vaccinated.  Those who rent from anywhere for a month or two not sure how I fell about  them jumping the line.
Personally I’m not happy that cruise lines might get special treatment but only time will tell.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Oville

[miched]

19 minutes ago, Oville said:

Interesting enough, here in Naples FL I have not read a thing about health care workers not getting vaccinated.  Indeed there are vaccines for those over 65 starting tomorrow with reservations required but those sold out in a nanosecond for this coming week.

About snow birds, be careful how you define them.  I am a resident of Florida but spend summers on Cape Cod.  Many other true snow birds don’t spend that much time down here but do own property and pay taxes including people from Canada.  I think it’s fair that they get vaccinated.  Those who rent from anywhere for a month or two not sure how I fell about  them jumping the line.
Personally I’m not happy that cruise lines might get special treatment but only time will tell.

 
I am 74 and live in MI.  People that at 65 to 75 are 1C    I guess we need to travel to FL.    I will be 75 in July and that would bump me up to 1B.  Hopefully by that time I would have had it but my wife would still be 1C 

 

I guess the vaccine distribution depends on how majority in the states voted.  

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

[miched]

3 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

Interesting.  I understand the moral premise that every first responder in the World should theoretically receive the opportunity to be vaccinated at a similar rate.  The reality is the EU, Canada and the US funded the vaccine research.  Bud said 

As for hoarding.  Balderdash.  The US has purchased almost exactly enough to vaccinate the 350 million people who are in the US.  The EU countries a bit more but many of those have ties to other nations.  Could not see any. hoarding.

 

I don’ t see the hoarding either.   There needs to be more data in relation to the population of those countries 

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, Cruise Raider said:

 

I'm sure if the vaccines are not being taken, you can't just cut in line but those next in line move up on the list. 

Cruise Raider  I was being facetious in my post.  I know the rules.

[jagoffee]

Some of you may benefit from these facts concerning vaccinations.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

 

It is interesting that Florida actually has the third highest number of vaccination in the US.  As mentioned in this report, dosages need to be held in reserve for the second shots.  Therefore the shots administered are more positive than many people realize.  Therefore Florida only has about 20% of their vaccine allocation available to administer to new subjects.  50% would be the max. That could be administered at this time.

 

I will have my shot as soon as I can get it.  I fully support the right for any individual to decline a vaccination at this point.  Maybe they are waiting for more information or realize that more vulnerable people between 65-75 years old are at a great risk of dying, therefore they are delaying.  

 

 

[PTC DAWG]

Re the Vaccine, I'm 57, in good health, if getting the Vaccine allows me to travel, cruise, etc...without being masked up 24/7...I'm all in.  Otherwise, I'll wait.  I have a friend who works in a hospital locally, and she is seeing some allergic reactions to the shot for sure.  

 

I don't see much issue with availability myself...the media scoffed at the last US Administration when they said a vaccine would be out there before the end of 2020...it was in fact out there, they are ramping up quickly....

 

[PTC DAWG]

14 hours ago, markeb said:

 

Don't disagree, but if India gears up production, they'll likely outproduce the rich countries, and provide it cheaper. That's been their business model for years. It will be interesting to see how it actually pans out.

Exactly, interesting for sure.  

[UnorigionalName]

17 hours ago, markeb said:

India apparently also granted emergency use (some controversy, and some confusion in the press releases I've found) to a "made in India" killed adjuvanted SARS-CoV-2 vaccine. Not sure how many doses they're talking about, but this is easy technology from a production standpoint. I'd expect them to be able to crank out hundreds of millions of doses of that vaccine as well.

 

 

 

The inactivated virus vaccines (like SinoVax) are not very immunogenic and requires very high numbers of virions.  They are technologically simple, but expensive to manufacture per dose.  Definitely will be cheaper to make in India vs the west, but it probably will mean heavy investments in new factories.

 

The other reason it wasn't popular in the west is due to the SARS papers showing possible vaccine associated enhancement in animal models.

 

This may not hold true for humans and SARS-COV2, but regulatory agencies like the FDA probably will want much more data to address this issue before approving that type of vaccine.

[markeb]

58 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

The inactivated virus vaccines (like SinoVax) are not very immunogenic and requires very high numbers of virions.  They are technologically simple, but expensive to manufacture per dose.  Definitely will be cheaper to make in India vs the west, but it probably will mean heavy investments in new factories.

 

The other reason it wasn't popular in the west is due to the SARS papers showing possible vaccine associated enhancement in animal models.

 

This may not hold true for humans and SARS-COV2, but regulatory agencies like the FDA probably will want much more data to address this issue before approving that type of vaccine.

 

No argument with any of that! Add to that that whole killed vaccines in general have fallen out of favor, and I have a hard time imagining one getting through regulatory hurdles in the US. If they ramp up as a producer of other vaccines from around the world, where you can better control for the amount of antigen and not deal with the ancillary crud, I don't know how much they'll make anyway. 

 

I assume they'll also look to license the technology of the mRNA vaccines, etc., and they'll likely be able to make a lot of them.

[wrk2cruise]

3 hours ago, jagoffee said:

As mentioned in this report, dosages need to be held in reserve for the second shots.  Therefore the shots administered are more positive than many people realize.

 

The way our HHS Secretary explained it was the second dose was held back at the federal level.  We got 88k doses of the first week and the the 88k matching the second dose was to be released on week3 in addition to the week 3 first dose allocation.  They weren't being held back at the state level.  That said they actually injected less than 1/2 of what they had allocated.

 

It does appear to be getting better.  My MIL who is in rehab after a hospital stay received 1st dose of Moderna yesterday.  The Assisted Living facility where she live is slated for their 1st dose next Monday.

Edited January 4, 2021 by wrk2cruise

[mom says]

43 minutes ago, markeb said:

I assume they'll also look to license the technology of the mRNA vaccines, etc., and they'll likely be able to make a lot of them.

According to the Toronto Star this morning, India has approved an EUA for the AstraZeneca vaccine. The Indian manufacturer has a licensing agreement with them already. However, given South Asia's gigantic population, I would imagine the greater majority, if not all, of their output this year would stay there. ??

[markeb]

5 minutes ago, mom says said:

According to the Toronto Star this morning, India has approved an EUA for the AstraZeneca vaccine. The Indian manufacturer has a licensing agreement with them already. However, given South Asia's gigantic population, I would imagine the greater majority, if not all, of their output this year would stay there. ??

 

Yesterday's article was something like 90% staying in India. Today it looks like the Indian government is banning exports...

 

From AP:  https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-global-trade-immunizations-india-coronavirus-pandemic-c0c881c0f07166e8fd494e078171a7cc

 

They've apparently been working with COVAX, but this would appear to slow that down quite a bit...

[jagoffee]

6 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

The way our HHS Secretary explained it was the second dose was held back at the federal level.  We got 88k doses of the first week and the the 88k matching the second dose was to be released on week3 in addition to the week 3 first dose allocation.  They weren't being held back at the state level.  That said they actually injected less than 1/2 of what they had allocated.

 

It does appear to be getting better.  My MIL who is in rehab after a hospital stay received 1st dose of Moderna yesterday.  The Assisted Living facility where she live is slated for their 1st dose next Monday.

I certainly cannot say for sure, but this is what the attached report said:

”The U.S. is managing state allocations of Pfizer and BioNTech’s vaccine,  as well as Moderna’s shot, with the goal of getting 20 million doses distributed by early January. Both vaccines require two doses taken several weeks apart. The second doses are being held in reserve until they’re ready to be administered.”

Your HHS would certainly know more than I would know, but I just wonder if they were misunderstood.  It says ready to be administered.  I would think the vaccine would need to be held back at the local level, because I believe they are starting the second session now.  It would n

be a logistics nightmare to “hold them back” in a centralized manner and then get them to the local area to be administered.

 

The good news is that almost 5 million people have been given a dose and they will be given a second dose when due. (As long as vaccine is available at their location) And more people are being vaccinated every day.  

 

 

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

I certainly cannot say for sure, but this is what the attached report said:

”The U.S. is managing state allocations of Pfizer and BioNTech’s vaccine,  as well as Moderna’s shot, with the goal of getting 20 million doses distributed by early January. Both vaccines require two doses taken several weeks apart. The second doses are being held in reserve until they’re ready to be administered.”

Your HHS would certainly know more than I would know, but I just wonder if they were misunderstood.  It says ready to be administered.  I would think the vaccine would need to be held back at the local level, because I believe they are starting the second session now.  It would n

be a logistics nightmare to “hold them back” in a centralized manner and then get them to the local area to be administered.

 

The good news is that almost 5 million people have been given a dose and they will be given a second dose when due. (As long as vaccine is available at their location) And more people are being vaccinated every day.  

 

 

but what happened to 20 million being vaccinated by end of year (2020), according to warp speed?

[Oville]

21 hours ago, miched said:

 
I am 74 and live in MI.  People that at 65 to 75 are 1C    I guess we need to travel to FL.    I will be 75 in July and that would bump me up to 1B.  Hopefully by that time I would have had it but my wife would still be 1C 

 

I guess the vaccine distribution depends on how majority in the states voted.  

 

Happy cruising 🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

I think the Florida age 65 is because of demographics not politics, at least I hope so but I might be naive as I am from Massachusetts.😉