The EU inching toward a vaccine requirement for most travel

[navybankerteacher]

34 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

maybe someday we will be the leader in immunizing EVERYONE. As of right now we appear to only be immunizing 65+ plus in most places. That’s a far cry from EVERYONE.

"EVERYONE"  is a very big number - in every country -- and the US is closer to it than every country other than Israel and the UK. And, since those over 65 are the most likely to suffer the most, it makes sense to prioritize them.  Additionally, a number of states have broadened their pools of eligibles -- to include critical workers as well as people younger than 65.

 

As things stand now, we are already ahead of most of the world - and are on track to widen the lead

 

.  I suggest you start to inform yourself 

[sanger727]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

"EVERYONE"  is a very big number - in every country -- and the US is closer to it than every country other than Israel and the UK. And, since those over 65 are the most likely to suffer the most, it makes sense to prioritize them.  Additionally, a number of states have broadened their pools of eligibles -- to include critical workers as well as people younger than 65.

 

As things stand now, we are already ahead of most of the world - and are on track to widen the lead

 

.  I suggest you start to inform yourself 

 

I do inform myself. The US has vaccinated roughly 15% of the population. Nowhere close yet to EVERYONE. I don't disagree that will be there someday. Just not today. 

 

BTW, what I took issue with your post was your emphasizing the word EVERYONE. If you simply said the US was one of the leaders in the world in the COVID vaccine, I would agree. But we won't be one of the leaders in immunizing EVERYONE, until EVERYONE has access. I don't think that is true in any state right now. 

Edited March 2, 2021 by sanger727

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

I do inform myself. The US has vaccinated roughly 15% of the population. Nowhere close yet to EVERYONE. I don't disagree that will be there someday. Just not today. 

 

BTW, what I took issue with your post was your emphasizing the word EVERYONE. If you simply said the US was one of the leaders in the world in the COVID vaccine, I would agree. But we won't be one of the leaders in immunizing EVERYONE, until EVERYONE has access. I don't think that is true in any state right now. 

OK - so until EVERYONE is immunized, the simple fact of immunizing more people doesn’t make a society a leader?   

 

Sort of like insisting that no one is ahead in a race until someone actually crosses the finish line.

[Zach1213]

14 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Do you consider the USA a "slowest developed country" since it was so slow in responding to the crisis?  It likely fits in there somewhere.  

 

The initial response has nothing to do with the re-opening at this point, now that vaccines are going to be the go-to reopening tool for most of the first world. And as far as vaccinations goes, the USA has one of the highest rates in the world - 23.23 per 100 people, higher than any other country for which we have data except for Israel, UK, and UAE. 

 

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations 

 

The US hasn't done a great job containing spread (but also, far from the worst), but they've done a relatively great job vaccinating. 

 

Edited March 2, 2021 by Zach1213

[Hlitner]

We have predicted (for months) that proof of COVID vaccination will soon be a requirement for most International travel and cruising.  That is why I have mentioned that so-called "anti-vaxers" should plan on taking their vacations within their own country...although that might also be in question.   I think it is likely that Hawaii will eventually require proof of vaccination for visitors and there has also been some "talk" about making it a requirement for domestic air flights.    It also would not be surprising for some hotel chains to make vaccination a requirement for customers.  

 

There is already some backlash about vaccination policy.  Just in the last few days a member of the Pennsylvania State Legislature introduced a Bill making it illegal for employers to mandate vaccinations or testing.  

 

Hank

[Markanddonna]

It looks like the cruise industry is taking baby steps and that includes insisting upon a vaccine: Royal Caribbean announced Odyssey of the Seas will sail from Israel this summer and require all guests to have the vaccine.

[cruisemom42]

14 minutes ago, Markanddonna said:

It looks like the cruise industry is taking baby steps and that includes insisting upon a vaccine: Royal Caribbean announced Odyssey of the Seas will sail from Israel this summer and require all guests to have the vaccine.

 

Yes -- as I posted yesterday on this thread in post #14. 😉

[sanger727]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

OK - so until EVERYONE is immunized, the simple fact of immunizing more people doesn’t make a society a leader?   

 

Sort of like insisting that no one is ahead in a race until someone actually crosses the finish line.

 

 I didn't say until EVERYONE is immunized. I said we aren't the leader in immunizing EVERYONE until it's available to EVERYONE. We are currently the leader in immunizing seniors and some critical workers. Which is fine. I think you are taking this way to seriously. 

[ilikeanswers]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There is already some backlash about vaccination policy.  Just in the last few days a member of the Pennsylvania State Legislature introduced a Bill making it illegal for employers to mandate vaccinations or testing.  

 

If every state has different rules that is going to make travel within the US complicated😳

[Hlitner]

8 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If every state has different rules that is going to make travel within the US complicated😳

We have already had some of that when certain States had their own rules.  Just look towards Hawaii where they banned most visitors and/or required them to quarantine for 14 days.   We live in PA and at one time it was technically illegal for us to drive to New York or Mass although I do not think those questionable orders issued by governors were enforced.  

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

6 hours ago, Hlitner said:

There is already some backlash about vaccination policy.  Just in the last few days a member of the Pennsylvania State Legislature introduced a Bill making it illegal for employers to mandate vaccinations or testing.  

 

There's a big difference, though, in employers requiring vaccination of all employees and businesses requiring vaccination of potential customers. The first is quite murky in terms of legal precedent notwithstanding the EEOC ruling. (And of course tossing in that all of the COVID vaccines at the moment have emergency use authorizations, not full approvals.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

 I didn't say until EVERYONE is immunized. I said we aren't the leader in immunizing EVERYONE until it's available to EVERYONE. We are currently the leader in immunizing seniors and some critical workers. Which is fine. I think you are taking this way to seriously. 

On the contrary -- you keep returning to insist that we cannot be a  leader until we make the vaccine available to EVERYONE.   

 

In any nationwide program there has to be some system --the US has chosen a logical one by aiming to protect first those who would suffer the most if left unprotected, then those whose function is  important to the society. 

 

By your  standard, no country is a leader --- why are you so adamant in pursuing that absurd notion.?

 

But, to humor you I will ask you to name a nation which does meet your standard:   what nation is now making the vaccine available to EVERYONE (presumably equally) and is also administrating enough shots to be considered any sort of leader?

 

Please ---- give it a rest.

[sanger727]

 

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

 I didn't say until EVERYONE is immunized. I said we aren't the leader in immunizing EVERYONE until it's available to EVERYONE. We are currently the leader in immunizing seniors and some critical workers. Which is fine. I think you are taking this way to seriously. 

 

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

On the contrary -- you keep returning to insist that we cannot be a  leader until we make the vaccine available to EVERYONE.   

 

In any nationwide program there has to be some system --the US has chosen a logical one by aiming to protect first those who would suffer the most if left unprotected, then those whose function is  important to the society. 

 

By your  standard, no country is a leader --- why are you so adamant in pursuing that absurd notion.?

 

But, to humor you I will ask you to name a nation which does meet your standard:   what nation is now making the vaccine available to EVERYONE (presumably equally) and is also administrating enough shots to be considered any sort of leader?

 

Please ---- give it a rest.

 

Actually I specifically said in that we are leaders in vaccinations. Not sure why you respond to posts you don't read. As far as I know no country is currently vaccinating EVERYONE. So no one is a leader in that. 

Edited March 3, 2021 by sanger727

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, sanger727 said:

 

 

 

Actually I specifically said in that we are leaders in vaccinations. Not sure why you respond to posts you don't read. As far as I know no country is currently vaccinating EVERYONE. So no one is a leader in that. 

YAWN!

[ldubs]

On 3/1/2021 at 5:41 PM, sanger727 said:

maybe someday we will be the leader in immunizing EVERYONE. As of right now we appear to only be immunizing 65+ plus in most places. That’s a far cry from EVERYONE.

 

65+ and let's not forget the politicians, and their associates.  

[wowzz]

7 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

But, to humor you I will ask you to name a nation which does meet your standard:   what nation is now making the vaccine available to EVERYONE (presumably equally) and is also administrating enough shots to be considered any sort of leader

Does the UK qualify by making the vaccine available to every adult by the end of July 2021?

[BoozinCroozin]

I have no issue with a requirement to be vaccinated if you can be vaccinated. RCL went the right path with Odyssey in Israel. Everyone over 16 is required to be vaccinated. I hadn't read any specific details for 16 and under, but I would assume some for of regimented testing daily being required onboard. I have no issue with that either: Negative covid test within 3 days of cruise, daily temperature checks, another covid test mid-cruise, etc. This is all good for me and I would be more than willing to have my child do it.

 

As from a US perspective, it was stated by Biden that everyone that can have a vaccine will have a vaccine available by the end of May. That to me means everyone 17+ will have the opportunity to be vaccinated. It also leads me to believe that a June 1 start date is possible (no guarantee that it would happen). I would hope the CDC adopts the same protocols that Israel is doing. June could be 2-4 weeks of test cruises and sailings from their main ports in July for many ships.

Edited March 3, 2021 by BoozinCroozin

[wowzz]

Interesting to note that P&O have cancelled their entire summer schedule until the end of August. 

They will, however be running some short cruises visiting only UK ports, details yet to be announced.

[cruisemom42]

2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said:

As from a US perspective, it was stated by Biden that everyone that can have a vaccine will have a vaccine available by the end of May. That to me means everyone 17+ will have the opportunity to be vaccinated. It also leads me to believe that a June 1 start date is possible (no guarantee that it would happen).

 

People hear what they want to hear, not what was actually said. Biden's statement was that the US would "have enough doses" by May for every adult American.

 

Note: that does not mean that those doses will be shipped, distributed, and into arms by the end of May.

 

CNN's story makes it clear for those who missed the point:  "The new date does not mean all Americans would receive shots by May 31; issues with distribution and personnel mean it could take much longer for all doses to be administered."

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

13 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

People hear what they want to hear, not what was actually said. Biden's statement was that the US would "have enough doses" by May for every adult American.

 

Note: that does not mean that those doses will be shipped, distributed, and into arms by the end of May.

 

CNN's story makes it clear for those who missed the point:  "The new date does not mean all Americans would receive shots by May 31; issues with distribution and personnel mean it could take much longer for all doses to be administered."

 

 

A further variable is vaccine resistance.  If enough people do not get vaccinated, regardless of supply, the contagion can continue - allowing time for further mutation and subsequent spread, possibly reinfecting those previously recovered or immunized.

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, wowzz said:

Does the UK qualify by making the vaccine available to every adult by the end of July 2021?

The UK is to be congratulated for getting vaccines into arms and the terrific vaccine contribution from Oxford.  In the USA, if we believe the Biden administration, we should have enough vaccine by the end of May (or sometime in June) to vaccinate every adult to wants to be vaccinated.  Unfortunately that will still leave about 1/3 of our adults unprotected because most of those folks simply do not want to be vaccinated.  There is also the question of if and when any of the existing vaccines will be approved for children and young teens.

 

What I do find a little puzzling is why the EU, with all of its advanced countries and pharmaceutical companies and universities has failed to produce their own vaccine.  I expected to see something from France since they have some excellent scientists and the lack of anything from Germany is also puzzling.

 

Hank 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

I expected to see something from France since they have some excellent scientists and the lack of anything from Germany is also puzzling.

The French company, Sanofi, did produce a vaccine, but the trials went badly, and it will be at least the end of this year before any effective vaccine will be available. This failure was particularly galling to Macron, which is one of the reasons he has been so anti the Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine, leading to the dire vaccination programme in France.   

[ilikeanswers]

9 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

What I do find a little puzzling is why the EU, with all of its advanced countries and pharmaceutical companies and universities has failed to produce their own vaccine.  I expected to see something from France since they have some excellent scientists and the lack of anything from Germany is also puzzling.

 

Hank 

 

I thought BioNTech was German? 

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I thought BioNTech was German? 

good catch 🙂

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, wowzz said:

Does the UK qualify by making the vaccine available to every adult by the end of July 2021?

Hopefully they can - and the US is now shooting for the end of May — we may have the supply of vaccine —- but too many states have not yet gotten the bugs worked out of vaccine administration — making practical availability unlikely much before Fall.   Of course there are probably a few million anti-vxxers out there who will drag down the effectiveness effort.