Canada extends ban.....we need US options!

[Mountainduo]

Canada has just extended it's cruise ship travel ban until Feb 28, 2022.  Disappointing.

 

We were looking seriously at a NYC-NYC cruise on Insignia in September.  Like many, we anticipate that, even with vaccinations, we will be hesitant about air travel throughout this year.  The prospect of departing and returning to by our own car was a big attraction.  It wasn't particularly about the itinerary, we just wanted to enjoy a cruise, with safe travel.  We also were thinking of a NYC-Montreal cruise, knowing we could rent a car in Montreal and drive home.

 

The Insignia was scheduled to come from Europe late summer, spend two months in New England, and then head for the Caribbean.  It would be great if Oceania still offered some revised itineraries with US ports. How about a simple NYC, Newport RI, Boston, Portland, Bar Harbor, NYC???  Or NYC, Baltimore, Norfolk, Charleston, NYC?  Or add Bermuda to the mix.   Also, I know cruise lines sometimes offer 7-day round trip cruises with Bermuda as the only port.  Boston or Baltimore could also be the home port.

 

I know they could move to the Caribbean early, but autumn is so pleasant in the Northeast, and cruises of this type would better serve the large Northeast population.

 

I really believe there is a demand for this type of "first step" back to worldwide cruising.

 

Am I alone??

[1985rz1]

5 minutes ago, Mountainduo said:

Canada has just extended it's cruise ship travel ban until Feb 28, 2022.  Disappointing.

 

We were looking seriously at a NYC-NYC cruise on Insignia in September.  Like many, we anticipate that, even with vaccinations, we will be hesitant about air travel throughout this year.  The prospect of departing and returning to by our own car was a big attraction.  It wasn't particularly about the itinerary, we just wanted to enjoy a cruise, with safe travel.  We also were thinking of a NYC-Montreal cruise, knowing we could rent a car in Montreal and drive home.

 

The Insignia was scheduled to come from Europe late summer, spend two months in New England, and then head for the Caribbean.  It would be great if Oceania still offered some revised itineraries with US ports. How about a simple NYC, Newport RI, Boston, Portland, Bar Harbor, NYC???  Or NYC, Baltimore, Norfolk, Charleston, NYC?  Or add Bermuda to the mix.   Also, I know cruise lines sometimes offer 7-day round trip cruises with Bermuda as the only port.  Boston or Baltimore could also be the home port.

 

I know they could move to the Caribbean early, but autumn is so pleasant in the Northeast, and cruises of this type would better serve the large Northeast population.

 

I really believe there is a demand for this type of "first step" back to worldwide cruising.

 

Am I alone??

It's a bit more complicated for cruise ships and it will take some time for them to figure it out.  Cruises that start and end at US ports must have at least one foreign port in its itinerary.  That's a bit hard to do in the Northeast without Canada, unless the cruise has a long itinerary to Bermuda or the Caribbean and back.  Alternatively, they can sail one way and end or begin in a foreign port. 

 

[LHT28]

Have you heard of the PVSA?

 Has the CDC given the green light for cruises out of US ports yet?

 

How about a US river cruise  I heard they might get going  ahead of the Ocean cruises

[Tranquility Base]

42 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

Cruises that start and end at US ports must have at least one foreign port in its itinerary. 

My understanding is that it's you could do a 7 day NYC return with only US ports; or 7 day Seward or Whittier return with only Alaskan ports and that this would not violate PVSA.

My understanding is that it's a crew visa / work permit employment matter.

 

Possible ?....probably not, don't know.

More expensive cruising for 2021 if it was possible ?.....absolutely.

 

The real roadblock is getting enough vaccinated crew, from low Covid risk countries, with few travel restrictions onto enough ships around the world to start meaningful cruising.

 

That is one of the main reasons I think this year is a global vaccination year, not a cruising year.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by Tranquility Base

[LHT28]

18 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

My understanding is that it's you could do a 7 day NYC return with only US ports; or 7 day Seward or Whittier return with only Alaskan ports and that this would not violate PVSA.

 

Have you read the PVSA?

 

[Sea42]

17 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

My understanding is that it's you could do a 7 day NYC return with only US ports; or 7 day Seward or Whittier return with only Alaskan ports and that this would not violate PVSA.

My understanding is that it's a crew visa / work permit employment matter.

That's not quite right. You can read more about here:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3363

[njhorseman]

10 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

My understanding is that it's you could do a 7 day NYC return with only US ports; or 7 day Seward or Whittier return with only Alaskan ports and that this would not violate PVSA.

My understanding is that it's a crew visa / work permit employment matter.

 

Possible ?....probably not, don't know.

More expensive cruising for 2021 if it was possible ?.....absolutely.

 

The real roadblock is getting enough vaccinated crew, from low Covid risk countries, with few travel restrictions onto enough ships around the world to start meaningful cruising.

 

That is one of the main reasons I think this year is a global vaccination year, not a cruising year.

 

No...your understanding is wrong in both paragraphs I highlighted in red .

 

The crew visa issue affect only cruises to nowhere, which is why although legal under the PVSA they were banned a couple of years ago. 

 

The crew visa issue is not in play on a cruise that makes a foreign port call. Instead the PVSA requirements are in play and a closed loop cruise requires a port call at a foreign port so your examples of itineraries are illegal as they include no foreign port calls. 

 

Further if a cruise starts in one US port and ends in a different US port...an open jaw cruise, a call at a distant foreign port is required. Canada, Mexico, Bermuda, the Bahamas and most of the Caribbean islands do not qualify as a distant foreign port. The closest distant foreign ports in the Caribbean are the ABC islands, Aruba, Bonaire and Curacao.

[Mountainduo]

I stand corrected.  I knew about the PVSA....I guess in my moment of disappointment I overlooked it.

 

I guess the only option is Bermuda.  I'd still be interested in a Bermuda round trip!

[Tranquility Base]

51 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The crew visa issue affect only cruises to nowhere, which is why although legal under the PVSA they were banned a couple of years ago. 

Thanks everyone.

I now understand.

[Aloha 1]

The easiest solution is a temporary suspension of the PVSA. Then only the CDC roadblock will need to end.

[KirkNC]

And then there are those pesky CDC requirements, test cruises, certification and such.  I am hearing zero on test cruises which will take a couple of months to perform.  IMO there will be little to no cruising in 2021.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

And then there are those pesky CDC requirements, test cruises, certification and such.  I am hearing zero on test cruises which will take a couple of months to perform.  IMO there will be little to no cruising in 2021.

From US ports!

 

Needs to be added to the last sentence above. Not yet ready to overlap Faucian doctrine on the world. Economic consequences still matters in some parts of the world, even if they don’t to the good Dr. Fauci. 
 

My guess is a determined cruise line will figure out a way to get its entire crew vaccinated along with requiring passenger vaccinations, if it means they can start sailing again in other parts of the world.

[GICNJC]

The CDC trial voyages will also have to visit a non US port.  The possibility for New England  cruises is to port on Saint Pierre and Miquelon (a province of France)  located just SE of Newfoundland.   However, France is currently in border lock down like Canada.

[RJB]

On 2/7/2021 at 4:56 PM, Mountainduo said:

I stand corrected.  I knew about the PVSA....I guess in my moment of disappointment I overlooked it.

 

I guess the only option is Bermuda.  I'd still be interested in a Bermuda round trip!

I love Bermuda.  Been there 3 or 4 times on land and would like to try a few days there on a cruise.  Would be a lot of fun.   Hope they can work it out from Miami. 

[njhorseman]

10 hours ago, GICNJC said:

The CDC trial voyages will also have to visit a non US port.  The possibility for New England  cruises is to port on Saint Pierre and Miquelon (a province of France)  located just SE of Newfoundland.   However, France is currently in border lock down like Canada.

There's nothing requiring test cruises to be conducted from any particular port or region. I suspect you'll see the test cruises being done from Florida and Texas to places like the Bahamas and Mexico. 

[Shawnino]

15 hours ago, GICNJC said:

The CDC trial voyages will also have to visit a non US port.  The possibility for New England  cruises is to port on Saint Pierre and Miquelon (a province of France)  located just SE of Newfoundland.   However, France is currently in border lock down like Canada.

 

DOM-TOM places like St.-Pierre, Tahiti etc. may or may not follow the rules of Metropolitan France. It's pretty fluid.

That said, I'm not sure about St.-Pierre's ability to serve proper cruise ships. Expedition ships, yes. 

[LHT28]

3 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

DOM-TOM places like St.-Pierre, Tahiti etc. may or may not follow the rules of Metropolitan France. It's pretty fluid.

That said, I'm not sure about St.-Pierre's ability to serve proper cruise ships. Expedition ships, yes. 

  Oceania ships have stopped there in the past

but maybe the larger ships  would not  be allowed

[chengkp75]

57 minutes ago, Shawnino said:

 

DOM-TOM places like St.-Pierre, Tahiti etc. may or may not follow the rules of Metropolitan France. It's pretty fluid.

That said, I'm not sure about St.-Pierre's ability to serve proper cruise ships. Expedition ships, yes. 

Actually, France has instituted stricter travel restrictions on her overseas territories.  To travel to the Miquelon Islands, you must show "compelling reason" to travel.

[stromer]

Forgive me if I missed the following point regarding stopping in Canada for US based cruises.  Why can't the ship stop in Canada (on Alaska and East coast cruises) and not allow the passengers off the ship?  Just dock and tie up and then leave a few hours later.  Of course Canada and US authorities would have to agree to this.  If this procedure could be arranged, an entire cruise season could be salvaged.  Has this topic been discussed anywhere?

Rick    

[chengkp75]

9 minutes ago, stromer said:

Forgive me if I missed the following point regarding stopping in Canada for US based cruises.  Why can't the ship stop in Canada (on Alaska and East coast cruises) and not allow the passengers off the ship?  Just dock and tie up and then leave a few hours later.  Of course Canada and US authorities would have to agree to this.  If this procedure could be arranged, an entire cruise season could be salvaged.  Has this topic been discussed anywhere?

Rick    

Well, as you say, both countries would need to agree, since "technical stops" like this are not allowed by the US per the PVSA, and the Canadian ban is on ships entering Canadian waters, not just docking at a port.

[hamrag]

10 hours ago, stromer said:

Forgive me if I missed the following point regarding stopping in Canada for US based cruises.  Why can't the ship stop in Canada (on Alaska and East coast cruises) and not allow the passengers off the ship?  Just dock and tie up and then leave a few hours later....

 

Because there is a COVID-19 pandemic.....it's really that simple!

[sitraveler]

12 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Well, as you say, both countries would need to agree, since "technical stops" like this are not allowed by the US per the PVSA, and the Canadian ban is on ships entering Canadian waters, not just docking at a port.

FWIW, we did a technical stop in Columbia on a Miami to SF cruise to comply with PVSA a few years ago. 

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, sitraveler said:

FWIW, we did a technical stop in Columbia on a Miami to SF cruise to comply with PVSA a few years ago. 

How many years ago, because the rule was changed to disallow technical stops to satisfy the PVSA requirements only relatively recently...perhaps 10 or 12 years ago.

[bigmjh]

7 hours ago, sitraveler said:

FWIW, we did a technical stop in Columbia on a Miami to SF cruise to comply with PVSA a few years ago. 

I'm sure that your MIA > SF cruise made other stops along the way that qualified as "distant" foreign ports.

[YoHoHo]

42 minutes ago, bigmjh said:

I'm sure that your MIA > SF cruise made other stops along the way that qualified as "distant" foreign ports.

 

Columbia is in South America so a distant foreign port. That is why Cartagena (Columbia) is O's usual stop on a Panama canal cruise

 

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/19/4.80a#:~:text=(3) Distant foreign port means any foreign port,vessel at the conclusion of a specific voyage.
"(1) Coastwise port means a port in the U.S., its territories, or possessions embraced within the coastwise laws.

(2) Nearby foreign port means any foreign port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao). A port in the U.S. Virgin Islands shall be treated as a nearby foreign port.

(3) Distant foreign port means any foreign port that is not a nearby port.

..."

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by YoHoHo