Cruise line sponsored shore excursions only

[clo]

42 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 Since the 60's, the Baby Boom generation has largely promoted narcissism as its leading cultural norm and were able to "teach the children well!"

And the following generations have put us to shame, IMneverHO of course. I'm an older Boomer, born in '47 and Bob in 44.

[clo]

3 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

Who knows?  I'll bet a lot of today's studies goes beyond the classic reading, writing and arithmetic.  History is likely low on the list as well except in the context of critical theory discussion.

We have a grand in second or third grade. This is a great question.

[cruisemom42]

35 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Huh, again very interesting.  So what are we teaching our children these days I wonder.  I have an opinion and it isn't very positive or optimistic.  

 

8 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

Who knows?  I'll bet a lot of today's studies goes beyond the classic reading, writing and arithmetic.  History is likely low on the list as well except in the context of critical theory discussion.

 

 

Coming from a line of educators, I would still have to say that while children learn facts and theories at school, they learn culture and attitudes at home.

 

Too often parents abdicate responsibility and blame teachers for not instilling such innate things as drive, motivation, etc. But childrens' best examples, at least until their teen years, are their parents. (And after their teen years, it certainly isn't their teachers...)

 

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

I would still have to say that while children learn facts and theories at school, they learn culture and attitudes at home

 

Great point.  I just wonder about the facts and theories being taught at school these days.  With "traditional" values currently in low regard, I am also interested in the culture and attitude of the "typical" home.

 

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Too often parents abdicate responsibility and blame teachers for not instilling such innate things as drive, motivation, etc. But childrens' best examples, at least until their teen years, are their parents.

 

Another great point.  Abdication of responsibility is rampant across society today.  Many/most want someone else to fix their problems for them.  The old quaint notion of individual responsibility is just that, a quaint notion.  

[George C]

If it’s only cruise lines sponsored shore excursions we most likely will just stay on the ship , they are mostly rip-offs overcrowded and overpriced. 

[clo]

4 minutes ago, George C said:

If it’s only cruise lines sponsored shore excursions we most likely will just stay on the ship , they are mostly rip-offs overcrowded and overpriced. 

'Cept we sail for the ports so for some places we'll just get on a plane and fly there and stay longer.  We have a Baltic/Scandinavian cruise for 9/22 and would do the ship ones if that's our only choice.

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, clo said:

'Cept we sail for the ports so for some places we'll just get on a plane and fly there and stay longer.  We have a Baltic/Scandinavian cruise for 9/22 and would do the ship ones if that's our only choice.

I really feel that by 9/22 COVID will have worked it’s way through most of the world’s population - and will be on the wane, if not already in the rear view mirror.  Past pandemics for the most part have spent themselves in under 3 years - and with the vaccines coming on line now that span can reasonably be expected to be shortened.   All of 2020 was the spread, 2021 will see some more spread offset by growing immunity (by having recovered from infection or by vaccine) and the first half of 2022 should see the winding down.

[clo]

5 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

I really feel that by 9/22 COVID will have worked it’s way through most of the world’s population - and will be on the wane, if not already in the rear view mirror.

From your lips to the she-gawd's ear. That's why I canceled almost the exact same cruise for this Sept.

 

BTW, I think "herd immunity" from Dr. Fauci's lips is a figure of speech. A relative term.

[George C]

1 hour ago, clo said:

'Cept we sail for the ports so for some places we'll just get on a plane and fly there and stay longer.  We have a Baltic/Scandinavian cruise for 9/22 and would do the ship ones if that's our only choice.

I was talking more about the Caribbean which we have done over 50 times, i wouldn’t consider doing a European or any other type odd cruise with those restrictions.

[clo]

Just now, George C said:

I was talking more about the Caribbean which we have done over 50 times, i wouldn’t consider doing a European or any other type odd cruise with those restrictions.

Our first cruise in 2002 was a B2B Southern Caribbean (total of 20 days). I wouldn't go back even if they paid me. BORING. We like those "odd" ones.

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

 

 

Coming from a line of educators, I would still have to say that while children learn facts and theories at school, they learn culture and attitudes at home.

 

Too often parents abdicate responsibility and blame teachers for not instilling such innate things as drive, motivation, etc. But childrens' best examples, at least until their teen years, are their parents. (And after their teen years, it certainly isn't their teachers...)

 

 

Well said, but I think it may have been more on target before and maybe not so much now.  Maybe it is more true up to grade 12, but after that I think there are some issues with our higher education system.   And, the impact of peer pressure on young folk, which has always been a factor,  is now magnified several times via social media.  Price we pay for technology I suppose.   

 

  

[cruisemom42]

34 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Maybe it is more true up to grade 12, but after that I think there are some issues with our higher education system.

 

I'm curious -- in what way? From my perspective (aside from the too-high cost of many institutions) it works well as long as one is realistic about a good match between the student and the institution. My DS graduated from a state university a few years ago, which just happens to be one of the top 5 schools for his chosen profession (engineering). Due to in-state tuition (and actually state-paid tuition as long as a certain GPA is maintained), he received an excellent education with no debt. 

[sanger727]

10 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

My own gut is that this is why it has been so difficult to control the pandemic in the US.   Since the 60's, the Baby Boom generation has largely promoted narcissism as its leading cultural norm and were able to "teach the children well!"

 

I liked this story:

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/06/28/a-rise-in-narcissism-a-root-of-americas-crisis/

 

Authors Twenge and Campbell trace the earliest roots in narcissism back to the 1950s. The Baby Boomers were the first generation to grow up in a post-war era of greater consumer plenitude and less existential hardship. As the Baby Boomers came of age in the 1960s and 70s, the grey society of the post-war consensus had begun to vanish in favor of a more individualistic focus on self-expression and self-identity.

 

The problem is that this change in the narrative furthered henceforth. It became pronounced enough by the 1970s that Tom Wolfe in 1976 titled this “The ‘Me’ Decade”. The cohorts that were raised in the 70s and 80s—Generations X and Y—continued this trend: to the extent that one study comparing teenagers found that while only 12% of those aged 14-16 in the early 1950s agreed with the statement “I am an important person”, 77% of boys and more than 80% of girls of the same cohort by 1989 agreed with it. This evolution has accelerated since the 1990s and 2000s, with the rise of the internet and social media influencing the social milieu of the Millennials and Generation Z.

 

are you saying that I am not an important person? Hmmmf 🤔

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I'm curious -- in what way? From my perspective (aside from the too-high cost of many institutions) it works well as long as one is realistic about a good match between the student and the institution. My DS graduated from a state university a few years ago, which just happens to be one of the top 5 schools for his chosen profession (engineering). Due to in-state tuition (and actually state-paid tuition as long as a certain GPA is maintained), he received an excellent education with no debt. 

 

Oh I think many if not most who are motivated and stay focused can a decent education like your DS.  Especially if provided the correct values from home.  I actually don't want to respond because I don't want to create controversy here on CC.  But I'll give one.  I think political correctness has taken on too large a role in our places of higher learning.    

Edited January 23, 2021 by ldubs

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

Oops. Pushed the wrong button.   

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by ldubs

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I really feel that by 9/22 COVID will have worked it’s way through most of the world’s population - and will be on the wane, if not already in the rear view mirror.  Past pandemics for the most part have spent themselves in under 3 years - and with the vaccines coming on line now that span can reasonably be expected to be shortened.   All of 2020 was the spread, 2021 will see some more spread offset by growing immunity (by having recovered from infection or by vaccine) and the first half of 2022 should see the winding down.

Let us hope or pray (depending on how religious you are) that your conclusion is correct.

 

And it would help if more people masked and social distanced and at least used common sense.

[SelectSys]

16 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

I really feel that by 9/22 COVID will have worked it’s way through most of the world’s population - and will be on the wane, if not already in the rear view mirror.  Past pandemics for the most part have spent themselves in under 3 years - and with the vaccines coming on line now that span can reasonably be expected to be shortened

 

Interesting point.  If this is true and COVID follows the "normal" pandemic trajectory, I wonder what the real impact of all our control measures will turn out to have been.  Perhaps we will have reduced the number of people that would have died even though it will be impossible to measure the unknowable alternative.

 

14 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I'm curious -- in what way? From my perspective (aside from the too-high cost of many institutions) it works well as long as one is realistic about a good match between the student and the institution. My DS graduated from a state university a few years ago, which just happens to be one of the top 5 schools for his chosen profession (engineering).

 

To me the main problem is that many university degrees are entirely worthless and don't prepare the student for what comes next in there lives.  I was lucky, one of my kids studied engineering and the other biochemistry.  Both came out the other side with good career prospects and are both employed.   I have no problem with other degrees such as education that also lead to something.  

 

I do have a problem with people investing $100k+ in degrees that don't prepare one for anything more than a job in retail or a restaurant and lots of debt.  Maybe 5-10% go on to grad school to perpetuate the system or become lawyers.

 

I would look at the data before deciding if university is worth the investment in time (e.g., lost wages), career prospects or foregoing other education paths (e.g., apprenticeships, trade schools).  The BLS gives one an idea if it is worth it.  You will find STEM jobs near the top.  Sales positions are also highly compensated as it's tough work.  

https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes_nat.htm

 

If someone really is passionate about studying the liberal arts or some new pseudo science, I have no problem with it.  I just think the system should be more honest with the kids and parents in terms of what comes next.  Of course like all major industries, universities are self-serving and will continue to promote the wonders of all degrees regardless of their true value.  

 

14 hours ago, sanger727 said:

are you saying that I am not an important person? Hmmmf 🤔

 

To your family and friends, I would hope so.  Will people be widely talking about your contributions after you are gone?  I always liked this sentiment-

 

“A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove... but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child.”

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by SelectSys

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

To your family and friends, I would hope so.  Will people be widely talking about your contributions after you are gone?  I always liked this sentiment-

 

“A hundred years from now it will not matter what my bank account was, the sort of house I lived in, or the kind of car I drove... but the world may be different because I was important in the life of a child.”

 

Hmmm, a bit Hallmark card-y to me. I'm not knocking the importance of being a good parent, but honestly feel that is something we should all be equipped to do via our very DNA.

 

However, I am more likely to think that a brilliant author or inventor, let's say, or the pioneer of open-heart surgery will have made more of a difference in the world.

 

[SelectSys]

10 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

Hmmm, a bit Hallmark card-y to me. I'm not knocking the importance of being a good parent, but honestly feel that is something we should all be equipped to do via our very DNA.

 

Close.  I first saw this in the shopping magazines that existed on airliners in the past.  Remember those days?  It was when I was working as a consultant and away from home all week long.  Reading that made me feel somewhat sad as it was when my kids were young and I ended up missing out on things to make money.

 

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

However, I am more likely to think that a brilliant author or inventor, let's say, or the pioneer of open-heart surgery will have made more of a difference in the world

 

That was really my original point.  The vast majority of us will not make a difference.  The best the vast majority of us can hope for is to have a positive influence on our kids/friends/colleagues.  

[clo]

13 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Let us hope or pray (depending on how religious you are) that your conclusion is correct.

 

And it would help if more people masked and social distanced and at least used common sense.

I thought this was a very interesting piece:

 

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2021/01/covid-19-will-likely-be-with-us-forever-heres-how-well-live-with-it?fbclid=IwAR2z3W3aNpFdbTjoP9DguzaLenZOJhow2N4aqj4QIYxBoOaj3tmOlQlqKp4

[donaldsc]

6 hours ago, clo said:

I thought this was a very interesting piece:

 

https://api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/science/2021/01/covid-19-will-likely-be-with-us-forever-heres-how-well-live-with-it?fbclid=IwAR2z3W3aNpFdbTjoP9DguzaLenZOJhow2N4aqj4QIYxBoOaj3tmOlQlqKp4

 

Here is an interesting thought.  Remember the black death (plague) that killed of half of Europe in the 1300's.  Here is a quote from the CDC -

 

"Globally?

Plague was first introduced into the United States in 1900. Between 1900 and 2012, 1006 confirmed or probable human plague cases occurred in the United States. Over 80% of United States plague cases have been the bubonic form. In recent decades, an average of 7 human plague cases are reported each year (range: 1-17 cases per year). Plague has occurred in people of all ages (infants up to age 96), though 50% of cases occur in people ages 12–45. Worldwide, between 1,000 and 2,000 cases each year are reported to the World Health Organization (WHO), though the true number is likely much higher."

 

It is still around and still kills people.  It is treatable but what if it mutated to a new virulent strain.  It would make Covid19 seem like a common cold.

 

DON

[JRG]

We have to get back on track here because we are talking about cruise-line-sponsored-shore excursions.

 

Most people should grasp the dilemma and why it is a dealbreaker but I caution that is is temporary and hopefully will only apply to the test cruises for US.   Its 7 day cruises and drive-to-pork passengers first I think during the testing phase and they can weather the cruise excursion bubbles.

 

The local ports will demand that cruise-ships support local vendors once the test cruises are over and the gravy train will get cranked up again so that PAXs can select cruise or independent tours again.   There is just too much money out there once the travelhounds are released.

 

I also think everybody wants to be able to walk or move around a port shopping district and local neighborhood too within guidelines.    

 

This issue should work itself out.

[cruisemom42]

41 minutes ago, JRG said:

Its 7 day cruises and drive-to-pork passengers first I think during the testing phase and they can weather the cruise excursion bubbles.

 

Is this what they call a Freudian typo? 🤣 

 

Not necessarily saying it applies to you, but that there definitely are some passengers I've encountered who could be well characterized like that...

[JRG]

 

20 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Is this what they call a Freudian typo? 🤣 

 

Not necessarily saying it applies to you, but that there definitely are some passengers I've encountered who could be well characterized like that...

 

Everytime I think of drive-to-port I think of drive-to-pork because of an experience we had on a Carnival ship a few years ago.

 

Some ladies had assembled at one of the larger round tables in the buffet on embarkation day.   In the middle of the table they were stockpiling various dishes from the buffet.    They then proceeded to serve themselves from this cache of casseroles and desserts.     Talk about a Ship within a Ship,  this was a Buffet within a Buffet. 

 

Also on that same cruise,   we saw two ladies from a group get in a fistfight over burgers by the poolside.    This was on embarkation day.     

 

I think that is what happens when you offer these $399 7-day cruise deals from the Florida cruiseporks,  uh, I mean cruiseports.

Edited January 25, 2021 by JRG
edited

[shipgeeks]

MSC Grandiosa just set sail yesterday for another series of Mediterranean cruises, after a holiday break.  When she did those cruises in the Fall, I followed the "live from.." posts, and was quite impressed with the reports from the excursions.  Reportedly they were very inexpensive, and quite varied, from open-top bus, regular bus, bicycle, walking tours, and more.  All small groups.

Perhaps someone on this week's cruise will be reporting, as well.